MovieChat Forums > Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (1986) Discussion > The Transmission and Whale Capture Plan ...

The Transmission and Whale Capture Plan make no sense


Why would Admiral Kirk bother to send the message of 'we will time-travel and save the planet' to Earth at a point where the Earth is almost destroyed?

I mean, they DO plan to come back to a much earlier moment in time, or there'd be no point in trying to save the planet, when it's already destroyed (for all intents and porpoises (sic) anyway), right? I mean, they indeed DO arrive at an EARLIER point in time, which means there are two Klingon vessels with our heroes inside existing near the same spot simultaneously..

My point is, why would Kirk waste time to send this kind of useless message, when they are bound to alter the timeline in order to save the planet (and the solar system), so that the devastation never gets as far as in the unaltered timeline, so because the planet is saved before any and all of this can happen, the message is not only unnecessary, but also erased from existence/history!

Of course, in the same token, you could say that they never go back in time to get the whales, because there is no devastation because the whale-plan worked, so there will be devastation.. well, typical time-travel paradox, really.

In any case, Kirk wasted valuable time in a crisis situation by sending a message to basically dead people, that then never get the message, because Kirk (and the crew) ends up altering the timeline anyway so now they are 'alive people'. Completely useless and brainless thing to do, and thus makes no sense.

The whole 'capture the whales'-plan also makes no sense, because Spock not only can, but DOES indeed 'mind meld' with one of the whales (Grace?).

This renders the plan completely redundant and useless, because the mind-meld affords a MUCH easier alternative! Still don't get it?

Well, they can't just capture whale sounds and bring it into the future, because they don't understand what it means (though the 'songs' themselves are probably as much information as 'smoke signals' or 'jungle drums' of the olden times - the point wasn't to actually send DATA or messages through those methods, but to ALERT the 'shamans' (for the lack of a better word) to initiate a telepathic communication in meditation and such. It's more like a notification that now we can be online than actual message)..

..BUT, because of the mind-meld, Spock could tell the whales of the problem, the whales would know what to do and say, then Spock could tell them to wait for 30 minutes or keep some kind of telepathic contact or whatnot, so they would give the whales signal, so then the crew could capture the whale audio with the Klingon vessel, and once it's complete, they could jump back to the future, play the message to the probe and it would be the same result.

Right? RIGHT?

I mean, why go through ALL that hassle, when all they needed to do is to have Spock tell the whales what to say, then play that back to the probe. No need for transparent aluminium or changing history (the whole 'how do we know he didn't invent the thing' is actually really stupid as well, because they SHOULD know who invented it, so they wouldn't alter history! Even tiny change can mean Sulu will never be born or whatnot).

In any case, this is a great, classic movie, but I am saddened to notice that even my favorite movies have ridiculous nonsensical parts, if not downright plotholes about them.

I wish at least good movies would make sense, even sometimes. Sigh.


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Yeah. Time travel never makes sense, when you start thinking about it. It's just for entertainment.

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They didn't come back before they left. They came back after during the attack.

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It wouldn't be MC without a monthly inane "doesn't make sense" post..

My point is, why would Kirk waste time to send this kind of useless message


The answer is simple - if Kirk and Co. weren't successful in their time travel back to 20th century Earth, the 24th century Earth probably would have survived the probe's "attack" at some level, even if the damage was severe - remember, the probe wasn't intentionally trying to harm Earth. No one on Earth knew what the probe wanted - Kirk's message explained what was happening and his plan. If Kirk and crew were destroyed or otherwise lost in the past and failed to return, history would record that Kirk attempted and failed to go back in time to retrieve two humpback whales to answer the probe.

In the meantime, it would also provide some hope for the Earth under attack that Kirk was attempting a time jump in case Kirk arrived back at Earth many hours after he left (time travel being inexact).

so then the crew could capture the whale audio with the Klingon vessel, and once it's complete, they could jump back to the future, play the message to the probe and it would be the same result.

Right? RIGHT?


Yeah... no. Look, it's no sin to be ignorant, but it is to be arrogantly ignorant. Hopefully you can understand the explanation.

Since no one (including Spock) could understand the probe's original question other than the probe itself and any humpback whales, what was Spock going to tell the whales to say that they could record? And even if Spock guessed correctly what the probe was asking and got the whales to record the correct answer that would satisfy the probe, what if the probe had a follow up question? Do you think the probe traveled all the way back to Earth to say "wassup my whales!"? - wait for a "nothing much" from the whales and then leave satisfied?



Sheesh.

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Why even bother replying?

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Good point. Call it a character flaw I have.

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It would have been an even more comical movie if Kirk and his crew kept going back and forth in time to deliver messages one-by-one until the probe was satisfied that the conversation was concluded.

I think the whole reason Kirk sends the message is because he and his crew need to be exonerated of their piracy charges and this was their only shot at redemption. If they went back in time, got the whales, and then took them to the future, who would have known if they hadn't warmed them up with the message beforehand. Similarly, if they merely went back in time to 1986, got two whales, and then repopulated the species in 2100 or something BEFORE coming back to their own time, they would have saved the earth from all kinds of death and destruction but would not have saved their own skins as the probe would have not caused the ruckus in the first place. They would have saved more lives but ended up in jail (except for Spock I guess), so Kirk made a self-serving utilitarian decision in when to time travel, how many lives to save, and when to send his message.

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It would have been an even more comical movie if Kirk and his crew kept going back and forth in time to deliver messages one-by-one until the probe was satisfied that the conversation was concluded.


LOL, too funny (and correct).

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Generally, I ignore your drivel. However, this one is pretty simple. Its hard to understand, I know, but all the crew (yes, just the seven of them) are not actively piloting the ship. It is quite easy for one person to send a message while others are "making the ship go." No time is wasted, and that is a standard thing for someone to do.

As for the probe and the whales. Let me see if I understand your argument. A giant ship is transmitting a message that no one understands. It can be recognized as whale song, but they do not know what the probe is saying.

So, go back to the whales and tell them the probe is transmitting something, but we don't know what it is. Could you record a message back replying to a message we don't know the meaning of?

I suppose the whales could have recorded, "Hi there. We're all extinct now, but everything's fine. Please go away." Yeah, I don't think that would go over too well.

As usual, you're "doesn't make sense" post makes no sense.

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Avortac4 is either (A) a troll trying to waste everyone's time with such idiotic comments, or (B) the stupidest person on these message boards. Look at his posts. He doesn't think anything in any film makes sense. Don't feed the troll. Don't comment after my comment.

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