Why so much anti-May?


I'm not exactly sure why people dislike May so much, except that she "prevents" Newland from running off with Ellen. Not that it would have lasted, because the moment Ellen heard that May was pregnant, she would have kicked Archer back across the Atlantic. He would have been in exactly the same position as before, except disgraced.

As far as I can see, May's only sin was to tell Ellen a half-truth (which turned out to be quite true), and to play the pretty dim little woman as all women of the time were expected to. It's not WRONG to expect your spouse to stick to the commitments they made to you, and to expect them to not run out on you and your child. Nor is it wrong to try to protect your marriage even if it makes somebody unhappy.

Okay, so it made Newland unhappy. He should have thought of that before he married May and got her pregnant. He made HIMSELF unhappy. It's not May's fault that the idiot married and had sex with her, when he was in love with someone else, and LIED TO HER about not loving anyone but her.

Her only overwhelming flaw is that she fell for a sad, pitiful little man who had neither the strength to defy convention, nor the integrity to stick to his commitments. And she stuck with him despite his continuous emotional infidelity and him ignoring her, which shows that she honored those commitments a lot more than he did, despite all his lies and deceptions.

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Spoken like someone who would rather be married to someone who didn't love them rather than be alone. He was in love with someone else, she fell for "a sad, pitiful little man who had neither the strength to defy convention, nor the integrity to stick to his commitments". I'd say they would have been well rid of each other.



"Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we're put in this world to rise above".

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jg67:

I completely agree with you!

"Don't like me? Then jog on, my friend."

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And that might work in our modern society. But in those days divorce and especially a man running off like that was a huuuuge scandal. No one would have come away from that unscathed.

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And that might work in our modern society. But in those days divorce and especially a man running off like that was a huuuuge scandal. No one would have come away from that unscathed.

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But he TOLD her again and again that there was no one else! She asked him and gave him about and the man STILL denied.

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Spoken like someone who would rather be married to someone who didn't love them rather than be alone. He was in love with someone else, she fell for "a sad, pitiful little man who had neither the strength to defy convention, nor the integrity to stick to his commitments". I'd say they would have been well rid of each other.
Rather, I would say that May was simply fighting for the love of the man she loved. Isn't that human? If I were in a marriage where I felt that my spouse was falling in love with another person, I would fight my hardest to win back my spouse's love rather than resign myself to letting go.

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Not sure how much the "in love with someone else" is worth when apparently he not only married someone "out of love" before that and also made her pregnant. The relationship with Ellen may just as well have been a fling: who knows. And the enduring nature of his marriage to May shows that there was a lasting love for her. Maybe not as fiery as with Ellen but love none the less.

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I think the narrator in the film states the word dutiful describing his marriage with May. The book is much worse, Archer calls his marriage a DULL duty and it only mattered because it was dignified. Where is love in that description? There isn't, because He didn't love May. But he was honorable and that was what mattered to him at the end.

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She doesn't have any individuality...

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It's not May's fault that the idiot married and had sex with her, when he was in love with someone else, and LIED TO HER about not loving anyone but her.

That's so true. I don't really understand why people think May is the evil one either.
To me, Newland was the most dislikeable character. He just seemed so weak and pathetic.

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I agree, gay uncle! Newland was such a sissy, it drove me crazy. Far too many people dismiss May as the annoying, whiny (I don't know where they get that from) villain who keeps Ellen and Newland apart. Personally I find May to be a really interesting character, just as intriguing as Ellen--only I can understand why Newland might've fallen out of love with her. But I don't hate May, I pity her.


"Just close your eyes...but keep your mind wide open."

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While initially I disliked May, after repeated viewings of this film and reading the novel, I've come to view her in a sympathetic light. She always knew Newland loved Ellen and she had to live with that her whole life. I don't think she was "preventing" Newland from doing anything. HIS sense of morality made him stay with May. If he had left May for Ellen, he and Ellen would have been banished from all good society and his child with May would have suffered. We can't put our own modern sensibilities onto characters living in the 1870s.

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> I don't think she was "preventing" Newland from doing anything. HIS sense of morality made him stay with May.

