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Who else was wierded out by that sex scene?

posted 19 years ago by forever_swirl
101 replies | jump to latest

When she took Hubbel home to her apartment and I realized he was just about to pass out drunk, I thought she'd just let him pass out in her bed and see him in the morning. Maybe they could have breakfast together, etc. Instead, she gets into bed with him and...OMG what the hell was she thinking?

Ok, she's known the guy for - what - five minutes? Sure, they had a couple of conversations and a dance in college, but then she didn't see him for ages. Suddenly, she's all ready to jump his bones. I just can't believe she crawled into bed with him and she let him screw her. I mean, she was all for it, but I just felt like she was slightly stalking him with that move. Nevermind the fact that he was never going to remember it all in the morning. (P.S. Am surprised that he even got it up since he was beyond smashed).

I guess I missed the bit where she didnt' like him in college to where she was ready to practically rip his clothes off. Couldn't she have at LEAST waited till he was sober to sleep with him? It just seemed uber creepy and pathetic to me - not the romantic way I'm sure it was supposed to be.

Any thoughts?

[–] mem35 19 years ago

It wasn't supposed to be romantic. It was supposed to be sad.

Katie didn't not like Hubble in college. She was fascinated by him because he stepped up for her while the others in his group mocked her. And as he revealed about himself in his paper...he was much more and much deeper than his friends...than he seemed. Despite her own strength and her need to stand up for what she believed was right - even if it wasn't the popular thing to do - there was a part of her that deeply craved love. Hubble was one man she had feelings for that showed her some attention and affection.

When she brought him home, she never expected to turn around and find him naked in her bed. I don't think she herself even realized what she was doing when she went in her room, saw him, got under the covers with him and let him have sex with her. She craved love and acceptance...and here was an opportunity to be close (very close) to someone who liked her and whom she liked. It wasn't that she was encouraging Hubble to use her...she just didn't stop him. And after he was finished she realized what had happened. She'd let him have sex with her, but it wasn't because he wanted to have sex with her...it was the alcohol in him. And she realized he didn't even know it was her. I find this scene to be one of the most touching in the movie, actually....because its so very sad. It shows the depth of aloneness that Katie has felt and the vulnerability behind her very tough exterior.

[–] tejagriz-1 18 years ago

Exactly, I agree with mem3; Katie was in love with Hubble in college she had watched him from afar and loathed his friends and his convictions yet she loved him, remember the two emotions are not too far apart. He was everything she wanted to be and wasn't, popular, beloved, gorgeous, carefree. Seeing him again after school when she had gained some stronger sense of self, was prettier, had a good career she felt more equal to him.

[–] jfitz_returns 10 years ago

Hubbell used her? She raped him. He was passed out drunk, had no control of his faculties, and she crawled in bed with him naked and didn't stop his drunken stumbling. The scene was sad because it was pathetic. She'd had a crush on the hot jock while she was the obnoxious nerd and now she had her shot, thanks to the state she'd found him in. She was pathetic, desperate and creepy and then went on to force a pity "relationship." I can't believe someone could honestly suggest he used her in that scene.

[–] jgroub 10 years ago

She raped him. He was passed out drunk, had no control of his faculties

As a guy, I can tell you he had quite a bit of control of his faculties. He didn't use her, no, that's true, I agree. But he f@cked her good, and that's being in control.

If I had had a crush on Jennifer Connelly all throughout college as this incredible inapproachable ideal, and one drunken night, she got naked, climbed into my bed, and then started humping me, well . . .

I sure would hump back. I'd hump her brains out.

I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

[–] jfitz_returns 10 years ago

If I had had a crush on Jennifer Connelly all throughout college as this incredible inapproachable ideal, and one drunken night, she got naked, climbed into my bed, and then started humping me, well . . .

Yeah, YOU missed one key, critical point in your fantasy. He was passed out and she initiated it all. He drunkenly responded, even passing out during, and didn't even remember it after. If the genders were reversed, it wouldn't even be debated. He'd be charged with rape.

