Did You Want Him to Shoot Him? (SPOILERS)
I did.
shareYeah me too. He had to die.
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MovieChat Forums > Se7en (1995) Discussion > Did You Want Him to Shoot Him? (SPOILER...
I did not because it is what John Doe wanted.
shareIf he did not shoot John Joe, then John Joe would have pleaded insanity and not even gone to prison.
Mills shot him because that was only way he could have justice.
I understand that and have no qualms about what Mills did, I get it, I really do, I’m just saying that I probably wouldn’t have. The question was “Did you want him to shoot…” And there is no guarantee he would have gotten an insanity plea, those are extremely difficult to obtain.
shareBy the way he killed I don't think it is that difficult. He was not a serial killer, he did not kill because he was addicted to it, he did not kill for profit, so what was the reason he killed if he was not insane?
shareIt actually would have been very difficult to prove because all of his murders were premeditated and he knew exactly what he was doing.
"A defendant can be found legally insane if he/she can prove that: They did not know that their actions were illegal. They did not know they were committing the act. They were forced to commit the offense by an irresistible force."
He doesn't fit into any of those categories.
Bingo.
shareIn Australia, at least in NSW, the test is following:
(1) an individual suffers from a “defect of reason”, which is (2) caused by a “disease of the mind”, and, as a result, (3) he or she does not know the “nature and quality” of the act or that it was wrong.
https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2015/11/06/how-the-insanity-defence-against-a-murder-charge-works.html
Although vary from country to country, state to state I think the spirit is the roughly the same. I think John Doe could pass the test.
John Doe’s mind doesn’t seem to have an identifiable disease, he’s just a fanatic, bent so far out of shape that not only does he fail to see the wrong in his brutal torture and murder… he thinks he’s in the right.
If Muslims go to prison for butchering innocent people in accordance with their sick religious beliefs then John Doe should get the same treatment.
That is your opinion, but it is up to experts.
Also terrorism has its reasoning, rational ones, unlike what John Doe was doing. For example dropping atomic bombs in Japan during world war two was considered state sanctioned terrorism, killing innocent people en masse (but I bet you were told that was OK).
You can argue those Japanese people were not innocent, but I think that is the same reason other terrorists used as well.
OK you’re going down the route of justifying any behaviours (and, incidentally, dropping bombs on Japan was a defensive wartime response to Pearl Harbour and saved countless lives because it caused Japan’s immediate surrender)
What we’re discussing here is how the legal system would process John Doe, and my point is that it would likely treat him as another murderous religious fanatic, the likes of which Islam routinely spits out now that the West has imported it in droves.
Like I said before what John Doe was doing was not terrorism, terrorists have their rational reasons, they have their purpose. Just like what you said about the reasoning behind the nuclear bombing of Japan, Islamic terrorists want US military withdraw from the Persian Gulf region.
There is nothing like that for John Doe, what was his rational reason for doing all this? What is the purpose of it?
No, Islamic terrorist murder Western civilians because we don’t follow Islam. Read the ISIS magazine Dabiq, specifically the article ‘Why we hate you and why we fight you’
John Doe’s purpose is made clear in the film, our contemporary society is guilty of internalising the Seven Deadly Sins, his victims are tortured as symbolic atonement for those sins, to send a message that we’re falling short of Christian ideals.
Bin Laden and John Doe are religious fundamentalist terrorists as far as the law is concerned.
Islamic terrorist murder Western civilians because we don’t follow Islam. Read the ISIS magazine Dabiq, specifically the article ‘Why we hate you and why we fight you’
I think that is what the main stream media apparatus told you (because I bet a real ISIS magazine is not in English or available for subscription from where you live).
Anyway, if you read a bit wider you will know that is not the case. There are quite a few documentaries on why Bin Laden did what he did.
But anyway, you don't sound intelligent enough to carry a grown up conversation, also you sound more and more like an influencer trying to drag this conversation into about Islamophobia, either way I will leave you here. share
I think that is what the main stream media apparatus told you (because I bet a real ISIS magazine is not in English or available for subscription from where you live), if you read a bit wider you will know that is not the case.
Absolute flat out horseshit, in fact it is you you who has been duped by the mainstream media. Do some basic research before you embarrass yourself further, you can read about Dabiq here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dabiq_(magazine)
There are quite a few documentaries on why Bin Laden did what he did.
Yes, and you can read his letter to the American people in which he says ‘jihad against the tyrants and the aggressors is a form of great worship in our religion. It is more precious to us than our fathers and sons. Thus, our jihad against you is worship’
https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ubl/english/Letter%20to%20the%20American%20people.pdf
But anyway, you don't sound intelligent enough to carry a grown up conversation, also you sound more and more like an influencer trying to drag this conversation into about Islamophobia, either way I will leave you here.
Pure Dunning Kruger, you’re a moronic NPC whose brain has been fucked to death by the mainstream media. Do some research, think for yourself, and don’t comment on things you demonstrably know nothing about.
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His crimes were too complicated to be made by an insane person... He knew perfectly what he was doing.
shareBingo.
sharePeople are insane but that does not necessarily mean they are stupid, a lot of insane people are quite smart, not a lot different from geniuses.
I think it is about whether they can tell what is right from wrong.
Well he felt he was doing right, and in some sense it was, turning the sin against the sinner... He would be considered a Blood killer and sentenced to death, I Guess.
shareIf it is up to you and me, yes! But the law sometimes is not that convenient.
Cases like that could attract high profile lawyers offering their services for free, and try their hardest to help him escape justice.
Nope. I wanted him to die horribly the way his victims did. Giving him exactly what he wanted, is not what I would have done.
shareExactly, rotting away in prison obsessing over his failed, would be legacy, is what I would have preferred for him, knowing Mills took the higher path and didn’t succumb to his sick narrative…
shareNot dead, I wanted Mills to stick his pistol in the back of Doe’s knees and blow off his knee-caps, and then try to remove as many non-vital body parts as possible, tearing out his eyes, cutting off his nose, tongue, fingers, whatever he can in the time he has.
Death was a blessing for John Doe, what he needed was prolonged physical and mental suffering, something comparable to the suffering he inflicted on others.