Yes, and that is why she is so cunning to the degree of being evil.

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In a nutshell she's whiny, and for another she's played by Winona Ryder, a so-called "actress" who is the same in everything she does. Oh wait, in Night on Earth she chewed gum obnoxiously to signal to us that she was a tough girl. Gum chewing is not acting. She's deplorable, and a petty thief as well.

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Good Lord. LOL

..I'd go to middle earth and look for Unspoiled Monsters. Then move to the country.

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In the film narration and in the final pages of the book Wharton tells us that Newland was "inextricably moved" when he discovered that May *knew* all along that he had sacrificed love (for Ellen) to uphold the honor of his family and his social commitment. On her deathbed, she told her children they would always be safe with Newland because he had done this for them.

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Whether you admire May or not think about the game she is playing. She has known all along that Newland was in love with Ellen but she never confronts him with his infidelity. Instead she sets about destroying that love at last through the revelation of her pregnancy to Ellen. Remember when she gives the farewell party for Ellen they both know she is pregnant but Newland doesn’t. So why does she give the party for a woman she fears and perhaps hates? It is to revel in her victory over Ellen and the successful capture of her husband. Wharton clues us in with this line: “…. New York believed him to be Madam Olenska’s lover. He caught the glitter of victory in his wife’s eyes, and for the first time understood that she shared that belief.” So now he knows that May’s knows of his unfaithfulness and when he looks at Ellen at the party Wharton tells us what he sees: “…her face looked lusterless and almost ugly, and he had never loved her as he did at that minute….Archer felt like a prisoner in the center of an armed camp.” When the party is over and Ellen leaves forever for Paris, May announces: “It did go off beautifully didn’t it?” The final irony in “The Age Of Innocence” is revealed when May pretends on her deathbed that Newland sacrificed his love for Ellen for the good of his family, when in fact he had no choice because May had brought about Ellen’s termination of the relationship.

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Ahhh, but May offered to let Newland go prior to their marriage. Still, he went thru with the marriage. At that point, May had to do what she could to hold on to it, as divorce would have been unthinkable.

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Yes, but the marriage she ended up with was empty of love. As Dallas puts in Paris with his father: "You never did ask each other anything, did you? And you never told each other anything. You just sat and watched each other, and guessed at what was going on underneath. A deaf-and-dumb asylum in fact!"

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It was probably a typical marriage of upper class 1873. Social position would trump love anyday, as it did in all Wharton's stories. Even freedom-loving Ellen could not bring herself to scandalize May, as much as she (Ellen) loved Newland.

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I agree with Linda303, and think that marriage was a much stronger social institution than it is today. Newland saw in Ellen an escape from his life. But he and Ellen would have been miserable together.

I also think that Newland loved May at least a little. May gave him every chance to back out of the marriage because she didn't want someone who loved someone else. And Ellen only stayed married to the count because Newland told her to!

Ellen only did the decent thing, not ruining her cousin's marriage. And May must have been heartbroken to think that her husband was Ellen's lover.But she never let on. I can't imagine what that must have been like.





Don's going to fix it. He knows what that nut means to Utz and what Utz means to us.

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es, but the marriage she ended up with was empty of love.
I would guess that only about 10% of those marriages were filled with "love" as we think of it today. Men and women were considered to be so different in nature and outlook, and to occupy such completely different spheres, that there was hardly any common ground between them. Married couples didn't even spend that much TIME together, as they often even had separate bedrooms if they could afford it.

Men "loved" the (supposed) spiritual, gentler nature of their wives, and the fact that they reared the man's children and made their houses into homes. Women "loved" their husbands for protecting and providing for them, and (supposedly) fulfilling their existence by making them mothers.

The idea of actually marrying for romantic love as we think of it today was quite rare. Marriage was more about survival.




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Yes, but the marriage she ended up with was empty of love.
I disagree. Newland may not have felt any of the passion for May that he did for Ellen, but that does not mean that the marriage was loveless. The fact that they grew old together, had a cordial relationship (thanks to May's deliberate blindness to Newland's errant past), and raised three children together, probably gave rise to as strong and affectionate a social bond that could have been expected in any successful marriage of the time. Moreover, the narrator's statement that Newland "honestly mourned" May makes it clear that he did grow to love her, although not necessarily according to our standards of romantic love. Newland spent a much better and arguably contented life than he would have had he ran away with Ellen. May made their marriage a success, and deep down, she loved him for his sacrifice.

