MovieChat Forums > The Full Monty (1997) Discussion > Why do the English worry about accents?

Why do the English worry about accents?


Can someone from England please explain why speech and accent are an issue in England? I am American who lived in the Midlands for three years in the late sixties. I heard it a number of times from different people that they were worried about their accent. Those folks indicated that they wish they could speak like the "news person on the TV. It seems like they were worried that they would be deemed as being "low" class.

As Americans, we have a lot of different accents. We may remark that a person has a Southern, New England, or maybe a Brooklyn accent, but we generally don't think any less of the person. I am not trying to insult anyone, but it was just something I noticed while living there.

Again, I am not trying to insult anyone and I am not trying to say Americans speak better.

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It generaly depends on where about in England you come from, in the North, people generaly prefer to have regional accents, as in the West-Country. the posher accent seems to become more common the further South-East you go.

Some people say that there is still a lot of predjudice on accent in the UK with people saying that Posh accents sound more intulectual although I haven't Experienced it personaly.
(although having said that Both my parents, who are from the North had to have Elecution lessons when they were younger so that they spoke in "Propper English" as it was thought that that was the only way to get a high paying jobin those days. Then again it was in the 1960's so I don't think that it applys to Modern England)

"On Ilkla Moor Baht'at"
"We come a cob a coalin' "

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I dunno, I still think that with two people the exaxt same experiences and qualifications they would choose a southern accent over a liverpudlian accent. then again that may just be the stigma associated with the scouse accent.
I mean I live in between Liverpool and Manchester and I'm conscious not to have either a mancunian or a liverpudlian accent.
I do like having a warrington accent though. heehe.

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"I dunno, I still think that with two people the exaxt same experiences and qualifications they would choose a southern accent over a liverpudlian accent. then again that may just be the stigma associated with the scouse accent."

Yeah, your probably right. I don't have a perticulaly strong accent and I rarely go down South anyway so I proberbly don't realy get judged by it as much as others. Then again it probably depends on who is judging you.

"On Ilkla Moor Baht'at"
"We come a cob a coalin' "

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Why do Americans think America is the only country with regional accents within the country?

And I'm an American, BTW

"We had part of a Slinky, but I straightened it."

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The OP made it pretty clear that they recognize that UK has regional accents. How on earth were you confused by this?

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It's often about stereotypes... The stereotype of someone with a strong Liverpudlian accent is that they're a criminal... The stereotype of someone with a strong Birmingham is that they're stupid... The stereotype of someone with a strong Glaswegian accent is that they're violent... And so on... I don't think it's as much of an issue as it used to be - someone can now be successful without feeling that he / she has to make efforts to get rid of a regional accent. But, it's another cause of the homogenisation of accents in this country, which is a shame, as variety is a good thing... I'm a big believer that the general level of spoken English in this country needs to be very much improved. But, regional accents are a good thing, which should be preserved.

I just got done taming a wild honeymoon stallion for you guys.

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I know what your saying. I live in an area in the north of England, the accent isnt much different to the sheffield accent in this film, and people with this accent can be thought of as not being intelligent, just because of the way the accent sounds, and probably because of the slang words we use, and because we dont speak " proper English ", which i think it's stupid for people to think like that.

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This thread reminds me of Rex Harrison's lamenting song in My Fair Lady, about the English not speaking what he deemed "proper" English.

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"The stereotype of someone with a strong Glaswegian accent is that they're violent."

Im Glaswegian and love that stereotype :) There are so many stereotypes regarding the best city in Scotland that its hard not to embrace them.

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[deleted]

Scotland, at large, has the best accents! I've been living here for the past 6 years and love the Scots.

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The Glasgow accent can turn from friendliness to violence in a split second and back again. It has an inherit toughness, regardless of who's it is. Even camp Glaswegian accents.

Have you been south of the border? Carlisle, Newcastle, the Lake District, Leeds?

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That's funny, I was thinking that too! The rain in Spain!