You missed one key, critical point in your diatribe: that the cheerleader mounts the dork and starts humping him. And THAT changes everything.

I missed nothing, but you did in your sequence of events. For all he knew he was f^cking a gf. He had no idea what he was doing. He was inebriated and she premeditated to take advantage of that.

I think that Katie climbed into that bed with him fully intending to sleep, or more to the point, not sleep

Yes, that's premeditation and if the genders were reversed, there would be no white knighting of this predatory behavior.

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[–] jgroub 10 years ago

He drunkenly responded

See, that's the problem in your analysis. As a guy, I can tell you that you can't drunkenly respond that way. When you're THAT drunk, you can't initiate anything. But if you aren't quite as drunk as you're making him out to be, then you can initiate sex.

I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

[–] jfitz_returns 10 years ago

you can't initiate anything.

He didn't. She did.

But if you aren't quite as drunk as you're making him out to be, then you can initiate sex.

He passed out mid stroke. He was literally and legally too drunk to consent.

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[–] jgroub 10 years ago

you can't initiate anything.

He didn't. She did.

I think you're willfully misinterpreting what I'm saying, so I will be incredibly clear: you can't get an erection when you're as drunk as you think he was.

But if you aren't quite as drunk as you're making him out to be, then you can initiate sex.

He passed out mid stroke. He was literally and legally too drunk to consent.

Again, far from the point. It wasn't just that he was drunk - as you may recall, he said that he had been falling asleep all over town. He was dead tired. He was on leave. He certainly woke up when that tea kettle whistled.

I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

[–] jgroub 10 years ago

I think that Katie climbed into that bed with him fully intending to sleep, or more to the point, not sleep

Yes, that's premeditation and if the genders were reversed, there would be no white knighting of this predatory behavior.

I think you completely misunderstood what I meant here. I meant that she was so sexually excited by having Robert Redford, oops, I mean Hubbell, sleeping next to her, that there was no way she was going to fall asleep. NOT that she was going to do anything, just that you can't fall asleep in that situation. No premediation of anything. A hope, yeah, sure, of course, but no premeditation.

I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

[–] IcingOnTheCake 9 years ago

It was sad. She was throwing herself at a guy because she liked his look and he used her.

[–] MovieQuoteGal 19 years ago

I was DEFINETLEY weirded out. I was like OMG what is she doing!!! Question. Did she get pregnant by that night???? By the way I think it would have been sad and romantice if she just SAT on the bed next to him and stroked his hair with those fingernails. Getting into bed with him, naked, was just dusturbing.

I say these words as a prayer, as regret, as praise, I say: Lowenstein, Lowenstein.

[–] fee_tambo 19 years ago

it wasn't a weird scene to me at all. It was meant to be sad...I don't get these drastic reactions.

The guy was drunk and used her, and she let him use her because she clung on to the hope that she could change him and make him love her...thats all *shrugs*

[–] guely55 16 years ago

Used her?? If she let him "use her" and he is drunk. SHE was using him. She wanted him in the first and second place.

[–] MyMovieTVRomance 13 years ago

Used her?? If she let him "use her" and he is drunk. SHE was using him. She wanted him in the first and second place.

Great point! And, I am in agreeance! Hubble was drunk and half asleep. She was the sober one. So, she was the one responsible for what was done to her. Thus, he was not using her in that scene.

I am the movies I love! (^_^)

[–] guely55 13 years ago

Yep! Once in a blue moon the woman is not the victim :)

[–] jfitz_returns 10 years ago

Thank you! JFC, can you imagine if the genders were reversed? People would be (rightfully) up in arms that the guy raped her. It's amazing to me how even when the woman rapes the man, the woman is still the victim. SMH

[–] ziggystar86 11 years ago

I would think more that she used him, she was the one sober anyway. Interesting and different kind of scene byt the way.

[–] dontshootthemessengernl 11 years ago

I was not weirded out. She was in love with him. He lay on the bad unconscious, and she thought it was exiting to lie next to him naked. I mean you can say she should not do it when she does not know him. But, c'mon, reality especially sexual reality is often different than puritain people want it to be. I fully understand her.