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Ahhh, but May offered to let Newland go prior to their marriage. Still, he went thru with the marriage. At that point, May had to do what she could to hold on to it, as divorce would have been unthinkable.


I agree. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

http://twitter.com/mrscetrone

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She offered to let him go thinking it was another woman, or rather, a girl.

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I didn't dislike May, but she was set up as the beautiful simpleton, only for us to discover that she was the most artful of them all... which is brilliant, but for me, didn't make for a likable character.

Cunning with an innocent grin - frankly, it scares the crap out of me lol. People like that tend to be sociopaths.

That said, I love the story and while I didn't personally like May, she was an amazingly complex character; Wharton made it impossible not to appreciate the role May played.

I've got an appetite for destruction but I scrape the plate.

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May wasn't exactly an underdog. She had the-mindless-but-powerful force of tradition on her side.






God save Donald Duck, vaudeville and variety

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Though I prefer Ellen (everyone does, really), I do appreciate how well written May is, mostly because of the ambiguity: is she really so sweet, dim, and guileless? Or is there a truly calculating, crafty mind in that pretty head of hers?

It's hard to say if May is really a deliberate villain or not. Still, she reminds me quite a bit of Lucy Steele from "Sense and Sensibility". Lucy in the story is not well educated and you'd probably have to bribe her to read a book. Yet she has one thing that no amount of education can teach: cunning. Lucy knows how to sense people's vulnerabilities, read between the lines in any situation, and can use these skills to manipulate her way into getting what she wants. She can get any opponent out of her way without raising a finger; all she has to do is smile, flatter, rinse and repeat. It's a maddening combination of sick and admirable.

WARNING! SPOILERS!

May is the same way. She may not know the difference between a poem by Keats and her toenail, but she can read people better than even Newland or Ellen can. She knows there's an attraction, so she takes matters into her own hands. May tells Ellen what is at the time a bold-faced lie (that May is pregnant)... but then it becomes a truth, so there's nothing Newland can do about it, and May triumphs in how it's serendipitously worked in her favor. If May had confessed this and had not been pregnant at all, Newland could have divorced her, no problem. But May WAS pregnant, and now Newland is more trapped than ever. It's utterly infuriating, but you can't help but be a little impressed by May's cunning.

May might be conventional and boring, but stupid and unimaginative she most certainly isn't.



"Will you stop feeling sorry for yourself?! It's bad for your complexion!"-"Sixteen Candles"

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It's utterly infuriating, but you can't help but be a little impressed by May's cunning.

That's Martin Scorsese's opinion strangely enough. He says that he's impressed at how May transforms into a powerful woman even if by conventions and social dictates she has no power at all.

May might be conventional and boring, but stupid and unimaginative she most certainly isn't.

No one ever called her stupid or evil. Just scary in her total absorption into that superficiality and using that identity to hold on to her power. That smile at the end of that tracking shot where Archer realizes he's been had is one of the scariest, most unforgettable images in film history. An amazing piece of acting by Winona Ryder there, you can see the mask and you can see through it at one and the same time.

The thing about May is that she's at one hand a product of that society where daughters of high middle-class aren't encouraged towards education but towards marriage, being a mother and raising children but on the other hand she also cunningly uses this to trap Newland who obviously sees and comprehends more than that. She spends her entire life trying to maintain that image of hypocrisy to the point that she tells her son on her deathbed about how Archer was a good husband who gave up the thing he wanted most when she asked, just so that she can appear good and "die thinking the world is a happy place". She's basically a bird in a gilded cage who makes sure to trap other people in that world too.



"Ça va by me, madame...Ça va by me!" - The Red Shoes

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As those who have seen my posts on another thread already know, I am one of the rare ones who does not prefer Ellen to May. When I first was introduced to this movie and book, I was not drawn to Ellen, and that feeling has not changed. She's a sad figure, coming from Europe where the social customs are so different, and settling in New York, only to find snobbery and people who have so much money, they have the luxury of time to think about things that don't really matter. I can feel sympathy for her, after reading about her "nomadic" parents who "lavished on her an expensive but incohensible education." But, I do not "prefer" her.

