MovieChat Forums > The Falcon and the Snowman (1985) Discussion > You've Got To Read This For Yourself!!

You've Got To Read This For Yourself!!

posted 18 years ago by klutzinpink
39 replies | jump to latest

Please, please, please - go to www.cia.com.au/vic/cia.60min.txt I found this link after reading some of the threads that have been posted regarding this movie.

I cannot tell you the disgust I felt as I read the interview with Christopher Boyce. I didn't notice the date of the interview, I'm hoping he was still very young.

In my opinion, Boyce does not deserve to live in the USA. He claims his treasonous act came about due to sympathy towards Australia caused by CIA offenses. And this is why he chose to sell information to RUSSIA!!

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the connection. I might have some understanding had he gone to the AUSTRALIAN government regarding the information he had obtained, even with them as our ally. But Russia? That makes no sense to me. Our government is betraying their ally, so I'll betray my own government to it's enemy? Are they sure his IQ is 140, cause that man ain't got no sense - excuse my slang!

Better yet, I believe he used his 140 IQ level to effectively think of a way to have some "high adventure", his words, not mine. As I continued to read the interview, which mentioned his escape and subsequent bank robberies, I have to admit, I started to regret that traitor's are no longer shot.

I'm appalled by you Mr. Boyce - enjoying the liberties of the very nation you endangered. Shame on you. And shame on any who would ever call you a martyr or a hero.

[–] artdecokc 18 years ago

I couldn't have said it better.At least some of us still love our country.

"And shame on any who would ever call you a martyr or a hero." These lefties make every effort to call disgusting behavior heroism.

[–] JohninVegas 18 years ago

The movie makes Boyce to kind. The real Boyce should have been shot or hung for his actions.

[–] director_80 18 years ago

I haven't gone to the site you posted just yet, but I loved your review. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who still has feelings of love and support for America, at least an America that once was. I dread to imagine what I'm about to read on this site, but I've always wondered what ever happened to those two, and figured they weren't lost or misunderstood, but traitors with mental disorders. Thanks again for that great review.

[–] bhabuk_apu 18 years ago

Yes..absolutely right u r. But sometimes do u wonder what the world has come to?!!? Who are the good guys, and who are the bad? Is the distinction possible anymore? The borderline is fading fast. Films like these question this situation.Got to appreciate it for that.CIA, KGB protected their countries, but at what costs? The lives and happiness of the "Other" country? Makes you wonder.

[–] bookfinders 18 years ago

There's Treason in high places, today, yesterday and tomorrow. The Falcoln, just "did it my way".. and was punished for it. He and all major spy cases are side issues to the main issue... UnAmerican activities in our government for profit. For example, why is military technology sold to China? Why are bases being abandoned on our soil and built in Saudi Arabia? Or, why are nuclear technologies sold to places like Iran and North Korea, and then WE THE PEOPLE are told by those self same people, "better be scared of those nations, they have Nuclear technologies"? -- eh? Oh no, don't think of that. Go back to sleep. Nothing to see here folks. Time to watch American Idol (isn't that what the papers tell you?)

I'm not saying he was right to do what he did, but bigger crimes than that happen every day, for all of us to see, in plane site, but we don't make a peep. And people like him are used by the power elite to take our minds off their activities.. a sideshow... another lone nutter.

See. the game is big and all inclusive. Nothing is outside the power elite's control. I believe that the Soviet Union, turned Falcoln in.-- told the U/s that there was a rouge spy in their midst, giving them such and such secrets.. That's how the game is played. They win,, you don't.

[–] michael-stn77 18 years ago

agreed. i think every one is sour because youre still holding on to false cold war dichotomy thats been stuck in your head for years and years. do you know when McCarthy gave his famous speech that said something like "I have in my hand here a list .. of americans who are really communists subverting our country ... blah blah" well it came out eventually not too long ago that he was actually holding a blank piece of paper in his hand! there weren't any names!

so you feared communists for the last 50 years or so. now you fear terrorists. another 50 years there will be some other 'ists' for everyone to fear. remember that the only thing to fear is fear itself. just recognize that we are for the most part pawns in a game that we have only a very marginal understanding of, but the nature of which is that those who make the rules are free to break them.

[–] MrPie7 17 years ago

I am so tired of liberals and Hollywood morons (2 clubs with a lot of dual membership) crying about The Black List. Who DIED? What freedoms were destroyed? The only long-term evil to come out of this, is the endless whining about McCarthy and Cohn. A few writers (the Hollywood 10) had to work under a false name for a few years. Is this the WORST thing to ever happen? Our democratic system WORKED. McCarthy was slapped down and disgraced. Why the pious moaning 50 years later? If you don't know how America's atomic secrets were stolen by spies and given to the USSR to hold nuclear annilation over our heads, and if you don't know about the British civil servant spy Kim Philby who gave military info to the Chinese communists and help them kill GIs an Tommys during the Korean War, and if you don't understand the very REAL threat communism was to the western democracies in the 20th century, pick up a few books and start to READ! If you didn't live thru the Cold War, at LEAST understand it before you make your sanctimonious, smug, judgements.

