Power to the workers eh? There's even an ant quoting Marx "The workers control the means of production". Is this a socialist plot to indoctrinate the youth of today?
Probably not, what do you think?
Try and be objective with your thoughts...
It appears as if there is another political element involved- Hitlerian Fascism. Mandible serves as the fascist eugenicist, hoping to cleanse the colony of "impure" ants.
sharewhy is everybody talking about comunism on the board ANTZ a movie on Diseny i havent read all of ur comments but i assure u 8 year olds wont care if there is a hint of comunism in this movie
shareI think it's reactionary to claim it's socialist. And the idea that it's a 'plot' is actually quite hilarious. If the film displays a political message, it's anti-fascist, which I think we can all agree is an important statement. And somebody else made a good point about the film also mocking the bohemian lifestyle to an extent. Politically, it's a pretty savvy film.
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No, everything pretty much went back to the way it was. Even for Z, who was NEVER happy with his place in society. "So I guess I'm right back where I started from," he concludes at the end of the movie, "but this time... I CHOSE it." None of the other ants where anywhere NEAR as individualistic as Z, so they probably went back to what they were doing too. They live in a free society now (I think), but they're just so accustomed to their usual place in life, I suppose they don't see much point in doing anything different.
And communism IS a nice idea, but it just doesn't work. Capitalism has its problems, but it's still the best economic system a government can hope to have.
actually in real life ant colonies are more like democracies with figure head monarchs. Decisions arent made at the top and passed down, they are made by each the workers.
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No, this was not a movie geared toward indoctrinating youths. I am a conservative and pro big business capitalist minded individual and I really enjoy this movie.
Folks, there is a reason why Communist ran countries have lower productivity and satisfaction rates. Not to mention rebellion and fraction. If you argue more Socialist modeled (Norway for instance), then you will have a case. Norway used to have strong Communist ideals, yet they gave them up for the more realistic Liberal / Socialist approach. Being that the more socialist oriented Norway is one of the wealthiest and desirable places to live in the world, I would say dumping Communism by their leading political party was the best move. If you look at the supposedly last great Communist country of China, they are even moving away from Communist theories.
Communism, nice idea, if it worked, but it doesn't, not on a pratical level anyway.
Capitalism, on the other is pretty aggressive (every man for himself) but it's fair, and it works.
Capitalism doesn't work that well either. If it did we wouldn't have so many extreme poverty in the world. 30 thousand people die every day in africa of hunger. The life expectancy in almost all of the African countries (exceptions: Egypt and Morocco) is below 55 years in both men and women. While on a developed country normally life expectancy is between 75-80 years old. I'm from Costa Rica, I don't need to go to africa to see poverty I see it in my own country. But here in Latin America there are countries that are suffering poverty far worst than mine (Costa Rica). For example Mexico, Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, Peru, Ecuador and Haiti all have between 25% and 50% percent of their people living with less than 2 dollars a day. None of this countries have been or will be communists and they live like sh*t. Even in the US, almost 60 million amricans don't have helath care. Capitalism is not perfect at all... it's too individualistic, and it preaches a tremendous lack of solidarity.
The best economic/political form for me, is an open economy (capitalist) with state intervention (owning production in caertain areas in a socialist way) with a high tax rate to secure the safety, health and education of all the population. A combination can absolutely work.
As for Antz, funny movie it wasn´t propaganda for anything just dealt with some politic forms that included fascism and communism.
Regards, Roberto form Costa Rica
Phht, sounds like a paranoid American, so scared of communism that any system where people work together must be considered propoganda, designed to corrupt the youth and indanger capatilism. I am watching this movie as i write this on BBC, and if anything this movie is anti-communism.
"Anyone who thinks Communism is viable governmental system is an naive, uneducated, moron."
Anyone who writes that is a naive, uneducated moron.
The Simpsons:
1989-2000
R.I.P
>>"Anyone who thinks Communism is viable governmental system is an naive, uneducated, moron."
Anyone who writes that is a naive, uneducated moron. <<
So says the naive, uneducated moron.
errr, dont get me wrong, but if 30 million people died each day in africa, there would be no humans in about 200 days. Check ur facts buddy :)
-I made a new friend today.
-Real Or Imaginary ?
-Imaginary.
Thanx bro, actually what I meant was 30 thousand people die of hunger in Africa everyday. I wrote that post months ago and I didn't realize my mistake. Fact was taken from the book "the end of poverty" by Jeffrey Sachs with figures of the World Bank. I edited the other post but thanx for the correction.
Regards, Roberto from Costa Rica.
Folks, there is a reason why Communist ran countries have lower productivity and satisfaction rates. Not to mention rebellion and fraction. If you argue more Socialist modeled (Norway for instance), then you will have a case. Norway used to have strong Communist ideals, yet they gave them up for the more realistic Liberal / Socialist approach. Being that the more socialist oriented Norway is one of the wealthiest and desirable places to live in the world, I would say dumping Communism by their leading political party was the best move. If you look at the supposedly last great Communist country of China, they are even moving away from Communist theories
Some really interesting points you make there agitatoruk.
Just a few questions for you:
In order for a population to adopt Communism do you believe there needs to be a period of socialist dictatorship to re-educate the people to the Communist point of view?
...And if so, is it possible to convert everyone to Communism?
Also, your economics on the labour market is slightly off.