Edith Wharton, I believe, meant this as a satire, with more of a feminist perspective.

Women didn't have a lot of choices in May's world, not and maintain their social status and dignity. And she was just what Newland wanted, until he discovered Ellen. "What a life it was going to be, with this whiteness, radiance, goodness at one's side!" -- Newland's thoughts while dancing with May at the Beaufort's ball.

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She spends her entire life trying to maintain that image of hypocrisy to the point that she tells her son on her deathbed about how Archer was a good husband who gave up the thing he wanted most when she asked, just so that she can appear good and "die thinking the world is a happy place".
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Yes, and May’s hypocrisy extends beyond her grave trapping Newland forever. She tells their son that his father gave up Ellen when she asked him to but of course she never actually asked him she simply forced the issue with her pregnancy and ultimately lied to Dallas. When Dallas tells his father of May’s deathbed assertion “It seemed to take an iron band from his (Newland’s) heart to know that, after all, that someone had guessed and pitied. …And, that it should have been his wife moved him indescribably.” This is the final blow in severing Newland’s attachment to Ellen and he is left with only his “stifled memories” instead of “ a quiet harvest of friendship, of comradeship in the blessed hush of her nearness.” These are the subtle ironies that makes "Age Of Innocence" such a masterpiece.

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The main thing that IMO put May in a wonderful light and Newland in a horrible one is MAY gave him every out BEFORE they were married. May is the one who wanted to give him more time to figure out if he truly wanted to be married to her the rest of his life or if there was another woman to be with her. Newland chose to hurry the marraige up knowing he was already falling for Ellen. Newland was the one who did everything to twist May's arm into speeding the marraige up. He made his choice and then regreted it later. I feel absolutely NO pity for Newland and feel anger and sad for May. So I agree 100% with the OP in this thread. May was in no way a villian IMO.

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May is my favorite character of the main three. It's very difficult to sympathize with Newland. He values his own intelligence over his wife's, yet he's always the one who's behind on what's going on. Ellen is always one step ahead of his thinking (she understands the outside world), and so is May (who best understands the rules of New York society). The ladies in the story get it - they get who they are, when and where they live, and what's important in life. Archer lives in a fantasy where, even if he'd gotten what he wanted, he'd still have been unhappy. I agree that he chooses his life with May, even though May gives him an out and Ellen gives him the space to make the choice without undue influence from her. From my perspective, Newland creates his own drama with only minimal encouragement to do so.

I don't think this is just a matter of modern sensibilities either. Transplant the personalities to 2009, and Ellen still wouldn't steal her cousin's husband and the father of her cousin's baby. That would be Jerry Springer show material, even now.

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When Dallas tells his father of May's deathbed assertion It seemed to take an iron band from his (Newland's) heart to know that, after all, that someone had guessed and pitied. 'And, that it should have been his wife moved him indescribably.' This is the final blow in severing Newland's attachment to Ellen and he is left with only his 'stifled memories' instead of a quiet harvest of friendship, of comradeship in the blessed hush of her nearness.

I would say that May was reaching out from beyond the grave anticipating such an eventuality and so passed on a message via Dallas that would force Newland to the conclusion that she "pitied" him. IMO, May is as manipulatively crafty as they come.

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Yes, and May’s hypocrisy extends beyond her grave trapping Newland forever. She tells their son that his father gave up Ellen when she asked him to but of course she never actually asked him she simply forced the issue with her pregnancy and ultimately lied to Dallas. When Dallas tells his father of May’s deathbed assertion “It seemed to take an iron band from his (Newland’s) heart to know that, after all, that someone had guessed and pitied. …And, that it should have been his wife moved him indescribably.” This is the final blow in severing Newland’s attachment to Ellen and he is left with only his “stifled memories” instead of “ a quiet harvest of friendship, of comradeship in the blessed hush of her nearness.”
I don't think it was hypocrisy on May's part. I think that the unspoken language of New York society was so much a second nature to May that in her mind, her indirect ways of begging Newland to stay with her - her insistence that he kiss her, pressing his hand to her cheek, and ultimately saying that he can't go without her because of their unborn baby - really amounted to asking Newland in plain language that he give Ellen up. Newland, whose forthrightness was part of what drew him to Ellen, didn't appreciate the extent to which May knew about his love for Ellen, and therefore didn't see the true meaning behind her words and gestures. That's why he says that May "never asked".

