Why Alice jumped


Hi everyone,

Please help me settle a debate. My mother thinks Alice jumped off the cliff because she wanted to join the man she loved, Uncas, in death.

I think she's reading too much between the lines. I believe Alice jumped to escape being tortured and raped by Magua and his men. Magua even turns to her with a lascivious stare; then there's a shot of his knife shining in his hand, poised and ready to slice her open. Native Americans often raped white women and scalped them (white men did this to them after all).

What do you all think?

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[deleted]

She jumped because she dropped some orange sunshine and thought she could fly!

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Wow, you must be the funniest kid in your fourth grade class.

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"Native Americans often raped white women and scalped them (white men did this to them after all)."
Why would it be surprising if some tribes or 'war parties or whatever did this.
In war and conflict, rape happens. Ask the Vikings. Look at the Eastern Front in WWII.
However I doubt they would scalp women. I thought they only scalped warriors.

She probably jumped cause she thought her sister was dead, rescue failed and thought she was going to be gangraped or something. Far as I know she didn't understand French.
I wished they expanded on the Alice/Uncus relationship more after that last fifteen minutes. Just one little scene with actual dialogue.
Was there a deleted scene??

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They didn't have any Alice/Uncas love scenes because Johdi May's stupid helicopter mother stuck around the set and allow any to be made.

Anyway, Alice jumped because she knew Uncas was dead and would rather die than be touched by Mogwa.

--
"House. My room. Can't walk. My medal. My father. Father, don't!"

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What Omega said.

In the original script, there were love scenes (or at least one) between Alice and Uncas that would have shed some light on why Alice jumped at the end. However, Jodhi May was a minor at the time of filming, and her mother objected to any love scenes between her and Eric Schweig. It really is too bad. Just one or two scenes from the director's original 3 hour cut would go miles toward showing what motivated Alice to jump. Without them, the scene remains slightly ambiguous.

If you've heard of it, it's already too mainstream for me.

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The deleted scenes show uncas and her making love under the waterfall. She jumped to be w him.

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Deleted scene, or rather, deleted from the script, but would have made more sense to her suicidal plunge

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I'm glad the scene wasn't included. It would be too far out of character for both of them and frankly, it would have made me think much less of Uncas. Their romance was much more intense the way it was - with the looks and the one "cuddling" scene. Not everything needs to be explicit.

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Ok, Marcel proust...lol. I agree

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Good, now I'm going to go eat a cookie. And dream about Uncas :-) Lol!

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Funny the women who watch the movie all fall in love w Uncas...Daniel day isn't the looker the director thought lol, but he can act great.one of the best

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brilliant

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[deleted]

ha ha ha you azz...thats hillarious

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what a total retard

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Moron

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Read the the thread http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104691/board/nest/85800122

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Read the the thread http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104691/board/nest/85800122


Your link sucks fwdixoniii!

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Alice jumped because her life had become intollerable. She was not nearly as strong willed as Cora and had become overwhelmed. She tried to kill herself earlier by jumping through the waterfall before Uncas stopped her. By the time she finally jumped she knew her father was dead, believed her sister was dead, and could only see pain in her future. She broke.

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It isn't referred to much in the movie, but in the actual novel, Alice and Uncas were the ones in love, NOT Cora and Hawkeye. They had a friendly relationship, but they weren't in love. It was Uncas and Cora who were in love in the actual novel.

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[deleted]

"It isn't referred to much in the movie, but in the actual novel, Alice and Uncas were the ones in love, NOT Cora and Hawkeye. They had a friendly relationship, but they weren't in love. It was Uncas and Cora who were in love in the actual novel."

Next thing you're going to say is that Uncas and Hawkeye were in love, or Alice and Cora. Which is it?!

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[deleted]

This is all wrong! In the book Heyward is in love with Alice, she's always referred to as the more beautiful but less strong-willed of the sisters. Hawkeye doesn't really fall in love with anyone, and neither does Uncas. It is also Cora who is killed in the book, not Alice.

In the book, Magua is the only one who really takes a special interest in Cora, and wants to take her as a wife, to humiliate her and take lifelong revenge for the sins of her father.

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[deleted]

Yes. Alice and Uncas are Julet and Romeo.

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Exactly.
A friend was asking me why I love this movie so much, I told her because of the love story, not so much the history part. She started to go on about Cora and Hawkeye, and I'm like, no! no, not them! It's the love story between Uncas and Alice. All through the movie they give furtive looks. The scene behind the waterfall takes my breath away. He really loved her and she him.
Plus, I read the book. Cora was destined to be with someone like Hawkeye already. The more interesting story was with Incas and Alice.

