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Could Rocky beat Clubber with Mickeys type of training??

posted a year ago by fourniera65 (155)
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So Rocky loses the first fight for a few reasons... 1. He did not train seriously 2. He was worried about Mick 3. He lost his Hunger and Edge. But I always wondered if Micks training just was not enough to beat Clubber. So lets say Rocky Trains super serious and old school like Rocky 1 and Mick does not have a heart attack and is Rockys corner. Does he beat Clubber in the first fight or still lose?

I think he still would of lost. 1. Micks Style of training would of had Clubber throwing way more punches 2. Rocky would not of been able to punch as much or been as fast. Just seemed like Apollos style was the only kind that could beat Clubber.

[–] strntz (12773) a year ago

So if we take off your three points why Rocky lost the fight (those could have been the reason), we'll just move on and assume Rocky's loss is because Clubber was simply better or at least had a better plan.

Even though this isn't a true story, we can assume that any new strategy to avenge a loss would be based on exactly what what went wrong during the first fight.

Apollo didn't really know Rocky would lose to Clubber until after he did, so he had the benefit of watching the loss both live and many times on video in order to form his plan for Rocky.

Micky was an excellent trainer, and we can assume that Mickey would have also known during the fight what was going wrong, and would also revue the video in order to form a new strategy, so there's a fair shot that Mickey could have come up with a winning plan as Apollo did.

[–] fourniera65 (155) a year ago

Good point, I guess my view is. Apollo is less about strength and more about speed. And all through Rocky 3 everyone tells Rocky (Even Duke and Apollo talk in private when watching the footage of the first fight) that standing Toe to Toe with Clubber is not good as he can take so many punches and give so many back....I just think with how Micky trains he would be focused on a very balance training. With some increased strength and speed. But also less stamina and footwork. Just from home fast Rocky was moving in that second fight seemed like the approach needed since no matter how many punches Clubber got he just would not good down until he was too tired.

I could be very wrong but just seemed like Clubber was his toughest opponent due to his durability. (And yes Drago was obviously his Strongest opponent).

I put another question up, but would love to watch a fully trained Clubber take on a Fully trained Drago. Especially since Clubber had way more durability than Apollo.

[–] jacotodd47 (2387) a year ago

No, no chance of winning with Mickey's training. Why? Because he wasn't going to outslug Clubber Lang. Mickey knew this - as you recall, he practically begged Rocky to retire. Rocky wouldn't, so Mickey trained him the only way he knew how. And, just as Mickey predicted, Rocky got killed.

In steps Apollo, showing Rocky an entirely new way of fighting. It's this brand new way of fighting, with brand new training, that allows Rocky to win.

[–] fourniera65 (155) a year ago

Totally agree. Yea as they all said.. DONT STAND TOE TO TOE with Clubber. Thats kinda what Mickys training was....I think if rocky trained seriously for fight 1 with Mickys training and mickey was in his corner. I see the first 4 rounds. Rocky is just dominating. But it just does no damage to Clubber. Then Clubber starts just pounding and poudning. Rocky maybe could last all 15 and have it go to points. But Clubber wins by points.. Or Clubber KOs Rocky in 8th round.

[–] jacotodd47 (2387) a year ago

Ok assuming what you have said here. Rocky trains hard and Mickey is in his corner. Assuming that - he still loses. The only difference is the fight would have went on longer. Clubber KO-ing Rock in round 8 sounds about right. The only way he could beat this guy is he had to fight differently. This is what Apollo teaches him. I suppose the "eye of the tiger" stuff may have helped - but the big thing was he fought Clubber entirely differently in the second fight. No way he could have done that without Apollo and Tony's tutelage.

[–] fourniera65 (155) a year ago

I agree and I would maybe argue that was more Apollo. Dukes training from Rocky 4 and Balboa made him out to be a power trainer. Basically Just strong and huge punches (Kinda like clubber) where as Apollo was all about speed and technique. I think another thing that Rocky had in the second fight was no fear....He was clearly afraid of Clubber, but Adrian told him. If you lose then you lose. But at least lose giving it your all. So Apollo training and Adrian's support that it is ok if he loses gave him that push to beat Clubber. After rewatching Rocky 3 it is crazy that Clubber is the only opponent that could not be beaten by being Knocked out. He had to just get too tired.

[–] jacotodd47 (2387) a year ago

Yeah, you and I are pretty much on the same page. It ends up being Adrian that gets Rocky's head screwed on right for the fight. And yes, Duke is there, but it's really Apollo who comes up with the plan - and the right training. What happens, in the second fight, is Rocky outsmarts him (kind of like Ali did to Foreman in their fight). Clubber keeps throwing haymakers and is pretty well spent midway thru round 3. Rocky has plenty left - and then starts throwing power punches until Clubber falls.

[–] strntz (12773) a year ago

Mickey predicted the loss on four solid reasons - two of them as OP pointed out - Rocky didn't take the training seriously (over confident he would beat Clubber) and (probably related to the first) he didn't have that fire anymore - even Apollo told Rocky the exact same thing when they first visited Apollo's old gym to start training. The third reason is that he was distracted by Mickey's heart attack. The fourth Mickey predicted a loss to Clubber is that he identified Clubber as a hungry, angry, and powerful opponent.

Apollo saves the day for two reasons, he trains Rocky, but more importantly, he instills the "eye of the tiger" back into Rocky. If Mickey had survived the heart attack, Rocky would have retired.

Does that mean Mickey couldn't have successfully trained Rocky for the rematch? I think he could have, but Mickey wouldn't or couldn't get Rocky's heart back, something Apollo did.

[–] fourniera65 (155) a year ago

I would give a little credit of the heart to Adrian as well. Her telling him that he shouldn't be Afraid to lose I think gave Rocky a little motivation to basically taunt Clubber.

[–] strntz (12773) a year ago

Correct.

[–] millsey72 (10936) a year ago

And after Clubbers loss here, he became a wrestler and was trained by ThunderLips in the first Wrestlemania

[–] strntz (12773) a year ago

Clubber would have been a pretty good wrestler, but ThunderLips was still the ultimate male.

[–] TandyMan (11343) a year ago

These movies do interestingly deal with the evolving fight style of boxing. The Rocky era up into the Tyson. That's where Clubber Lang falls. No, I don't believe Mickey could have taught Rocky a damned thing about how to fight these lunatics.