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I disagree with you when you say Newland "didn't appreciate the extent to which May knew about his love for Ellen, and therefore didn't see the true meaning behind her words and gestures. That's why he says that May 'never asked'."

I think he knew very well that she had trapped him from any possibility of escape, albeit inadvertently, after divulging both that she had learned of her pregnancy on the morning of the dinner, and that she had lied to May two weeks before about this very fact.

His correction of his son that May "never asked" was, therefore, not so much literal, but metaphorical, in that she had never given him a choice in the matter.

Like you said, she didn't need to ask. All she had to do was insist on a kiss, press his hand against her face, before finally pushing the nail in his coffin by insisting that he wouldn't be going anywhere now that she was expecting his child.

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in the blessed hush of her nearness


Good God! What a line!



So put some spice in my sauce, honey in my tea, an ace up my sleeve and a slinkyplanb

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She's basically a bird in a gilded cage who makes sure to trap other people in that world too.


I love that line. Especially with the time period being the Gilded Age.

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My thoughts exactly! Behind that innocent-looking face is a manipulative and cunning bitch!

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Well technically she doesn't qualify as a petty thief. What she did constituted grand larceny.

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[deleted]

she's played by Winona Ryder, a so-called "actress" who is the same in everything she does.
I don't know that this is really a fair criticism. Movie stars become stars because they project certain traits the public likes to see: Is Clint Eastwood "different" in many (if any) of his movies? Susan Sarandon is great, and while she projected more innocence when young (when SHE was more innocent) (The Rocky Horror Picture Show, The Other Side of Midnight), she usually plays the gutsy, courageous, sexy woman of independence.

Daniel Day Lewis changes his appearance and bearing. So does Meryl Streep, when it suits her to do so. But most movie actors do NOT change....and that is why we love them. They represent specific virtues or qualities that we like to check in with, or identify with.

One type of acting is to apparently become different people, separate from the performer. Another is conveying emotion with (seeming) honesty...specific emotions that support and forward a specific story. Winona Ryder has done that in many, many films.




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I'm just here to state that May is my favorite character. Anyone who dislikes May is simply doltish. Of what is she guilty? Being human? God forbid that she give Newland many chances to decide if he truly wants to marry her, and when finally married to him she tries to maintain it. Is she supposed to welcome her husbands infidelity with open arms? Please.

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I think the sympathy for Newland comes from the fact that people want to see people who really love each other be together. Newland does not love May, he feels a societal obligation only. Folks are disappointed in the ending because it is sad to see 2 people who love each -- Newland and Ellen -- forgo a life together.

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I think, if nothing else, May represents a kind of cold-hearted pragmatism versus Newland and Ellen's idealism. May knows the rules of New York society inside and out, and decides firmly that's how life is, and there can be no other way. Newland and Ellen dream of how life can be, and when they threaten the rigid pattern of life New York society is used to, they are destroyed from within. May even says, rather condescendingly in the novel, "We can't live our lives as in the novels!" (I'm only paraphrasing, but you get the idea).
The sad thing is, May was right. Breaking the rules of Old New York's society was easier said then done, and Newland and Ellen both suffered for it.

"Will you stop feeling sorry for yourself?! It's bad for your complexion!"-"Sixteen Candles"

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Well then Newland should have divorced May. Instead Newland preferred adultery! To divorce May would not have been the complete ending of his world for Ellen did try to divorce her husband and was not completely shunned at all. Newland was cowardly. For all his negative criticism of New York society during the time, he surely did feel compelled to stay within it, saving his face. If it weren't for Ellen being of logical, moralistic, and a loving cousin Newland would have been living his life as a philandering man. May did not deserve to have her husband schedule 19th century booty calls with her cousin. She did not deserve to be lied to by Newland. She did not deserve to go into a marriage believing her husband to truly love her and desire her as a wife only to figure out that he is trying to runaway from her to foreign lands while she is pregnant with their child. Honestly? To hell with pity for the character Newland.

