Why so much anti-May?


I'm not exactly sure why people dislike May so much, except that she "prevents" Newland from running off with Ellen. Not that it would have lasted, because the moment Ellen heard that May was pregnant, she would have kicked Archer back across the Atlantic. He would have been in exactly the same position as before, except disgraced.

As far as I can see, May's only sin was to tell Ellen a half-truth (which turned out to be quite true), and to play the pretty dim little woman as all women of the time were expected to. It's not WRONG to expect your spouse to stick to the commitments they made to you, and to expect them to not run out on you and your child. Nor is it wrong to try to protect your marriage even if it makes somebody unhappy.

Okay, so it made Newland unhappy. He should have thought of that before he married May and got her pregnant. He made HIMSELF unhappy. It's not May's fault that the idiot married and had sex with her, when he was in love with someone else, and LIED TO HER about not loving anyone but her.

Her only overwhelming flaw is that she fell for a sad, pitiful little man who had neither the strength to defy convention, nor the integrity to stick to his commitments. And she stuck with him despite his continuous emotional infidelity and him ignoring her, which shows that she honored those commitments a lot more than he did, despite all his lies and deceptions.

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It's because she doesn't question the status quo and she doesn't share any interests with Newland. He couldn't have married Ellen though, because he himself was still too wrapped up in the status quo to make such a bold move against it. He was just a bit more progressive than others of his time, Ellen was even more progressive than he, and May was boring because she was, if anything, less progressive than the average person of their class. It's pretty clear that Wharton herself was a bit unhappy with characters like May; Ellen seems to be rather similar to Wharton.



The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.

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I love the way Edith Wharton obviously loves her character Ellen. She nurtures her.

Indeed, could Ellen and Wharton have been the same person? Wharton left her husband and lived most of the last half of her life in Europe without ever returning to the US; Ellen also left and never returned.

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He was just a bit more progressive than others of his time, Ellen was even more progressive than he, and May was boring because she was, if anything, less progressive than the average person of their class.


Bingo! Love how you wrote it so succinctly!

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May did what she had to do so to speak, and she DID give him a chance to break the engagement, though the relief she felt was obvious when he expressed susprise at her asking (he was surprised by her picking up on the fact that his attention was being distracted, but I'm not sure May knew it was Ellen at that point--it was early in the film).

Anyhow, Newland can only be judged as weak in contemporary society. In his time, he was energetic, highly intelligent, and rebellious to the heavily constrained aristocratic society he was born and raised in. He made serious waves, but in the end, he got played by simple May who pulled the "I'm pregnant" card and Ellen was too tired of leading a hypocritical life to have an affair. After that realization, Newland became a conventional husband and father and grew to love May, but not passionately. His passion seemed to live on only in spurts and in his memories.

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He never loved May. But he grew to respect her and take note of her will to survive and her street wise intelligence. She even knew him well enough to play him like a fiddle from beyond the grave.

What touched him was that, out of all their tribe, she was the only one who knew how utterly heartbroken and defeated he was. And perhaps made him realize that she felt the same, married to a man who would never, ever love her.

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For the first time, I really understand why Scorsese calls this his most violent film.

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He never loved May.
We don't know that. He might have genuinely been in love with her before Ellen arrived.

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The book and the film make it quite clear that Newland was a bit of a player who chased after married women. May was just the proper, socially sanctioned choice after all his youthful conquests. The book also makes it clear that he wanted to change May and turn her into a more modern woman.

I would say Newland loved the idea of May, what she represented. He only realized how false that was when he fell in love for real with Ellen.

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You made very serious accusations against Newland. He was an honest man, an intellectual, a warm person and incapable of being deliberately cruel. Newland is a hero as much as Ellen is a heroine. The problem is that he is trapped in a society that suffocates him and prevents him from doing what he wants. He is in a conflict between what people expect of him and what he wants to do.


Education leads you through life to hate what should be hated and love what should be loved.

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Newland was pathetic and nothing more. Of course, as always, we vilify the woman but paint the man as a hero. There was nothing deplorable about May's actions and I found her the only likeable character of the entire film.