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Incas had a most interesting culture. It's not hard to imagine what Alice saw in them.

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I tend to agree with the other posters, death was a better alternative to whatever Magua had in store for her. What would you do? Take the hand of someone who is vicious, holding a knife, and this is supposed to be your husband? Or, jump? I'd rather jump. After all she had been through I don't think she had the faith to stick around.

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I don't think there is any question that Alice and Uncas were an item. It is not as romanticized as Hawkeye's and Cora's, however if you watch closely you can see that they were also in love. I think his death, combined with her father's was just too much. Also, the movie shows Magua lower his knife and raise his other hand and motions her away from the cliff. I think he actually started to feel sorry for her and for a brief moment wanted to save her.

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They were in love re watch the movie, ive seen it a million times and there are parts in the movie that leads you to that conclusion,jesus people

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Alice was not in love with Magua, what on earth were you smoking? And non-christians also visit these boards, mister gatekeeper!

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yep, not sure why people needed a love scene to tell them that.

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You missed it completely. For whatever reason, Magua offered his hand in peace to Alice, regardless of what was in his hand. Lascivous? Hardly.

"Native Americans often raped white women and scalped them (white men did this to them after all)."

They may have raped a few, but it was far more likely for a white man to rape a Native American woman, and still is. Native American woman are statistically more likely to be raped by someone outside of her race than any other race in this country.

Scalping was originally a French practice, with the Native Americans utilizing it mainly against those they viewed as being cowardly on the field of battle.

I'm not sure about that particular tribe, but as far as most tribes go, they treated their prisoners so well that they often had no wish to return to their old lives.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

In the script (found at http://www.awesomefilm.com/script/lastmohi.txt) it's made clear that she jumps to join Uncas, her 'lover'. She becomes utterly calm when she sees Uncas cut down by Magua. She looks at Magua, and this stirs something which had been missing since his children were killed by the english.

Excerpt from the script:

"MAGUA

Moves on Alice. His knife is low, about to strike. She stares at him. Her eyes are like pools of deep water, calm, open, almost beatific. It stops Magua ...

MAGUA

inexplicably, drops his knife hand. He's riveted by her. About him, there's a glimmer of something else. He wears a human face for this one moment. He reaches out with his other hand to offer her safety. To bring her back from the edge ...

ALICE

looks down at Uncas, her lover, dead on the rocks below. She turns to Magua with
enigmatic calm. Her eyes seem to see into him. She steps off the edge. She falls to her death next to Uncas ..."

So, OP, your mother had it right :)

Hope this clears things up.

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[deleted]

she loved him, he loved her. it was pretty obvious though it wasn't obvious.
oh, and he was freaking hot. who wouldn't fall in love with him? lol.

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oh, and he was freaking hot. who wouldn't fall in love with him? lol.

-I totally agree! I'm so glad someone finally said it out loud.

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agreed! he was my first 'famous' person crush when i was a kid, yummy! XD

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Agreed he was very much a dream boat. But yes The Lewis was good looking with long hair too but Eric'a dark thick brows with his dream dark brown eyes. Ooooh!!!

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My truth is in my belt, besides, I can run and load a long rifle at the same time! Also, the blood is not yet dry on the hatchet, and you want to bury it?

I'm gonna jump!

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"So, OP, your mother had it right :)"


Only if you are discussing the script and not the actual movie.

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It seemed pretty obvious to me that he made a semi-conciliatory gesture to the girl. I mean he wasn't going to take her to Disneyland, but you could see some sense of human understanding in his eyes.

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"They may have raped a few, but it was far more likely for a white man to rape a Native American woman, and still is. Native American woman are statistically more likely to be raped by someone outside of her race than any other race in this country."

Is that a fact? Would you mind citing the source of these statistics so that I may become enlightened?

And to try to tell someone else the reason behind her jumping is fact and you're wrong if you think differently is a discredit to the film. Ambiguity allows the viewer to design meanings behind certain scenes according to their own personal preferences or sensibilities. A great film can mean different things to different people because it allows the audience to fill in the blanks.

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I know this was 5 years ago and you prob already looked it up :). But I am native (Chiricahua Apache) and yes 1/3 native woman are sexual assaulted and over 90% of them are by a person of another race . Our race is second most targeted race behind African Americans for hate crimes. Most of it is our woman being sexually assaulted . It pains me if someone hates us so bad why would they want to touch one of our woman . I'm very protective of my girlfriend for this reason . It sucks .