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She did not deserve to go into a marriage believing her husband to truly love her and desire her as a wife only to figure out that he is trying to runaway from her to foreign lands while she is pregnant with their child.

But May knew before they married that Nwnland loved Ellen. While it's true that May "gave Newland an out" as others have pointed out in this thread, it's also true that May knew that Newland wasn't in love with her. She understood that the choice Newland made to marry her wasn't based on loving her, but preferring the safety of convention rather than trying to buck convention by choosing a life with Ellen. May knew that she "won" Newland, but not his love. She didn't care. She wanted the prize, so she married him.

Incidentally, I'n not on Newland's "side." I'm not taking sides, just calling them as I see them.

Analyzing May is more complicated than simply seeing her as a wronged woman trying to keep her family together. There's so much more to it than that, which is what makes this complex story so fascinating.

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Newland also knew that leaving May in the midst of an engagement for another woman -- a married woman at that -- could also render May ineligible for another engagement or marriage, in the eyes of their society. He was too attached to propriety to leave May in that situation.

Anyone who thinks that May is "simply doing xyz" has never read or understood Edith Wharton. There is never anything simple about her characters and plots.

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May is the smartest.
Newland is a dumbass.
Ellen is the most honest.

Personally, May represents all that I fear in women. Brr.

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May might have been manipulative but at least she stuck by her decisions and fought for it. Ellen to some degree is the same. Newland is the only character I can't stand. Very weak and passive. I get the feeling even if he had run off with Ellen, he would have still been miserable, and will regret the life he left behind. His weakness is his inability to deal with what life hands to him. He keeps on saying he has no choice...he was trapped...blah blah. Oh well...we're all dealt with cards that we wish were different, but ultimately, our happiness lies in acceptance of those cards if we don't have the balls to change or buck convention. Newland refused to do either and in so doing, he lived a half-life. I think he was doomed to do the same even with Ellen. It was just his character. One foot in, one foot out.

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I think you've given Ellen too much credit. Yes, she bucked the trend once before so far away in Europe, but she suffered the consequences for that and suffered them greatly. In fact, she suffered them enough to realise that to do so the second time, particularly so close to home and with one as close to her as her "cousin" (as she calls him, i.e. Newland), would end whatever semblance of respect she held within that familial enclave while also letting down the few people she genuinely loved and cared for, such as her grandmother.

That's why she posed that rhetorical question to Newland in the carriage after asking him whether he'd want her to be his mistress, "Is there anywhere we can be happy behind the backs of people who TRUST US?"
His meek response was, "I'm beyond caring about that?"
To which she reminds, both him and herself, "No you're not! You've never been beyond that!"
And neither would she in this particular instance, for she concludes, "I have. I know what it looks like; it's no place for us!"

Why do you think his reaction, after being given such an absolute devastating reality check, was to exit the carriage? He had no solution or response.

Just listen at her despairing sigh at the end of that scene - intense!

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<But May knew before they married that Nwnland loved Ellen. While it's true that May "gave Newland an out" as others have pointed out in this thread, it's also true that May knew that Newland wasn't in love with her. She understood that the choice Newland made to marry her wasn't based on loving her, but preferring the safety of convention rather than trying to buck convention by choosing a life with Ellen. May knew that she "won" Newland, but not his love. She didn't care. She wanted the prize, so she married him. >

I don't know. At the end of the film, the narrator says May died believing the world a good place full of good people. Earlier in the film, she's described as being innocent of all the intrigues going on around her. I doubt she was a very intelligent or imaginative woman. I think she loved Newland, and I think Newland cared for her as well. I think she never had any doubt that Newland would marry her.






Don's going to fix it. He knows what that nut means to Utz and what Utz means to us.