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It is true, that Newland lacked courage to get himself out of the situation he was in. He could have stopped the marriage, he could have waited the full engagement time that May's family was insisting upon, then it could have been broken off gracefully.

But it takes two to tangle.

Watch everyone's reactions to Newland and Ellen from the get go. All of them knew that there was something going on between them. Ellen even hints that they had a teenage crush. If everyone else knew, than May certainly had suspicions. However I do think she confused Ellen with another of Newland's flirtations.

May pushed the marriage even knowing that Newland was having second thoughts.

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May's family pushed the marriage. It was in that unspoken code of their tribe (I believe that is the term Wharton used) that they all realized Newland had either cold feet or other interests. Suddenly, while the Wellands were still in Florida, permission was given to have the marriage in April, right after Easter. I think Newland's tactical error was going to St.Augustine then appealing to Granny. Granny knew what was going on, even before Newland did himself.

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It was all about MONEY Foxlair. They wanted to consolidate two bank accounts. Plus Newland's family had older blood than the Mingotts. The Mingotts wanted this match more than words could say.

Plus there were so many embarrassing family people they needed to cover up (Beaufort and Ellen etc.) with the Archer polish.

Granny could have stopped it all but she knew her family would fall further than she could help them if they lost the May-Archer engagement because of Ellen. They would have had to farm May out to NEW money. GASP!

Which reveals how little they thought of Ellen, they didn't even consider her family.

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It was all about MONEY Foxlair. They wanted to consolidate two bank accounts. Plus Newland's family had older blood than the Mingotts. The Mingotts wanted this match more than words could say.

Plus there were so many embarrassing family people they needed to cover up (Beaufort and Ellen etc.) with the Archer polish.

Granny could have stopped it all but she knew her family would fall further than she could help them if they lost the May-Archer engagement because of Ellen. They would have had to farm May out to NEW money. GASP!

Which reveals how little they thought of Ellen, they didn't even consider her family.


Excellent! Thanks so much for posting this.

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I totally agree with that, even thought I felt sympathy for Ellen, all of the time it was annoying me how Newland was wronging May by acting so cowardly and kind of morally despicable (lying, deciding to stay with her but being emotionally distant, cheating on her).

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Very true---Newland would get his feelings hurt by Ellen, then rush off to kiss up to May...and then was horrified when May used the unconfirmed pregnancy to ward off Ellen and send her packing. What did he THINK would happen??? He was so shallow....

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Damn, you hate Newland.

I think you have painted him way too shallowly. He rushed off to kiss up to May because he was speeding up the marriage because he was trying to get over Ellen and go back to his original responsibility---marrying May. He was attempting to convince himself that his original plan to marry May was right--that he loved her. It was a mistake because marrying May wasn't going to help him forget Ellen. But he wasn't attempting to be cruel. FOr another thing, he never spoke out against May for her unconfirmed pregnancy stunt. It was a calculating stunt but its not like he seemed to hold it against her. He was as oppressed as the women were but more indecisive. He was weak but also willing to endure unhappiness---he wasn't callous or shallow or unfeeling. Newland wasn't just concerned with image and money, he was duty bound. There is a bit of narration at the beginning of the film that states that Newland's mother and sister relied on him for everything as their right hand man. He was from a conservative family and was expected to be a certain way. He was stuck between a rock and a hard place because doing what he wanted would have affected others as well. HE is not just selfish.