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It's a self esteem issue stemming from past-emphasis on class and social standing.
Due to Britain's history of class, working ('lower'), lower middle-class, upper middle class and upper class there are still many people raised in a way that they react to a 'posher' accent in a different way than how they act toward their peers.
It's all bollocks really my good man, class has no REAL implication anymore and having an accent doesn't mean you're dumb.

A 'posher' sounding accent is used to describe a person who speaks english with the correct pronunciation mainly because use of the language in its proper vernacular highlights, to them, a lack of education in how they speak.

Its also to do with the whole 'us Vs Them' mentality of humans. As a social group we strive to identify other people in their relation to us...we also define ourselves as a people by first defining the 'enemy' (Natural instinctual programming here) so therefore somone with a unique accent to you is clearly 'not from round ere BOY!'

P.S You may not think 'less' of people in America but whenever I see an American film depicting a red neck on screen...99.9999% of the time their accent is Texan and they are very stupid.

'Only EFFORT, DISCIPLINE, LOYALTY, earn the right to wear the Dragon Doji.' - Oroku Saki

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Yes, Texas has lots of "Rednecks". But, what you may be attributing to a Texas accent may just be a Southern accent.

However, "Rednecks" are really a description of a (most likely) Southern person who acts dumb. So, it may be that's what the film is looking for.

Redneck Joke.

Three Rednecks sitting out behind the barn.

One Redneck says,” I got the dumbest wife in the World. She is so dumb that last week she bought a dishwasher and we ain’t got no electricity.” Second Redneck says, “My wife is so dumb that she bought some toothpaste and she ain’t got no teeth.” Third Redneck says, “That ain’t nothing, I found six condoms in my wife’s purse the other day. Hell, she ain’t even got a pecker.”

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It does, indeed, sound as if the issue harks back to the class-ridden Victorian era and before.

Reminds me of one series of the Graham Norton Show that he filmed in New York City — and his remark that "here, even my accent sounds posh!"

It is my understanding that actors and TV personalities (newscasters, etc.) are expected to speak a posh accent except in those instances when the character they're playing needs to speak a regional accent.

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I understand what you're saying, but for me it's always been the other way around. I've never wanted to speak "news reader english" (lol) because that's just not what I am and where I'm from.

For me, the real problem is when American films stereotype us by having British characters speak with the Queens english. It bugs the heck out of me when I go on holiday over there and someone asks "why are't you speaking like Keira Knightley?"

Of course, some of them are looked down on (I know a few people from Liverpool who have been treated unfairly because of their accents and the connotations involved with being from Liverpool) but most of us just embrace it I think. I haven't met anyone who has had a problem with it yet.

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Dear me - imagine if we all spoke like Keira..! I remember when we were in America - people kept asking if we were Australian, because we didn't speak like the Queen or Dick van Dyke in "Mary Poppins"... It's just lazy, insular Yanks, who can't be bothered to deal with the fact that there's a vast range of accents just within the UK, let alone the rest of the English-speaking world.

I just got done taming a wild honeymoon stallion for you guys.

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lazy, insular Yanks, who can't be bothered to deal with the fact that there's a vast range of accents just within the UK, let alone the rest of the English-speaking world.