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This scene is so powerful; I can watch it over and over. Here's what I see:

After Uncas is killed, she is bewildered and lost. I don't think she's thinking of suicide quite yet. She's unsure of herself but she knows she wants to be away from Magua and his troops--the only direction to do so is towards the cliff.

Magua's is playing this scene out in his mind a little faster than she is and I think he considers that she might commit suicide before she even does. He moves towards her in a threatening manner. This is Magua, after all, and his first recourse is force and intimidation.

Alice looks down, and for the first time consciously realizes what her subconscious was already putting into play. Maybe she looked down just to see Uncas, but when she looks up, she's changed. It's the strongest we have ever seen her in the whole movie. Her thing with Uncas is only in a fledgling state, and I don't see it as being a strong enough motivation by itself for her suicide. I do think she realizes that out of this whole ordeal, the only prize Magua has been able to get for himself was her. Now her only weapon against him is to take that prize away.

Magua sees the change. He's savvy enough to realize that this a force of will that Alice has never shown before. He's intrigued; I daresay he has found a new respect for her. He lowers his knife and extends his hand. It is intended to be non-threatening. He's switched from coercing to coaxing.

His gesture seals her fate. The change in Magua's demeanor proves to Alice that he has placed some value upon her. It's the only way she can hurt him. She steps off.

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Sapper80, I completely agree with your interpretation, you've included everything...

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@ sapper80

I was thinking of replying to this topic, but you've made that redundant. Your explanation is spot-on in my opinion. I also don't see it as merely giving up, that would be going along with Magua to do what he wants of her. I see it as her only chance to exert control over herself and determining her fate, hurting Magua in the process, as well as "joining" Uncas. There are many emotions and reasons for her jumping, all captured in those few haunting seconds, but I don't see it as merely giving up, she ends up stronger than that. Brilliant scene. The last ten minutes of this film are utterly great, full of powerful and different emotions.

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sapper80, that was very well put. Your analysis is spot-on.

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Exactly! It is the strongest she had ever been in the film.

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One of the reasons i like this movie is its subtlety. In the beginning, you could sense that Cora and Hawkeye are attracted to each other - though it is shown in a subtle way. The feelings between Uncas and Alice are even more subtle. There are one or two scenes where you will see Uncas gazing (longingly?) at at Alice. And there is one scene where Alice seems to return his gaze.
When Alice was taken away, it is evident in Uncas' reaction that he felt strongly for Alice. I think Alice likes UNcas, though not as passionately as he feels for her. Seeing him, her would-be savior, get killed might have snapped what little hope she had.

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She didn't intentionally jump, she just forgot to hook up the bungee cord.

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You have to be blind if you can't see the whole thing between Alice and Uncas

Omae wa mo shinderu

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[deleted]

she jumps because magua will kill her and uncas is dead, it also deprives magua of what he most wanted, to personally wipe out the seed of munro. Wtf was that person before saying magua felt sorry for her - not likely at all. he wanted to end her life and hence had to try and lead her away from the cliff.

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[deleted]

Arch....well said. I couldn't agree with you more. Tis easier for some to believe that Alice jumped because of love lost, but only because we know from interviews and such that there was more to Uncas & Alice than we were shown. BUT...since we were not shown this blossomed relationship, your theory is the only one that makes sense. thanx for the post.

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[deleted]

aww Arch...thanx heaps...but am afraid you'd leave me gobsmacked....lol

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As someone already pointed out....in the book...the 'love' is between Alice and Uncas....not Nathaniel and Cora. There were many changes from the book to movie and I think anybody who enjoyed this movie should read the novel too.

The first time I saw LOTM I hadn't read the book in many many years and had quite forgotten that fact. Yet, throughout the movie I felt the attraction between Uncas and Alice (no, it wasn't just one-way, but you have to actually be paying attention to catch that it goes both directions).

Were they "in love"? Well, without the deleted scenes it's hard to say about "love". Yet, even with those parts of the movie on the cutting room floor, you'd have to be a dunce, or emotionally dead, not to feel the attraction they both felt for each other.

As to why she jumped, it's obvious that she didn't want what Magua offered. With Uncas dead, her father dead, her sister quite possibly dead, I'm sure she felt it was the 'easiest' and 'best' choice left available to her.

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If you were being forced to boff that
ugly bastard, you'd jump too!!

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Lol! I would have completely pashed him... Magua rules!

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[deleted]

Amen.

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