[–] michael-stn77 17 years ago

Sir, why do you say it was REAL? how did you experience it? Through newspapers, tv talking heads, and books? Oh .. well then i guess it was real.

I doubt it was any more real than the threat of 'terrorism' today. Statistically I am more likely to be struck by lightning than die at the hands of a terrorist. You can actually look that one up, I'm not making it up. If I am not mistaken I am also more likely to choke to death on a peanut.

[–] MrPie7 17 years ago

It was real enough that we had to do air raid drills at school, under our desks or sometimes we went into the hallway and lay on the floor in the fetal position with our hands behind our necks. I remember how scared all the adults appeared to be during the missle crisis of Oct. '62. Yeah, it was real. And it could have happened. AND it NEARLY did. The fear brought about by 9/11 was no where near as palpable as Oct. '62. It could have meant the end of everyone and everything.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] MrPie7 15 years ago

Another "tolerant" liberal, using restraint, moderation, and good manners. Yes I defend a representational republic. What would you prefer....anarchy, or one of those delightful nations that espouses one of the various "isms" that totalitarian regimes love so much, and use to oppress and murder their citizens? Good luck on your anti-social personality which causes you to lable anyone who holds an opinion different from your own as an idiot. If, God forbid, YOU were ever the supreme mucky-muck of a nation, or even a book club, you'd shut up "idiots" like me in a HURRY!!! I think I saw you at a protest rally. You were the one holding the "TOLERANCE-OR I'LL KILL YOU!" sign.

[–] michael-stn77 14 years ago

still love governments? marcstevens.net/articles/58-still-love-governments.html

[–] Rocketer 18 years ago

What gets me about guys like Boyce and Lee is that they start from a premise that is true: America is flawed and it has done wrong many times and in many places.

But then they leap from that truth to the absurd idea that the way to oppose those wrongs is TO SELL OUT AMERICA TO THE MOST VICIOUS CRIMINAL EMPIRE IN THE HISTORY OR THE WORLD!

It's like trying to get rid of a corrupt police department by helping the Mafia kill cops and rob and terrorize the populace.

Nihilist morons.

If your favorite movie was made during your lifetime you haven't seen enough movies.

[–] bogwart-1 17 years ago

@ Rocketer

You're way, way wrong. The most vicious criminal empire in the history OF the world, or at least the last couple of hundred years of it, is the United States.

Thank goodness it won't last much longer.

[–] djstreader 17 years ago

As an Australian born after the sacking of Whitlam, the only way I ever heard the story of the CIA's involvement is through the name Christopher John Boyce. All forms of government and media in Australia have totally whitewashed this issue. Is it true? I always thought it was just a conspiracy theory, but the more I read, the more it seems that America was involved in the corruption and destruction of democracy in Australia.

[–] MrPie7 17 years ago

And here I am sitting in total ignorance of the fact that democracy was destroyed in Australia.

[–] estcst-3 17 years ago

Yeah, let's forget Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot....

Get a life. It's fantastic how people in the US are crying that their living in a facist state because they might get wiretapped if there is some odd hint that they may be a terrorist and yet monks are getting shot in the back in China and the US is the worst nation on the face of the planet?

Or maybe you'd like to be given 40 lashes as punishment for being a rape victim in a Muslim nation?

get real.

[–] anna_goddess71 18 years ago

I tried your link but it didn't work..I'd like to read that interview. As an Australian I have always felt he deserved more recognition for what he did for an ally.

[–] wilhar 17 years ago

"As an Australian I have always felt he deserved more recognition for what he did for an ally."

Now that's something to chew on folks!

[–] MrPie7 17 years ago

And exactly WHAT did Mr Boyce do for Australia? Oh, that's right, he and Lee collected $77,000 from the KGB. What was your share?

[–] djstreader 16 years ago

It ended with Australia's most awesome Prime Minister getting fired. He was the one who pulled Australian troops out of the Viet-Nam war, created universal healthcare (Medicare), established formal diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China way before the US did, abolished the death penalty and ended the the White Australia Policy, which stopped non-whites entering Australia.

Not to be confused with Harold Holt, a prime minister who went for a swim one day and never came back! We name swimming pools after him as a sign of respect.

I just thought Whitlam got a raw deal out of the whole situation. Sorry for those who thought I was saying I'd rather be killed by Muslim Communist 9/11 perpetrators. um, cause I wasn't???

[–] djstreader 16 years ago

Put it this way: Just say you really like Obama. And he wins. And he actually starts making real positive change in America. And then some other country wants to set up military bases on the US mainland. And Obama says no. And the American people are happy with his decision.

And then the next thing you know, halfway through his term, he gets removed from power and McCain and the republicans become care takers of the govermnent until the next election.

Q. Would you call that democratic?

A. No.

That's all I'm saying.

