Many Flaws with these movies


I don’t know about you, but I have serious issues with these movies. Okay, so Wyld Stallyns music becomes a uniting force in the world creating a utopian society in the future. Bills father was about to send him to military school and in the process he would have broken up the band and Bill and Ted wouldn’t have become who they are destined to be. In an effort to maintain their time line the future sends back Rufus to make sure they pass their history report, thus creating a causality loop or John Connor Paradox. (John Connors birth would have never occurred if a Terminator were not sent back in time to stop his birth) My understanding of temporal mechanics, limited as it may be, forces me to not accept this as possible. The ripples on the water can not precede the pebble, so to speak.

Then in the sequel De Nomolos attempts to go back in time in order to stop Wyld Stallyns from winning the battle of the bands. We then realize that if he hadn’t gone back in time Bill and Ted would have never had a time machine available in order to go back in time to take music lessons and subsequently win the battle of the band creating another John Connor Paradox, and raising several other issues as well.

First of all in the first movie we learn that the clock in San Dimas is always running but they are some how able to leave the battle of the bands for several months in order to learn how to play their instruments, this contradicts their own laws of time travel.

Secondly, since this all needed to occur in order to create the future he came from wouldn’t De Nomolos know that he was doomed to failure. As demonstrated by the Twelve Monkeys Principal a time traveler can see his own imprint on history, recorded in the historical record. The only difference is that there was an immense biological disaster in Twelve Monkeys that explained the lack of a complete historical record, the idyllic future from Bill and Ted would rule out this possibility. One could argue that the government covered up De Nomolos involvement to ensure events transpired uninterrupted, but I don’t feel that this type of Orwellian cover-up could occur in the type of society described in the movie.

Another serious problem with the first film is the fact that they kidnap key members of history without any thought to the repercussions. I know that if someone just stepped out of a phone booth that appeared out no where, kidnapped me, and took me hundreds or even thousands of years into the future my world view would be irrevocably altered. Not only were these individuals exposed to technologies far beyond their own understanding, but they were present at an A+ level history report detailing their entire existence including things that had yet to occur in their lives including, one can only assume, the date of their death (A historical speech about Abe Lincoln is pretty tough to do without including a little incident a Ford’s Theater). I can only imagine what some of these people would do with that information.

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I don’t know about you, but I have serious issues with these movies. Okay, so Wyld Stallyns music becomes a uniting force in the world creating a utopian society in the future. Bills father was about to send him to military school and in the process he would have broken up the band and Bill and Ted wouldn’t have become who they are destined to be. In an effort to maintain their time line the future sends back Rufus to make sure they pass their history report, thus creating a causality loop or John Connor Paradox. (John Connors birth would have never occurred if a Terminator were not sent back in time to stop his birth) My understanding of temporal mechanics, limited as it may be, forces me to not accept this as possible. The ripples on the water can not precede the pebble, so to speak.

Then in the sequel De Nomolos attempts to go back in time in order to stop Wyld Stallyns from winning the battle of the bands. We then realize that if he hadn’t gone back in time Bill and Ted would have never had a time machine available in order to go back in time to take music lessons and subsequently win the battle of the band creating another John Connor Paradox, and raising several other issues as well.

First of all in the first movie we learn that the clock in San Dimas is always running but they are some how able to leave the battle of the bands for several months in order to learn how to play their instruments, this contradicts their own laws of time travel.

Secondly, since this all needed to occur in order to create the future he came from wouldn’t De Nomolos know that he was doomed to failure. As demonstrated by the Twelve Monkeys Principal a time traveler can see his own imprint on history, recorded in the historical record. The only difference is that there was an immense biological disaster in Twelve Monkeys that explained the lack of a complete historical record, the idyllic future from Bill and Ted would rule out this possibility. One could argue that the government covered up De Nomolos involvement to ensure events transpired uninterrupted, but I don’t feel that this type of Orwellian cover-up could occur in the type of society described in the movie.

Another serious problem with the first film is the fact that they kidnap key members of history without any thought to the repercussions. I know that if someone just stepped out of a phone booth that appeared out no where, kidnapped me, and took me hundreds or even thousands of years into the future my world view would be irrevocably altered. Not only were these individuals exposed to technologies far beyond their own understanding, but they were present at an A+ level history report detailing their entire existence including things that had yet to occur in their lives including, one can only assume, the date of their death (A historical speech about Abe Lincoln is pretty tough to do without including a little incident a Ford’s Theater). I can only imagine what some of these people would do with that information.

