Many Flaws with these movies


I don’t know about you, but I have serious issues with these movies. Okay, so Wyld Stallyns music becomes a uniting force in the world creating a utopian society in the future. Bills father was about to send him to military school and in the process he would have broken up the band and Bill and Ted wouldn’t have become who they are destined to be. In an effort to maintain their time line the future sends back Rufus to make sure they pass their history report, thus creating a causality loop or John Connor Paradox. (John Connors birth would have never occurred if a Terminator were not sent back in time to stop his birth) My understanding of temporal mechanics, limited as it may be, forces me to not accept this as possible. The ripples on the water can not precede the pebble, so to speak.

Then in the sequel De Nomolos attempts to go back in time in order to stop Wyld Stallyns from winning the battle of the bands. We then realize that if he hadn’t gone back in time Bill and Ted would have never had a time machine available in order to go back in time to take music lessons and subsequently win the battle of the band creating another John Connor Paradox, and raising several other issues as well.

First of all in the first movie we learn that the clock in San Dimas is always running but they are some how able to leave the battle of the bands for several months in order to learn how to play their instruments, this contradicts their own laws of time travel.

Secondly, since this all needed to occur in order to create the future he came from wouldn’t De Nomolos know that he was doomed to failure. As demonstrated by the Twelve Monkeys Principal a time traveler can see his own imprint on history, recorded in the historical record. The only difference is that there was an immense biological disaster in Twelve Monkeys that explained the lack of a complete historical record, the idyllic future from Bill and Ted would rule out this possibility. One could argue that the government covered up De Nomolos involvement to ensure events transpired uninterrupted, but I don’t feel that this type of Orwellian cover-up could occur in the type of society described in the movie.

Another serious problem with the first film is the fact that they kidnap key members of history without any thought to the repercussions. I know that if someone just stepped out of a phone booth that appeared out no where, kidnapped me, and took me hundreds or even thousands of years into the future my world view would be irrevocably altered. Not only were these individuals exposed to technologies far beyond their own understanding, but they were present at an A+ level history report detailing their entire existence including things that had yet to occur in their lives including, one can only assume, the date of their death (A historical speech about Abe Lincoln is pretty tough to do without including a little incident a Ford’s Theater). I can only imagine what some of these people would do with that information.

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Temporal mechanics is by no means full of hard and fast rules, only speculative theories. The simple truth of the matter is there are a ton of ideas on how things might work, almost none of them agree with each other, and nobody will know which ones are right or wrong until one of them ends up proven somehow, which we can't do at our current level of technological development.

Much more importantly, the "Bill and Ted" films are not documentaries, or even hard scifi films. They are goofball comedies which use their own version of time travel theory as a plot device, in order to be able to tell the story they want. Complaining about scientific inaccuracy in "Bill and Ted" makes about as much sense as complaining about "Bugs Bunny" cartoons because rabbits can't actually talk.

-- Rob
http://robvincent.net http://nyc2600.net

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They are hard sci-fi, actually. The time travel logic follows the self consistency principle. It's not their own. It was conceived of by Igor Dmitriyevich Novikov.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov_self-consistency_principle

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Do you watch the show Timeless on NBC? The have been lots of threads about things like discussed here on Bill and Ted, I tried to send some of them here to see this discussion and how it compared to Timeless. I think bill and Ted are more consistent than the Timeless forms of time travel

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No, there's no paradox. Like Terminator, the Bill & Ted movies use the fixed timeline model of time travel (based on the 'Arrow of Time' theory by Stephen Hawking), which states that everything that will happen has already happened, time travel included. In other words, the future has already been written, and also that no amount of time travel will be able to alter the present.

So with this model, if someone were to go back in time now and try to kill Hitler's great-grandparents, he will definitely not succeed - something or other will happen to stop it from happening - because in our timeline, Hitler existed, and nothing will be able to change that.

In the context of Bill & Ted, the timeline was such that Rufus was always going to go back in time to prevent them from breaking up. In the future utopian world, Rufus' trip would have been recorded in their history even before he actually made it.

Likewise in the sequel, the timeline of that world always involved DeNomolos going back in time and having his plans foiled. Although he may have known that changing history was impossible, perhaps he thought that he might be able to do so nonetheless; that maybe it would be different for him, or maybe he just believed in a different form of time travel.

On the history report - we saw the whole thing in the movie, and none of their deaths were mentioned. The purpose of the history report was not to give an account of the historical figures' lives, but rather to just say what they thought of San Dimas. So it is unlikely that they would have got hold of any undesirable information (eg regarding their dates of death), especially with the dismal state of Bill and Ted's knowledge of history. Also, they had been in a rush to get to the presentation in time - no time to tell the historical figures anything about their lives.

First of all in the first movie we learn that the clock in San Dimas is always running but they are some how able to leave the battle of the bands for several months in order to learn how to play their instruments, this contradicts their own laws of time travel.


It was several years, not several months. And this doesn't contradict their own laws of time travel. Bill and Ted made the decision to return one day in the future to that time, and so they did. The only thing that would have not made their future selves appear would be them forgetting to do so, or some other thing getting in their way.