[–] jfitz_returns 10 years ago

Puritan? Are you serious? So if that dork in school crushing on the cheerleader finds her drunk and passed out a decade later, it's fine for him to rape her because they "knew" each other and he deserves her since he really liked her, right? I don't know about your "reality" but legality isn't different.

[–] jgroub 10 years ago

So if that dork in school crushing on the cheerleader finds her drunk and passed out a decade later, it's fine for him to rape her

You missed one key, critical point in your diatribe: that the cheerleader mounts the dork and starts humping him. And THAT changes everything.

I think that Katie climbed into that bed with him fully intending to sleep, or more to the point, not sleep, next to Hubbell that night. Hubbell had other ideas, and they happened to be exactly the ideas that Katie had had running through her head for the past 8 years.

I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

[–] ck1-5 19 years ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I haven't seen this movie in a looooong time, but wasn't Hubbel in the armed forces, on leave during WW II at this point? I'm sure by this point that she's seen other guys she knew from college come home in a body bag, or not at all. I believe that there may have been a prevailing attitude of, "Hey, this may be the only oppurtunity I will ever get to be close to him". That was the reasoning behind more than one marriage in those times.

[–] TCManiacs 15 years ago

You make an important point left out so far: the historical setting of WWII that contributed to her desperate need to use this opportunity to consummate her desire for Redford's character, Hubbel. Even highly censored movies during WWII often have plots involving young women "getting married" (couldn't portray one night stands for the sake of censors) in rush to consummate relationship with a soldier they just met whom they may never see again. Origin of baby boom.

Although many soldiers probably manipulated the sympathies of patriotic young girls to sacrifice their virginity in return for possibly sacrificing their life for their country, Redford should not be accused of "using" Streisand. He was vulnerable to Streisand using him to fulfill her fantasies of having his love. His intoxication gave her the opportunity to at least get as physically close to him as possible. This scene was not meant to be romantic, it was an illustration the depth of Streisand's neurosis. It marks the beginning of her trying to make her impossible fantasy to "have" him come to life. More important its a revelation of her true subconscious desire. Her infatuation with a man who is a perfect example of the society that she so passionately protests against reveals her envy and secret desire to be accepted by a culture she could never fit into. The conquest of Redford, the quintessential blond blue eyed WASP is her victory over the society she's been rejected from.

<A HREF="http://www.tcmaniacs.blogspot.com">; @TCManiacs Blogs</A>

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] Bklyn4ever 15 years ago

TCManiacs has hit on the deeper meaning in the scene.

Hubbel represents a certain social identity for Katie. Although in the end it is hurtful to her, she has to risk who she is in order to take on who he is, albeit temporarily. It has to do with the way society has made her feel devalued. It forms the basis for a bittersweet love story, because they can never quite leave behind who they are in order to truly form a couple.

And concerning Frankie, yes, it is pretty clear from the film that she was his girl by the end of college. She was wearing his engagement ring at the dance, and they were dancing very close. He had feelings for her but she was not into him, just accepting him for the time being. He is portrayed as too geeky to be dangerous to her in the way that Hubbel is. You assume that she either broke off the engagement or was married to him briefly but the relationship ran its course because her heart was never in it. Frankie was more of a counterpart to her, but she could not love him for that very reason: her damaged self-esteem made her prefer someone who could boost her up temporarily, then confirm her worst fears about herself.

So if she had been engaged to someone then of course she was not a virgin when she encountered Hubbel again. Communists believed in free love, for Pete's sake. She certainly would have slept with a fellow to whom she was engaged, just didn't probably enjoy it very much.

And the part about her letting Hubbel go ahead although he is technically asleep, and her liking his snoring: many people have a fetish of this sort. It is called somnophilia, an attraction to a sleeping lover.