Bogus!

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You are thinking WAAYY too much about this movie. I mean this is freakin' Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey. Who cares about the space time continuim. I think I could understand someone writing a post like this about the Back to the Future films, but Bill and Ted? Give me a break.

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I mean this is freakin' Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey. Who cares about the space time continuim.


The writers did, and their time travel logic is flawless.

I think I could understand someone writing a post like this about the Back to the Future films


Back to the Future's time travel logic is terribly flawed, on the other hand.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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I was just about to bring up back to the future. I bet their board has lots of these types of discussions. I think the time travel rules of the movie actually are a good Indication of how brilliant this movie really was. On the surface, people think it's just a movie that makes up its own time travel rules, just like on the surface it appears to be a silly movie for teens. But looking in depth, it may possibly be the best example of true time travel, whereas looking in depth the writing has many jokes and references that are deeper and funnier than people realize.
To be honest, I didn't think much of the time travel rules in B and T bc it appeared to make its own rules up. Back to the future seemed more realistic and easier to comprehend. I had never heard of the Hawking rules you guys are talking about till now, but I have to admit they are fascinating to think about and I'm going to try and read more. It took awhile just to comprehend what he was saying, but once I got it(I think I do anyway) it seems like a great possibility. It's just hard To accept that your path is set and there is nothing you can do to change it I guess. The Sit Up champion of the future also couldn't comprehend this lol. I wonder if the writers meant to be this brilliant or if it was an accident? I'm thinking it was intentional and they were much smarter than given credit for.

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I was just about to bring up back to the future. I bet their board has lots of these types of discussions. I think the time travel rules of the movie actually are a good Indication of how brilliant this movie really was. On the surface, people think it's just a movie that makes up its own time travel rules, just like on the surface it appears to be a silly movie for teens. But looking in depth, it may possibly be the best example of true time travel, whereas looking in depth the writing has many jokes and references that are deeper and funnier than people realize.


It's certainly the most consistent uses of the self consistency principle. There is no alternate series of events. There was never really a chance that Bill and Ted would fail their exam or lose the battle of the bands.

When we get to Bogus Journey, we find out why. God has their back. It's also why they were able to defeat Death. He's not mad because he's a sore loser, he's mad because he's never lost before. But he can't possibly win, because God overrules Death(at least in this movie).

To be honest, I didn't think much of the time travel rules in B and T bc it appeared to make its own rules up.


I would say a lot of people do the same thing. On the surface it appears to. The way Bill and Ted go around setting things up. It uses what was a lesser known form of time travel, self consistent time travel. Which while it makes more logical sense and less likely to produce paradoxes, it's hard for people to wrap their minds around.

The idea that time travel can only create the future one is attempting to alter is one that people have a hard time with. I've seen a lot of people try to figure out what the original sequence of events were. But we're seeing the original sequence of events. Rufus always goes back in time to help Bill and Ted pass their report. People have a hard time conceiving of a timeline where effect can proceed cause.

Bill and Ted basically follows the same rules as The Terminator. Only it's more consistent in following those rules. Ted's watch is a good example, as even though he reminds himself to wind his watch, he's doomed to forget because that's what always happens.

The Sit Up champion of the future also couldn't comprehend this


True. Even after Rufus explains it to him, in what seems to be a throw away line. De Nomolos says "Time will tell" to which Rufus replies "Time has told." We just don't realize just how accurate that statement is at the time.

I wonder if the writers meant to be this brilliant or if it was an accident? I'm thinking it was intentional and they were much smarter than given credit for.


I can't imagine time travel rules being so consistent throughout both movies by accident. Let's keep in mind that one of the writers of this movie(Chris Matheson) is the son of one of the greatest sci-fi writers of all time, Richard Matheson, who apparently gave them notes.

I agree that is was absolutely intentional. As I said, I can't imagine being this consistent by accident.

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I refer you to the MST3K theme song...

"If you're wondering how he eats and breathes / And other science facts / Then repeat to yourself, 'It's just a show, I should really just relax.'"

The Falcon flies

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