And for another thing, Ellen has selfish interest in mind as well. She wanted New York society to embrace her and provide stability but she also wanted a degree of freedom. When Newland tells her, he is willing to leave May. She says "I couldn't love you if you were cruel" and "you wouldn't be happy if you were cruel" . But breaking up with May was no worse than living with her in a loveless marriage. The truth will set you free as they say. Regardless of what she said, she wasn't too concerned with May's happiness. She was more concerned that Newland would feel guilty if he 'cruely' broke up with his fiance and it would negatively affect their own relationship.But there is a bit of selfishness to her motivation as well. Ellen didn't want to be known in NY society as a homewrecker. She was worried about her rep as well. She also wanted an idealized Newland who represented what she had hoped New York society would have provided (stability, responsibilty and acceptance--a nice contrast to her douchebag husband). When he said, he was old fashioned at the end of the film and didn't go up to see her, he did so for similar reasons than Ellen when she refused to let Newland leave May. He wanted acceptance and to honor their sacrifice. In other words, Ellen and Newland's unrequited (yet untainted ) love was more profound and moving to both of them. I doubt Ellen was even surprised he didn't go up to see her. They hadn't talked to each other in 30 years. She knew that Newland was stuck in his role and she knew of his earlier naivete. . If he had gone up, it would mean that the 30 years of sacrifice and responsibilty were for nothing (other than a period of bidding his time), and he could no longer imagine Ellen as the girl that got a way (as the idea woman who in an alternate reality had turned around at the lighthouse and saved him.). Newland's son was wrong (of course a younger man whose less oppressed wouldn't understand)---Ellen, I am convinced, would have totally understood why Newland didn't go up. She was more savvy than Newland was.



The point of this movie is not to take sides but sympathize with them all---their flaws, weakness and strengths. Think about Newland's behavior as a husband and father. Did he lash out against the woman he was stuck with. He even mourned her death. Did he cheat on her for real? Nope. Once he learned of the pregnancy, he made the best of their marriage and grew to respect the woman's strength. He became a good father with no resentment against the child that tied him to a loveless marriage. May never held his near affair over his head. She forgave. Ellen had self interest in mind at times (but who can blame her considering her crappy marriage) but she also considered the feelings of others.. They all have honorable and dishonorable moments. Ellen also lacked judgement of others.. This is a pretty forgiving group of people.




"You are not only wrong. You are wrong at the top of your voice."

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Great post. Glad you shared your thoughts here (and I got to read them). Thanks.

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I really enjoyed the character of May, and was happy Newland stayed with her. He did have choice so it all can't be put on May as to why he ultimately did not end up with Ellen.

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Well I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't like May because she was a disingenuous sneak.

I understand completely, her desire and need to keep her marriage intact, but rather than be upfront about her knowledge of Newland's love for Ellen, she played this sweet innocent little thing, while the whole time plotting and planning to have her way.

I don't like people like that. Call a spade, a spade, I say!

The thing is, she wanted to pretend everything was ok, and play happy families. If she had called Newland out and discussed things openly, she wouldn't have been able to pretend anymore. She sacrificed his happiness for her own. I find that kind of selfishness abhorrent.

I also think she knew before she married, that Newland was in love with Ellen, and yet she went ahead with it. That girl had a spine of steel and a heart of ice.

How on earth would you ever really know where you stood with a conniving and underhanded person like that? Makes my skin crawl. Like I say, I understand her actions, given the time the story was set in, but that doesn't mean I like her.

Played to perfection by Ryder.


So put some spice in my sauce, honey in my tea, an ace up my sleeve and a slinkyplanb

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"She sacrificed his happiness for her own. I find that kind of selfishness abhorrent."

I disagree, I don't think she found a whole lot of happiness in being married to a man who was in love with another woman.

If she was thinking of anyone's happiness, it wasn't her own, it was the kid she was expecting. For herself, all she could do was reduce the amount of misery she could expect in the future, because for a woman of her time, a loveless marriage was a better deal than being an abandoned wife raising a fatherless child. But if the child's future was a motivation of hers, then well, she had every right. If Newland really wanted to be with Ellen, then he could have and should have held off impregnating his wife. I'm got very little sympathy for him, much more for Ellen.

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Newland did appear to lie to May. But it seemed that he never understood his feelings and inclinations very well, given his stuffy background. Newland lied to May out of a lack of self-awareness rather than genuine viciousness.

I personally was actually in May's position once. I was told I was loved but a few months later down the line ... "Oops, not really, I'm still in love with my ex and you're just the rebound." And it took a long time for me and the other person to understand that.
I understand that he was young and confused and didn't understand his feelings and himself. When people are relatively young and inexperienced, feelings of love and lust are very cloudy and hard to assess.

It is certainly possible that a man can love both women, but love one more than the other.

I really think Ellen and May did their best, while they suffered a lot for Newland who really needed to man up.

transcendcinema.blogspot.com

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i liked may more than ellen

I ate this blonde Texan bitch.

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