They used the same technique in the first movie with Ted's father's keys. They resolved to go into the future, get the keys, and go back in time to place it behind the sign where they then found it. As the timeline is fixed, any future time travel has already happened, and so their future selves had already gone back in time to put the keys there.

In fact, the fixed timeline model of time travel is about the only one where paradoxes are virtually impossible. The only problem with it is that it implies a deterministic universe, and thus a lack of free will to do anything other than what has already been established in the timeline.

----
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face.

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[deleted]

It's simple really.


You're reading too far into it.

"Have you ever noticed how men always leave the toilet seat up? That's the joke."

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Hahahahahahaha!

It's Bill and fecking Ted for god's sake!

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Hahahahahahaha!

It's Bill and fecking Ted for god's sake!
I can't agree much more strongly with that comment. Having a geek discussion about this topic is a pretty strong indication of not getting the tone of the film, lol.

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No, thinking this movie is a comedy, and thus nothing in the movie can be discussed seriously is a strong indication that you don't know what "film" is.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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It's a Bill & Ted film, dude. Lighten up and have fun with it.


In a world ruled by the dead, we are forced to finally start living.

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Reese122, it is a very simplistic movie and you understood nothing of it.

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It's actually a lot more complex than people give it credit for. While yes, it is a silly comedy, it treats time travel with great respect and follows its own rules to a T.

The new home of Welcome to Planet Bob: http://kingofbob.blogspot.ca/

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You F-ing nerd...there is no reason to question this movie, this throughly
you wasted your time writing and my time reading...Not saying you dont have a point but my god ITS BILL AND TED...not much thought should be invested in the story

www.myspace.com/metarzan

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Also,when missy first sees the historical figures with Bill and Ted,isnt that on the day when they are meant to be giving their report in,which is a school day,so how come she wasnt wondering why they werent at school ?.Also,there were alot of people in the mall considering it was a school day,so there could have been school kids there,and it looked like alot of adults werent in work,and why did ted's dad not wonder why they werent in school when they were at the police station ?.

I might have missed something,but i'm sure it was supposed to be on the same day ,just maybe at a different time ?.I dont think it should have been the day before,as they started doing their report at night then.


I love the first film.I've only seen bits of the sequel,but i'd like to see it again all the way through,and came here to read about it.

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Wow, you are reading WAY too deep into this. Get a life man. Seriously. If you can't watch movies like Bill and Ted and just enjoy them, you really need to reexamine your life.

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what I dont understand is where does ted find time from being in an awesome band to wake up from the matrix to kick the robots butt, become buddah after saving that bus from going to slow and defending the earth from demons before destroying it all with some aliens and falling in love with sandra bullock a couple times and killing dracula?? plus i think Logan is a much better name than Mnemonic.. why would he change it??????

MY GOD THE QUESTIONS!! !THEY NEED ANSWERS OR I CAN HAVE NO ENJOYMENT OF THE FILIMS!!


suspension of disbelief is a tool.
USE IT FOOL!


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You people ripping on the OP are simply jackasses. Why come to an internet discussion board if all you're gonna say to anybody trying to actually discuss the movie is that it's just a movie????? Discussing alternate possibilities and picking out potential errors on the part of the filmmakers is partof the fun, ESPECIALLY in a stupid movie like Bill and Ted's. Lighten the *beep* up!!

"How'd ya know my name was Mac?" - Mac

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yes.. and clearly you get the fun of adding nothing to the discussion but boring "i understand what the internet is for and im better than you" crap..

so... everyone is a WINNER!!!

my reply was funny... ADMIT IT!

lol

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Bill and Ted operate on the same sort of temporal logic as Futurama and Lost(And to some extent Terminator). IE Events in time are fixed, and not even a time traveler can alter the path of the timeline. As any action they take is already part of the timeline.

So when we see Ted remind himself to wind his watch, Ted will never remember to do it. Why? Because he didn't. This really only happens once, but we see it from two different perspectives, giving us the illusion that we're seeing the same thing happen twice. The butterfly effect doesn't exist in this case, as everything will always happen exactly the way it has.

Likewise with your second example. De Nomolos is destined to do exactly what we see him do. He has always helped Bill and Ted attain the fame for which he hates them.

1) The clock in San Dimas is always running. But just like Bill had to dial one number higher to get to their history report, he could dial the number for the time when they left, and end up right where they started. So really, they're still obeying the rules from the first movie.

2) Just because Denomolos knows he didn't succeed the first time, doesn't mean he understands the nature of the Bill and Ted universe, in so far as you cannot alter the past. It's one thing to be told you can't change the past, it's another thing entirely to believe it.

Again, the laws of the Bill and Ted universe state that since the figures they took never mentioned the incidents, they simply didn't. And peoples minds tend to explain away the extraordinary. How would a person from Ancient Greece for example even have any idea what a phonebooth is? And if they did say anything, they would only be considered insane. They certainly wouldn't be believed.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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