Hey, you forgot "arrogant." Cuz South Koreans, Ukrainians, and Panamanians all recognize the various nuances and differences among the range of British accents.


~~~~~~~
Please put some dashes above your sig line so I won't think it's part of your dumb post.

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Accents have very little to do with intelligence, from personal experience. However, in the UK anyway, it is usually possible to determine a person's class from the way they speak. Although the class system has become more centred during the last few centuries, and is no longer polarised. So really, you can call yourself what you want, but you're probably middle class (except if you're German and live in a palace)

Growing up in Liverpool, i am aware of the stigma attached to having a strong regional accent, especially one as recognisable as scouse. I have found that it is common for a person with a scouse accent to "play up to it" and actually make it sound harsher and more "scouse" in order to fit in with their mates. This is known as downwards convergence. Also, stereotypes can paradoxically lead to people trying to live up the stereotype, especially around "out-of-towners".

I was in London recently and i found that i was trying to tone down my accent so i didn't stick out like sore thumb - upwards convergence. There is a general snobbery in the south towards "those up north", which does make it difficult to get a job in London for example.

Yeah, went on a bit of a rant =p

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american peoples can understand your accent, don't their?

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You'd think so, wouldn't you, grecia_aretusa? But, you do occasionally hear of people speaking in British regional accents being subtitled on American TV. And, films featuring British regional accents that make it big internationally - "Billy Elliott", "The Full Monty", "Trainspotting", etc. - always cause some Yanks to moan about not being able to understand.

I just got done taming a wild honeymoon stallion for you guys.

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Growing up in Liverpool, i am aware of the stigma attached to having a strong regional accent, especially one as recognisable as scouse. I have found that it is common for a person with a scouse accent to "play up to it" and actually make it sound harsher and more "scouse" in order to fit in with their mates. This is known as downwards convergence. Also, stereotypes can paradoxically lead to people trying to live up the stereotype, especially around "out-of-towners".


I'm not from Liverpool but I'm not far from there so I have a slight scouse accent (as does the majority of people who live in my town of course). I have noticed quite a few people even where I live playing up the accent. One of my relatives has a habit of doing this when we're on holiday or when she's around her friend from Liverpool.

http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/



Gemma x

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I'm no pro on theubject but i have some idea that the South of England is actually a fair bit richer than the North. I havent noticed that northern people try and act less northern though. Some of the farmin counties however who aren't actualy that poor seem to try to cover up a lil sometimes and worry about it. I don't realy know why

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I'm actually more curious why there are so many different accents. I'm in the US, grew up Illinois, but have lived in Washington state for the last 9 years, other than a few words here and there that either I or a native Washingtonian utter, we pretty much sound the same.

Obviously, New Englanders & Southerners (and perhaps some of the Swedish/Norwegian enclaves in MN, etc.) have different accents, but across the midwest and west coast, I don't really here that much of a difference in the way that we speak "American English", different lingo for things perhaps, but not neccessarily in elocution.

Considering that England and the individual European countries are smaller than the US geographically speaking (which is not to say that the US is bigger or better in any respect), I've always been curious why (other than Welsh or Scottish speakers in the UK) there are so many different accents?

Is it because the UK (and the rest of the European Continent) have kept much more of their cultural/geographical heritage? Why do New Englanders & Southerners sound so different from each other in the first place? Both regions were settled, in the majority, by English colonists, but sound vastly different and did so within a few hundred years of being settled.

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"Is it because the UK (and the rest of the European Continent) have kept much more of their cultural/geographical heritage?" Yeah, that's probably it.

"Why do New Englanders & Southerners sound so different from each other in the first place?" I'm hardly an expert, but maybe due to their contrasting views they became isolated and their respective dialect patterns went separate ways, in a similar way that a new species can develop if isolated from the "mother" group.

All guess-work anyway, lol.

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Being neither a New Englander or a Southerner by birth, I wouldn't want want to impugn on their heritage or slight their upbringing in any way:-) After all, my family did settle in North Carolina (but obviously, migrated to the "new west" of Illinois back in the 1800's, & yes, we came from good England stock, lol).

