MovieChat Forums > Pulp Fiction (1994) Discussion > Butch / Vince antagonism

Butch / Vince antagonism


Why the antagonism between Butch and Vince at the bar?
It seemed to be the first time they’d met, but Vince clearly recognised Butch (as a boxer) and didn’t like him.

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Butch’s matches are televised and everything so Vince probably recognizes him. As to why that is, Vince is a pretty opinionated guy and likely looks down on bums who take a fall for the mob.

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But Butch didn’t end up taking the fall like he was supposed to, and anyway that encounter happened before the bout took place.
Unless Vince knew about the plan in advance, but that seems unlikely.

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I thought it was generally understood in the organization he was meant to take a fall.

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I’d have thought that was something Marcellus would have been careful to keep quiet.
Though perhaps Vince guessed what was being planned when he saw Butch talking to Marcellus.

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I think Vince naturally wants to show people he isn't intimidated by anyone and won't back down.

Even with the Wolf, he makes the point of not wanting the Wolf to boss him around. He wants to be asked not told. It's an indication that he wants to be the one in power and won't be bullied.

I think with Butch, he sees Butch and recognizes someone who prides himself as tough and a well known boxer. Vince stares at him to send the message "I'm not afraid of you".

Thus begins the lead up to an epic stare down.

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That’s a good theory, IMHO — he did indeed behave antagonistically towards Wolf, so maybe he feels a need to assert himself with people he hasn’t met before.

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When Vince tells the Wolf to ask him not tell him it wasn't about wanting power it showed how incredibly insecure he is. He's insanely insecure with Butch, Wolf, with Jules when they washing hands at Jimmy's. He insecure about his toughness and intelligence which is why he's always trying to prove how smart he is.

Marsellus Wallace is the actual tough guy. He almost never raises his voice and is respectful to everyone unless they cross him or rape him. Butch hardcore double crossed him and after Butch saves Marsellus from his rape/murder Marsellus has a chance to murder Butch with his shotgun but he not only let's Butch live he tells him he will no longer have to look over his shoulder for him as long as he stays out of LA.

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This was the kernel of the pulp fiction ethic, the men of honor motif. Carrying your buddy's watch in your ass for years, going back to kill the rapist and face the guy you beat for a payday, the guy you beat & then saved giving you a pass.

It was beautiful writing.

Where's Zed ?

Zed's dead, babe. Zed's dead.

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Correctamondo!!!

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Vince knew Butch was going to throw the fight and he didn’t respect that. That’s why he called him “palooka” and “punchy”

Also keep in mind that Vince has had a really bad day so that probably played a factor:

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Vincent is a fucking moron, a well written character, but an imbecile nonetheless, he’s screwing up consistently throughout the entire film, so it’s not surprising that he is also emotionally immature, unable to manage his ego and oblivious to the fact that he’s a grade A fuck up.
He’s a ticking time bomb waiting to go off, I mean the man is in the throes of a mainlining heroin addiction while Butch is the polar opposite, intelligent, physically and emotionally controlled, focused and not intimidated in the least by Vincent, so naturally Vincent hates Butch the moment he see him, from a literary perspective they’re yin and yang….

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He’s such a moron that he can’t even keep it together with Jimmy and Mr. Wolf, who are saving him and Jules from a very serious situation.

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Exactly.

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To set up the scene later when Butch shoots Vincent with the gun.

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Vince calls Butch, "punchy" which means a boxer who's been punched so many times, that they have brain damage, and a "palooka" which is an old, dated term for a bad or average boxer. I guess Vince just didn't like Butch's boxing career. He probably also didn't respect Butch's choice to throw the fight.

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Would Vince have known about the plan to throw the fight, though? Marcellus and Butch had only just planned it when Vince and Jules arrived at the bar.

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Vincent was just a jerk who felt his peace was being disturbed after everything HE caused that day, and was just projecting his issues onto Butch when he came to the counter. Vince sees everyone around him except for himself as a problem of disrespect to him. That's also why he's a jerk to the Wolf and why he disagrees with Jules's philosophy of "walking the earth".

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Yeah, maybe it’s that simple - he just has a general attitude problem and a chip on his shoulder, and can’t always control his urge to be rude and antagonistic.

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