Duel scene outcome


I know this movie isn't that rational, but anyway the duel with Jelly Roll got me a little pissed.

1900 wins by practically just hitting the keys fast enough so he can light his cigarette with a heated up wire. If I remember right it was the same piece Jelly Roll played before him, and it wasn't really a song at all. The second song by Jelly Roll was definetely superior than any by 1900, so Jelly Roll should have clearly won the duel because 1900 couldn't beat his performance.

What the hell was the thing with the heated wire anyway, who knows if Jelly Roll could've done the same. I thought it was about who's better at playing piano, in which case Jelly Roll won it hands down.

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1900 did clearly beat the second song that jelly roll played. He beat it when he recapitulated and even elaborated on jelly's version of the piece. Playing a complicated piece that you have never heard before by ear is a very hard task. The actor who played jelly role did an amazing job before he played his third song, watch how scarred he looks as 1900 plays the song. He is the only one in the room that understands how 1900 just pwned him complely. At that point Jelly knew he could not beat 1900 as far as style goes, so he played a peice that shows his technical prowess. 1900 then stepped it up a notch.

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Well, even Jelly Roll passed his verdict on the outcome when he dropped his glass. He was defeated, lost control of his reflexes, and probably sharted his pants in the process.

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I guess since everyone else is commenting on this I'll throw in my two cents, too. As someone stated here before, 1900 clearly was disinterested in the entire battle until the final song. Jelly is clearly set out to prove 1900 a fraud.

Jelly starts by proving his skill at playing soft, and 1900 openly mocks him with a rendition of Silent Night. The audience begins to wane.

Jelly is irritated so he fires back with a very popular song of his, "The Crave". This can only be an effort to display his style of music. Now 1900, presumedly having never heard this song before, replicates it perfectly. Now Jelly is openly pissed off, and the audience is nothing short of bewildered by their on-board hero.

Now the third song is where everyone seems to disagree, so I'll try to be a little more in depth. By now the audience has lost all faith in 1900, and that's what he wanted. He is the underdog now, and Jelly wants to put the final nail in his coffin. Jelly is so angry that he brings out "Fingerbreaker", an extremely technically challenging piece that he thinks should put 19 to bed. So it is evident that this final song is about technique now that Jelly has proven his softness and his style with the first two songs. It is only at this point that 19 is ready to give the knockout blow. Jelly clearly won the first two rounds, but now the gloves are off. While arriving Jelly exhorts, "I hear he plays a HOT piano!!", and 19 will make him eat those words. The song 19 plays (yes it is a song, if it wasn't it would sound like garbage) displays such advanced technique that some people here think one would need two people to play. Part way through the song Jelly drops his drink not only in defeat but we can also see him attempting to learn the finger techniques 19 is using. The audience is shocked. Hopefully this wasn't too wordy for everyone.

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I think there's another way to look at 1900's performance in the duel--he's toying with Jellyroll. He doesn't really take the duel seriously until Jellyroll insults him and pisses him off.

Watch him when he plays Silent Night. He makes faces and moves as if he's playing the most complex of pieces, which, of course, he's not. He's saying that what Jellyroll just played wasn't all that difficult.

Next he plays what Jellyroll just played, with slight embellishments, simply after hearing Jellyroll play it. He's not reading music, it's not something he's played before. Again, he's saying what his opponent just did wasn't all that hard. The audience just doesn't get it yet.

The final piece--it's not just about speed, although I think only a very experienced and talented player could pull off that kind of speed with complete accuracy. (I'm not a musician--I'm making an assumption here.) It's a complex, difficult piece to play, more difficult than what Jellyroll just played.

Lighting the cigarette has a few meanings as well. First, before Jellyroll boards the ship he says he's heard 1900 plays a "hot piano," and 1900 was on the deck of the ship listening when he said it. Second, it demonstrates just how fast he was playing/how fast the strings were moving--fast enough to create enough friction to generate heat. Also, my first thought when Jellyroll came in and set his lit cigarette on the edge of 1900's piano was that it was an insult. He wasn't respecting 1900's instrument, thereby disrespecting 1900. Then he was showing off by completing his piece before the cigarette burned out. So it's an apt bookend for 1900 to then end his performance by lighting a cigarette for Jellyroll and telling him to smoke it. Lastly, it was simple showmanship for the audience.

There are hundreds of ways this scene can be interpreted, but the main thing to bear in mind is that this film was promoted by its director as a fable. So set aside what's realistic or feasible and take it for what it is--one hell of a story.

Piano Duel Part I http://youtube.com/watch?v=4tislJu9Dls
Piano Duel Part II http://youtube.com/watch?v=BO0fmkSA80o


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I skipped the middle of this long thread, so sorry if it was already mentioned, but the person who early on said he was a pianist, and explained the duel, had two important things dead-wrong:

1: 1900's second piece was NOT exactly the same as Jelly Roll's, it was significantly better. First, It had much better "swing to it, whereas Jelly Rolls' was rather stiff & mechanical. Second, 1900 added a number of classical flourishes into it, making it more complex than Jelly Roll's version. That pissed off Jelly Roll more than anything else. The crowd simply didn't notice.


2: No chance in H#ll of anyone playing the last piece with two hands. Not even Art Tatum. You can clearly hear a two-handed rythm happening while another chord movement is happening in the upper-mid region, AND some angular chords are being hit in the treble region. Some of the chords also overlap. Gimme a break. I doubt it could be played, in real-time, by even two people, though maybe if Tatum & Howowitz played together. maybe.

-not that it matters to the film, of course.

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I think this is really simple.

1900 Wins all three times, but only Jelly Roll understands it the first and second time, whilst the audience in their ignorance don't understand that 1900 wiped the floor with Jelly Roll until he adds a bit of showmanship.

His rendition of Silent Night is beautiful, and technically perfect.

The audience even boo him after he plays the second piece FAR better than Jelly Roll (Listen to the you tube clips above, it's FAR better!)

As for the third piece, I'm sure it couldn't be played by one because I think he is playing both the Piano and Violin parts simultaneously!

1900 is a pianist NOT a showman.

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Something I haven't seen said that I thought was significant about the cigarette:

When Jelly plays his first piece, he lights his cig and sets it on the piano. When he's done, he picks it up with the ASH intact, making the point that he played not only peautifully, but playd a rag with such smoothness that he didn't shake the piano and thus the ash stayed intact.

When 1900 sets the cig on the piano on his third piece, he doesn't light it. People assume he's misinterpreting Jelly's use of the cig. But 1900 is mocking Jelly on many levels. Not only with his playing, but he's also mocking Jelly's little stunt with the cig. He sets the cig on the piano very carefully and theatrically, mocking Jelly's thatrics. He waits until he's done, and then lights the cig on the string. This proves he can indeed play a "hot" piano. The ultimate slap in the face is when he pushes the cig into Jelly's mouth and tells him to smoke it. And Jelly capitulates to this complete humiliation be taking it into his mouth as ordered by 1900.

1900 has completely undressed Jelly on every level, including his cig stunt, and Jelly knows it, as does everyone else in the room.

I just wanted to point out the ash not breaking when Jelly played, and what I though was his purpose in demonstrating that it hadn't broken.

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it was played by two people who worked on other songs on the film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNpn7ArtdOo

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Yeah - you nailed it Dr Smith.

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