Dialect tho has always been a curiousity to me... other than certain regions in the US, Southern, Eastern Seaboard, Brooklyn, etc., for the most part the rest of the country sounds the same. For instance, I'm in WA, grew up in IL, but an Oregonian or a Californian sounds the same way as a Washingtonian and/or an Illinoisian and that is the whole western half of the US, which is twice as large as the Eastern Seaboard.

Again, I mean no insult, but I'm curious why smaller countries such as the UK and Germany, for instance, have so many different accents/dialects within their own borders yet the US, which was founded by emigrants from various European countries and beyond, doesn't seem to have this diversity (in elocution of "American English," not in cultural terms or celebrations).

Again, no disrespect is meant, language & how it evolves it just a curiousity of mine.

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I'm an American who is also fascinated by regional accents, so this thread is very interesting to me.

>Dialect tho has always been a curiousity to me... other than certain regions in the US, Southern, Eastern Seaboard, Brooklyn, etc., for the most part the rest of the country sounds the same.

Listen very carefully sometime to people from places like Chicago and northern Minnesota and you'll hear something similar to the exaggerated accents from Saturday Night Live ("da Bears!") and Fargo ("He was funny lookin'. More'n most."). And since I was born in upstate New York, raised in Jersey, spent most of my adult life in Chicago and now live in Kentucky, people often comment on things I pronounce differently from them. For instance, a's in upstate New York are broader, and everyone comments on how I say words with a short a (except for people in upstate New York, to whom it sounds normal!). Also, southern accents vary from state to state, and I can pick out someone from South Carolina versus western Texas.

I recently noticed how much my daughter's assistant soccer coach (from England, but not sure specifically where) sounds like some of the locals. I mean, his accent isn't that much different from the southern accent I hear here in Louisville, and a Boston accent sounds like other British people sometimes. So I'm wondering if the regional accents here in the eastern US aren't somehow related to the English who originally settled in those areas. Working class versus landed gentry? Do the English folks on this board hear any similarities between a Boston accent and any of their regional accents? And between a southern accent and any region in England? And I can see how a northern Minnesota accent could have been derived from the Swedish people who settled there in large numbers in the 1800's. Anyone hear that as well?

Also, as regards the original post, that people in the US don't judge others by their accents like the Brits do, I'd have to disagree. I think many look at a thick Bronx or southern accent as being low class or less intelligent. Think about the characters in movies or on TV with those accents (less now, more common certainly 20+ years ago, but you still see it), they're often working class, poorer, and sometimes outright criminals. I think the stereotype is present here in the US as well, that your accent in some way identifies you as better or worse than someone else.

I aim to misbehave.

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There are plenty of regional dialects and accents in the U.S. Are the places you mention mostly large cities? My experience (as a speech-language-hearing professional and having a background in linguistics) has shown me that the differences in dialect/accent tend to be more subtle around metropolitan areas, and differences are greater with more rural areas or smaller towns.

Folks also tend to "code switch" when they are speaking to someone with the same first language, but a different dialect/accent. Most of the time, people do this subconsciously - oh, you have a slightly different accent, I'll see what I can do to match it, and you do the same, would you, please?

I think you may just not have noticed the dialectal/accent differences when you're speaking to other Americans unless the differences are great - for instance, the difference between a native New Yawker and someone from N'Orlins. Most people in white collar businesses have developed, to some extent, "standard" American spoken English expressly for the purposes of making sre they are always understood in a commerce situation.

Accent/dialect are also much broader terms that encompass more than simply pronunciation of words. They affect speech rate, vowel and consonant length, prosody, pragmatics, conversational overlap, whether or not final consonants are released or unreleased, certain grammatical structures (both syntactic and morphologic), etc. It could simply be that these differences do not register within your perception as being different from your own, but they are definitely different.

But if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? Well, that depends on your definition of sound . . . If a person is speaking to you in a dialect or accent different from your own, and you don't notice it, is it different?

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I'm from south London and when I lived in England I was always conscious of being a working class 'Barrow boy', especially as I was in computers in the late 80's. Most of my colleagues were university educated.