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You've got to hand it to May for getting Granny Mingott to send Ellen off to Europe - despite Granny Mingott's devotion to Ellen. It's amazing how May turns from a bland-seeming young girl into such a hard-nosed woman.

I don't know why there's so much anti-Newland though. He's basically a man living in the wrong place at the wrong time - he's too much of a romantic to be living among so much hypocrisy and rigidity. He proposes to May because he sees so much goodness in her (i.e. projects his ideals on to her bland exterior) and then can't decently extricate himself from it when he realises she isn't what he needs.

I don't know how many people here would be able to break away from everything they know and cast themselves adrift in the world for love - or to resist love completely for the sake of propriety.

And his "affair" with Ellen is hardly straightforward - she's with Julius Beaufort for most of it, and she keeps telling Newland how impossible it would be for them to be together. Quite apart from her being married to someone else, so that Newland hardly has a choice between her and May before their wedding.

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[deleted]

But May knew before they married that Nwnland loved Ellen. While it's true that May "gave Newland an out" as others have pointed out in this thread, it's also true that May knew that Newland wasn't in love with her. She understood that the choice Newland made to marry her wasn't based on loving her, but preferring the safety of convention rather than trying to buck convention by choosing a life with Ellen. May knew that she "won" Newland, but not his love. She didn't care. She wanted the prize, so she married him.
I don't agree that May regarded her marriage with Newland simply as a "prize". The film doesn't show us the relationship between Newland and May before Ellen's arrival. It is possible that he was genuinely in love with her - "as much in love as a man can be". In any case, I felt it was clear that May loved Newland deeply. My impression is that May wasn't just fighting for propriety in seeking to separate Newland from Ellen; she was fighting to retain the love of the man she loved.

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My impression is that May wasn't just fighting for propriety in seeking to separate Newland from Ellen; she was fighting to retain the love of the man she loved.


My impression is that May wasn't just fighting for propriety in seeking to separate Newland from:

1.) Ellen
2.) the man with clever conversation (whom May thought was "common"), whom Newland suggested they might entertain/invite to dine

#2 represents pretty much anything/everything Newland might become interested in, which wasn't 100% conforming to the status quo.

May means to separate Newland from ALL of it, and keep him conforming exactly as she is.

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May's motive is what's important. She told Ellen she was pregnant before knowing so that she could protect her investment (Archer).

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Investment is right. May was all about business. She, to me, was the strongest character between the three. She knew what she wanted and knew how to get it and keep it. She knew how to make herself happy, keep the family name going, and make sure her family was taken care of. She was bold enough to confront Archer and give him a chance to back out.

She was going to get married whether it was Archer or not because she was focused on what was important in her world. It's not her fault that Archer chose a world he didn't want to please a woman he did want. May had a family to raise and traditions to uphold. Their dinner before Ellen was "sent off" said it all. May discreetly rallied the troups. She was in power. She got what she wanted. She was steering the boat that Ellen and Archer were afraid to rock.

She's not likeable, she's not nice, but she's not exactly a doormat. Lol

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Exactly, and that's the reason why there is so much anti-May sentiment. She put on a front as someone oblivious to what was happening while secretly manipulating the situation to her advantage. The most shocking revelation in the movie is the moment when the viewer realizes that she knew exactly what was going on all along.

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<< I'm not exactly sure why people dislike May so much, except that she "prevents" Newland from running off with Ellen. >>

I think it's because May is obviously manipulative (in a dewy, underhanded way), whereas Ellen is completely straightforward, in a way we respect and expect today.

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Edith Wharton was sooooo good on having her characters "turn the tables" in surprise endings. If you liked that aspect of this film, you must read her short story "Roman Fever." Guaranteed you will say "I didn't see that coming!" at the end.

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Okey-doke! Thanks for the suggestion : )

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Do people who watched this and Goodfellas believe that May and Jimmy Conway are very similar. Both may not have book smarts but they are very manipulative and very smart when it comes to working around in their society and that lets them get away with a lot of murders and the fact they smile at Newland/Henry and say that they are there friend but the audience realizes that they are trying to control or manipulate them. I argue that Jimmy was the most dangerous person in Goodfellas not Tommy because was very secretive.

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