MovieChat Forums > Trainspotting (1996) Discussion > But isn't ALL colonization wrong?

But isn't ALL colonization wrong?

posted 4 years ago by TheMan18 (13020)
15 replies | jump to latest

In a scene where Ewan MacGreggor says "Its shite being Scottish" and then continues - "We're the lowest of the low, scum of the Earth, blah blah blah, some people hate the English, I don't they're just wankers, we're on the other hand are colonized by wankers, can't even "find a decent" country to be colonized by...", I had to wonder.

First of all, isn't ALL colonization as such equally horrible, immoral, bad and wrong, why does he state "can't even find a "decent" culture to be colonized by", as if, there are "good" and there are "bad" colonizations? Isn't colonization almost like a form of invasion and is an aggression and therefore by nature all forms are it are wrong, no matter who its coming from?

Also, I kind of sensed that there is quite a lot of personal guilt shaming and victim blaming on his part of this scene, because he keeps saying that he considers Scottish as "scum" because they were COLONIZED? That doesn't make them evil and something to be ashamed of is it? And he keeps saying that because he doesn't find English culture to be decent enough, then it is bad and is humiliating, and even says he doesn't hate the English so much for being the colonizers but hates the Scottish for being colonized? But really, what is the rationale and logic behind this line of thinking?

And on the other side, why were those people mad at Tommy for wanting them to go with him on a mountain? Even if they didn't want to go for instance, why did, in this instance, Sick Boy character state "Look Tommy, I know you're getting a hard time off of Lizzy but there is no need to TAKE IT OUT ON US", how exactly is wanting a group of friends to go on a mountain a form of "taking the anger out on them", even if they didn't want to go? Or were they sort of having a laugh in a bizarre way?

What do you think, thanks.

[–] RebelBlood (213) 4 years ago

Renton and Sick Boy were saying any hateful thing they could to bring Tommy down. He was finding something that made him grateful and happy to be alive at all, and the miserable bastards couldn't stand it in that moment. They were severely depressed and feeling intense self-loathing. Depressed people often reject expressions of joy and relief because they forget what it feels like. It offended them that he was trying healthy coping strategies. It wasn't really about the moral indignity of colonization or Sick Boy's disinterest in nature. They weren't ready to be anything but miserable and thought Tommy had to be in it with them. They're just being crappy friends.

[–] TheMan18 (13020) 4 years ago

For a while, I was also thinking that maybe Sick Boy was afraid of heights, had vertigo etc and was feeling that such a trip to the mountain will not be safe, one way or another. (Then again, in another movie, directed by Danny Boyle, based on the true story, 127 Hours (2010), a young man went by himself to the mountains and got stuck there when that boulder fell. Who knows?)

[–] wearsalan (5554) 4 years ago

Everything in that scene is down to the fact they are missing heroin

[–] TheMan18 (13020) 3 years ago

For a while, I was thinking also that his friends may have just not been in the mood to go to the mountains like that and also didn't want to get involved in Tommy's problems too much.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

I think you need to finish making my large coffee and move on to the next customer.

[–] TheMan18 (13020) 4 years ago

Haha, I haven't yet started working in the kitchen.

[–] Quasimodo (16388) 3 years ago

A Bishop from Borneo remarked that " If it wasn't for colonialism we would still be head hunters ."

[–] TheMan18 (13020) 3 years ago

Many in the world don't think of Putin's annexation of Crimea in 2014 as a "right" thing (is that also in a way colonization?) not to mention what is happening in Ukraine right now.

[–] Quasimodo (16388) 3 years ago

I wouldn't call what Putin is doing colonization. Putin is waging war on Ukraine. As far as I can see the British Empire after it's early stage ( eg slavery in the West Indies and sugar plantations ) wasn't one of military conquest but one of trade ( in India for example ).

PS: You totally ignored my response to your question and you do that a lot.

[–] TheMan18 (13020) 3 years ago

Nope, I didn't ignore it. I accepted it and read it and registered it in my mind.

Maybe now it is a war and maybe yes he is waging it (although some people may say its not as simple and that he didn't simply declare a war on Ukraine like that) but at least that aspect, the 2014's "annexation" of Crimea, is also an example of "colonization" and that is seen by many for instance as a a bad thing, which contradicts Bishop from Borneo's statement that "if it wasn't for colonialism, we would still be head hunters", implying that it can at least sometimes be "good".

[–] TheMan18 (13020) 3 years ago

Plus, maybe if one was to look deeply into even the aspects of colonization that Bishop was referring to, one could perhaps also find all sorts of examples of certain leaders out there "waging a war", unless, we know deep down inside the ultimate truth to prove that it is not, and even then, we may find certain less than pleasant but also surprising facts of life.

[–] Quasimodo (16388) 3 years ago

How can what Putin is doing in Ukraine possibly "contradict" the Bishop from Borneo's statement ? The Bishop was simply stating a fact and nothing Putin does can erase it.

Put it this way what do you think the world would be like if North Western Europe had not invented Western Civilization and they were still running around in bear skins chasing game ? Do you think the world would be a better place ?

[–] TheMan18 (13020) 3 years ago

Yeah but didn't the Bishop in general suggest colonization is a good thing? At least sometimes? And wasn't Putin's annexation of Crimea an example to the contrary - that what he did, which can also be considered colonization, not good?

[–] Quasimodo (16388) 3 years ago

I think the implication was that he did. My point is that the overwhelming good of colonization ( hello Western Civilization goodbye Dark Ages ) far outweighs the negative impact of the Putins of the world ( so long as he doesn't fire off all his nukes of course ).

[–] FootOfDavros (8175) 2 years ago

Also, I kind of sensed that there is quite a lot of personal guilt shaming and victim blaming on his part of this scene...

I don't think it's supposed to be personal but more a clever perspective shift being forced upon Scots themselves.

A lot of Scots do hate the English (in contrast to what Renton says about himself) so it's quite a humourous spin to put on the usual blaming the English for all Scotland's problems that some nationalists would have.

Much as it's funny, it's a bit meta and (although I can't remember for sure if that dialogue is a direct lift from the novel) it's almost a bit of a forth wall break as I can't imagine the character really having that mindset.