Looking back, the problem was much more in my head than with anyone else

I moved Stateside in the mid 90's and now people think I am Australian. This doesn't bother me as I like Aussies but people will argue with me as they believe that all English sound like Newsreaders. No matter how many times I tell them that "MATE" has been used by working class Londoners for centuries they don't believe it.

Anyway, thats all beside the point. What I'm trying to say is that even after 13 years away I still think of anyone with a Northern accent as a scrounging monkey.

I just cannot help it.

My friends from up North still think of me as a Soft, Southern, Shandy Drinking Fairy.

And we both think that people from the Midlands have the daftest accent of all. They sound like Squeaky Sad Clowns.

I do not mean to insult anyone*

Many warm regards

* except Northeners, Mancs, Scousers, Geordies, Mackams, Jocks, Brummies, Dingles, Tykes, Pie-eaters, Taffs, Sweaties, Micks and Norf Landaners.

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You missed out the smoggies :)

*insert worthless quote here*

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Damn right!!

Smeg!

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There is nothing worse than a Brooklyn or a New York accent. New Jersey is bad too. Most of the New England states are horrible. Vermont is impossible.
also, Minnesota and Wisconsin are hard to take. North Dakota, oh please...watch the movie Fargo. Ja???

Some southern accents are bad, and it depends on what part of the south you are from and how lazy you are in your speech patterns.

Central Texas is over populated with Californians, so Texas accents are very diluted in Austin and Dallas. Dennis Quaid, and Matthew McConaughey are from Dallas and Austin, respectively. Robert Duvall is a good example of a Texas accent without the overdoing.

A true Southern accent is nothing like a Texas or Oklahoma accent. so stop assuming if you hear a dumb southerner he is from Texas. That is just ignorant on your part.

Most Yankee accents are just impossible to decipher. By Yankee I mean anyone North of the Mason-Dixon Line.

And yes I am a southerner but have lived in Texas 30 years. For those who don't know, the Mason-Dixon Line was a cultural boundary line between the Northern United States and the Southern United States aka Dixie...

it was an important line of division during the Civil War.

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There is nothing worse than a Brooklyn or a New York accent. New Jersey is bad too. Most of the New England states are horrible. Vermont is impossible.
also, Minnesota and Wisconsin are hard to take. North Dakota, oh please...watch the movie Fargo. Ja???

Some southern accents are bad, and it depends on what part of the south you are from and how lazy you are in your speech patterns.

Central Texas is over populated with Californians, so Texas accents are very diluted in Austin and Dallas. Dennis Quaid, and Matthew McConaughey are from Dallas and Austin, respectively. Robert Duvall is a good example of a Texas accent without the overdoing.

(...)

Most Yankee accents are just impossible to decipher.


I love Brooklyn/New York accents.
English not being my mother tongue, I love to learn different English accents. I've always considered it a part of my English education. And for a long time while growing up I thought all Yanks had no accent whatsoever, because when watching American films I usually couldn't tell whan yank from another.
I fairly easy took Southern accents, Texas, Oklahoma, Alabame, Louisianna... but years before differing northern accents.
Then, when I was about 16, I finally realised New York had it's own accent, and when I finally figured it out I thought it was so cool. Even subcontiously I must have picked up alot from watching Seinfeld alot, because everytime my boyfriend and I are abroad he claims I'm incapable of ordering coffee without sounding like George Constanza.

Anyways.... of the American accents I really like any Southern, because they got personality, besides I also like New York and Maine/New England.

Of the accents in England, I seem to like them better the further North you get: espessially I love Yorkshire accents, also scouse, Durham, Nottingham etc.

Of other countries I prefer Irish accents outside of Dublin (it sounds like music in my ears, I could listen to an Irish accents all day long), Kiwi (it's adorable), but I'm not to fond of Aussie and the way some South Afrikans talk.

**********
- Who's the lady with the log?
- We call her the Log Lady.

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I had a good laugh over this post-- thanks! When we first moved from the Hudson Valley to upstate Vermont, I thought people were putting me on with the accent. Originally from Philadelphia, I have retained some of that accent ("woder" for water, "Iggles" for Eagles, and so on), and I enjoy regional accents. Believe me, Rochester, NY's accent is far different from Albany's, or the Bronx, or Long Island's. North Jersey's is different from South Jersey's, just like inland North Carolina's is different from coastal NC's. I think it makes the world more interesting and colorful. Sub, grinder, po'boy, hoagie.

PS-- My pop grew up outside of Boston to German parents who learned to speak English there. Now *they* had interesting accents!

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