Workers wage is (in laymans terms) based on the nature of the job. The more skill and training required the lower the supply of workers and therefore higher wage.
Also the condition of the labour market, if there is high unemployment then wages will be lower, if there is low unemployment wages will be higher. They are not based on "getting a wage which they decide on", they being the firm I assume.
Capitalism cannot provide work for everyone, this is an established and accepted economic understanding, the Natural Rate of Unemployment, the lowest point at which inflation is stable, is usually about 2-3% in Western Economies. Unemployement CANNOT be 0% in the long run because unstable inflation goes through the roof and causes all kinds of problems!
The problem for me, with a centrally planned economy - socialism, the stage which you must go through to get to Communism - is it removes competition, which in turn leads to rising prices for the consumer, which leads to poorer consumers. Capitalism keeps firms competitive, if they become inefficient, and their costs go up, they cannot raise their prices because no one will buy their product, as there is so much competition, so they shut down and the workers retrain in a business that IS efficient.
This brings me to free-trade. While free-trade is not global, the EU is a free trade block with over 500 million people. The USA is also a free trade area with over 300 million people; and India and China are both free trade areas both containing over 1 billion people. So there are massive free-trading blocks around the world, with more free trade blocks being created all the time as governments realise the huge long term benefit of free trade.
If you have any questions about my economics feel free to ask.
Capitalism works (but does require a bit of government intervention around the edges)!
In order for a population to adopt Communism do you believe there needs to be a period of socialist dictatorship to re-educate the people to the Communist point of view?
The problem for me, with a centrally planned economy - socialism
the stage which you must go through to get to Communism - is it removes competition, which in turn leads to rising prices for the consumer, which leads to poorer consumers. Capitalism keeps firms competitive, if they become inefficient, and their costs go up, they cannot raise their prices because no one will buy their product, as there is so much competition, so they shut down and the workers retrain in a business that IS efficient
Firstly, can you define for me the difference between Socialism and Communism, in your words.
Secondly:
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Then there is also the fact that if we're truly were all naturally selfish, greedy and competitive then how did we manage to make it this far?
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It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our necessities but of their advantages
- Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations.
The best outcome is nearly always achieved when everyone strives for their own personal benefit!
Businesses are constantly trying to improve their products and make them cheaper to beat the competition.
In the bigger scheme of things we are a selfish species, thats how we have evolved. The reason we work together so well as a society is because that was the best way for the individual to survive, by cooperation in a society.
Firstly, can you define for me the difference between Socialism and Communism, in your words
It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our necessities but of their advantages
- Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations
The best outcome is nearly always achieved when everyone strives for their own personal benefit!
My God... The original poster's comments make me so angry. I'm not a communist; am against communism. But to say that this movie is commie propaganda... What part of the terrible ant society Woody Allen's Z was trying to buck did the poster support? And what has the poster got against workers' rights and individualism?
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Haha communism is impossible, and never existed in the first place. Russia never got passed Socialism. Communism is the second step, the ideal society, the utopia. Socialism is the first. Nobody ever got past #1. All the "Communist" countries today are actually Socialist. Many people use the terms interchangeably but that is incorrect.
Karl Marx held that society could not be transformed from the capitalist mode of production to the advanced communist mode of production all at once, but required a transitional period which Marx described as the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat, the first stage of communism. The communist society Marx envisioned emerging from capitalism has never been implemented, and it remains theoretical; Marx, in fact, commented very little on what communist society would actually look like. However, the term 'Communism', especially when it is capitalized, is often used to refer to the political and economic regimes under communist parties that claimed to embody the dictatorship of the proletariat.
How about Lenin's "War Communism" policy during the Russian Civil War? We don't really know too many details about North Korea's economy but that could very well be a communist regime. Cuba is a socialist country but based on many Marxist ideas.
share'Haha communism is impossible, and never existed in the first place.'
Yeah, just like true democracy is impossible.
No Message
shareThere is a difference between socialism and communism, even if communism is a form of socialism.
Communism is seen as a totalitarian dictatorship because of leaders like Stalin. Socialism can never exist in it's purist form because humans are designed to be evil and malicious.
It's more of an anti-communism propaganda not even touching on the capitalist or socialist life. The ant dude simply doesn't want to work for no reason and therefore he doesn't stay in the communist community.
On a happier note, rather than argue about ants doing what they want, we can just step on them like we usually do.
haha. someone want ideas for a paper that was assigned to them by their economics teacher?
shareI believe the film more correctly portrays Fascism. Very simmilar to communism, but with one profound difference. Communism states that every person in the "colony" is equal, with no social classes. In Fascism, there is no equality. A tiny, ruling elite recieves the benefits of production, and the non-royal, non-milital people were considered compltetly insignificant and worthless.
In Antz ( we discussed this in my
"I'd rather be his whore than your wife"World History course) leans towards Fascism. Like in thew opening scenes, when Z is talking to the psychaitrist, the psychaitrist says " you're absolutely right, you are insignificant!"
- Titanic
There's a very simple reason why communism doesn't work. People are lazy and greedy. They won't accept the fact that a doctor would earn the same as a garbage truck driver, even though society can not live without either. They want the most money from the least effort, even if that means that it'll be denied to other people. In my opinion, communism could work if people did not suck.
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Let me tell you a story to chill the bones