[–] djstreader 16 years ago

from Wikipedia, so I don't know how valid it is:

"Christopher Boyce said that the US government considered that "Mr. Whitlam's Government was a threat" because of Whitlam's interest in US security operations on Australian territory. Boyce also claimed that Sir John Kerr was an agent for the CIA. While working at the message-routing center of TRW, Boyce read a message sent to the CIA implicating the U.S. government with interfering with the Australian elections."

[–] MrPie7 16 years ago

It IS democratic if he was removed DEMOCRATICALLY. As far as I know no American troops backed a Coup!

[–] eYeDEF 15 years ago

Not true sir. What you appear to be confused about is the 'appearance' of being removed democratically.

You could claim that the overthrow of Iran's democratically elected Mossadeq government and implementation of the Shaw as absolute ruler was carried out by a popular uprising of the people of Iran in 1953. Superficially, it might appear this could be the case. But when the CIA has been running a covert 'regime change' operation influencing the people through foreign funded NGO's by funneling cash, weapons, and logistical support to those that would act in Mossadeq's overthrow including a TV blackout while in execution and disinformation and propaganda broadcast immediately after to rally the masses around the new regime implemented by undemocratic means, including hatching the plan and strategy of how best for that outcome to happen.

No sane person can claim that regime change was done at the behest of the Iranian people.

Some fellows get credit for being conservative when they are only stupid.
- Kin Hubbard

[–] MrPie7 15 years ago

"You could claim that the overthrow of Iran's democratically elected Mossadeq government and implementation of the Shaw as absolute ruler was carried out by a popular uprising of the people of Iran in 1953."

I am not "confused". The OP did not give any details as to HOW or WHY Obama was removed in his hypothetical situation. If it was done for constitutional reasons and he was removed in a constitutionally approved manner, and the constitution was followed in replacing him, then it IS democratic. The hypothetical has nothing to do with Iran, the CIA, or the SHAH.

BTW, a "shaw" is a thicket of woods.

[–] eYeDEF 15 years ago

Your absolutely right, I jumped the gun as the OP didn't give the details. I apologize for that.

And of course, you're also absolutely right about a "shaw" being a thicket of woods. ;( I type as I hear the words in my head which induces me into embarrassing mistakes like that. Shah indeed. :)

Some fellows get credit for being conservative when they are only stupid.
- Kin Hubbard

[–] djstreader-487-557938 8 years ago

Propaganda, media lies and fake news get people elected. It's a fact, Jack.

[–] krisluvkev 17 years ago

No matter how much you may hate your government you don't turn it and it's secrets over to a foreign government. THey compromised every American life when they did that and they should have hung. And for Sean Penn to have hired Daulton once he got out of jail is beyond contempt.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] djstreader 16 years ago

Im still stuck on this line: "Boyce read a message sent to the CIA implicating the U.S. government with interfering with the Australian elections."

Anyone know if this information was released to the public during his trial? Court records, freedom of information, etc?

For the record, I feel Rupert Murdoch has more control over the australian population than the CIA could ever be bothered with :)

[–] ascaav 16 years ago

I think this guy is full of crap. He had all the years in the slammer to think of the million different ways he could justify what he did. The only reason he hasn't mentioned was for the MONEY! He had no idea what he was even doing. He's just a thug. Breaks out of the pen and robs banks. Just a common thug looking for the benji's. My parents paid for that puke to sit and prison. He should have died in there.

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] jefgg 9 years ago

You are absolutely right. If Christopher Boyce was so concerned about democracy in Australia he could have tried to share information with influential people in that country. Instead of becoming a whistle blower Boyce become a paid spy for the Cold War enemy of his country. Common thieves seldomly admit what they really are. Many like to perpetrate a ruse that they are really political prisoners.

Something just occurred to me. Was Boyce one of those people who subconsciously wanted to be caught and/or imprisoned? His spying partner Andrew Daulton Lee was a drug addict. I can't imagine committing serious crimes with someone like that. After a few years behind bars Boyce escaped from Lompoc federal penitentiary. He was on the run for one year and eight months until his capture in the small town of Port Angeles, Washington. I read that the authorities received a tip regarding Boyce's whereabouts from someone who has seen him with falcons. Everyone knew falconry was his hobby; hence, the nickname.

[–] djstreader-487-557938 12 years ago

Democracy is when the people of a country have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives.

When the United States government interferes with another country's elections, as they did in Australia in 1975, causing the sacking of the then Prime Minister Gough Whitlam, then that is not democracy.

QED.

[–] chas437 12 years ago

Agreed. The CIA really got out of control as the Cold War wore on. The sense of paranoia that existed in those days can hardly be imagined by today's young people. CIA renegades took advantage of this to interfere in Australia's elevtion, as well as the overthrow of the democratically elected Salvador Allende in Chile during the same time period.

By the time the Cold War ended, the CIA was dresssed down big time in the early 1990s. They were essentially muzzled and villified in the public arena. There was a sense that without the Cold War, the CIA was an outdated relic. I hate to say it, but this is probably why the 9/11 plot succeeded. Supposedly at the time of the 9/11 attacks, there were like 5 people who spoke Arabic in our entire intelligence community.