[–] ejradio 19 years ago

Yes, the scene was disturbing-a one night stand. It happens, even in that time period because of the war on Europe and Asia. The funy thing is that Hubbell later realized that Roosevelt's picture was mounted on the wall and asked her if that is her hero which states that he is trying to know her from that stand point but not the night when they had sex. The sad part of all this is that Hubbell did not even remember they had sex together as he thinks that he just slept over a couch or something. Oh, and the sad look on her face when he wanted to jet out of that aprtment ASAP. Poor girl. Forgot to mention about the phone number at work and home if he needed to contact her if he is ever in town. Then spending all her food ration just to make dinner for Hubbell, was a pity. I think she sacrifice more of herself than Hubbell did until she went to Washington to support the "Hollywood 10" or something like that. Anyway, my wife never liked this film but I did as it set the tone of the time period. Tons of films like-Love Story, Easy rider, Dr. Strangelove etc... gave us a view of the world outside Hollywood. No sugar coating here. Vietnam War changed all this as more films reflected the true ending of how life is... bittersweet.

[–] filmbuff87 19 years ago

the first couple of times i saw this movie, i never understood this scene. i always thought is was "werid". but i think mem35 is right. it shows how lonely Katie actually is, even though she appears strong.

[–] maggiepepper 19 years ago

Umm... if Robert Redford was in my bed ... I cannot say I wouldnt do the same...tee-hee!!!! LOL!!!

-Margaret

"The Whole World Will Look At Me And Be Stunned" Barbra as Fanny Brice

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] DawnZEJ3 18 years ago

I agree with you maggiepepper. :) If he was in my bed, mmmmm...Not wierd at all, Babs.

It was a sad scene and it really made you feel sorry for Katie, especially the awkward morning after. But....she had been in love with him since college or atleast infatuated with him so it wasn't wierd.

[–] maggiepepper 18 years ago

I know...lol... right?! ;)

[–] jfitz_returns 10 years ago

The sad part of all this is that Hubbell did not even remember they had sex together as he thinks that he just slept over a couch or something.

Yes, it's very sad when a person takes advantage of someone too drunk to consent. Even sadder when people defend or bizarrely suggest SHE was the victim.

[–] ijonesiii 19 years ago

Personally, I had rather mixed emotions about that scene...it made the character of Katie seem rather sad and pathetic, something I hadn't really felt about Katie up to that point in the film...it just smacked of desperation and sadness and sort of made Katie seem like a sex maniac. On the other hand, Katie, whether or not she wanted to admit it, has always had a thing for Hubbell, ever since college, she never really got over him...there was always a part of her that wanted to be with Hubbell, whether she realized it or not. Yes, the man was drunk and would not remember what happened, but to be perfectly honest...if Brad Pitt or Colin Farrell or Heath Ledger or Jamie Foxx passed out in my bed, I would probably do the same thing Katie did.

[–] octopussycat 19 years ago

Well,I agree with the other users,this scene shows Katie's desperation for love.I felt so sad with this scene because she was humiliating herself by sleeping with a guy who had no sense of what he was doing and who she was.She craves for a person to break her loneliness...

[–] ijones-9 19 years ago

She may have only known him briefly during her college years but Katie had always fantasized about Hubbell...he had always been in the back of her mind and she never forgot about him. I think Katie thought that this would be her only opportunity to have sex with Hubbell. Granted it's sleazy to get into bed with someone when they're drunk, but I think Katie felt this would be her only opportunity to fulfill a long dormant fantasy with Hubbell so she took it.

[–] mariesrogue 19 years ago

I wasnt "weirded out" by sex scene, I mean if Robert Redford was in my bed *ahem*, I was more weirded out by her reference that she ironed her hair!!! How, yes by all means they didn't have hair straighteners in those days. I think that she was in love with him in the college years, and wanted to be with him before he went off again. I am still amazed that he was able to *ahem* whilst asleep!!!

My lord I have a cunning plan - Baldrick/Blackadder

[–] higgs_boson 19 years ago

It was a really hot scene in a BDSM kinda way. She was topping a semi-conscious Naval officer, well not technically, but still it was almost like a rape. LOL!

[–] whatyoudreamof 17 years ago

They did have straighteners in those days. She said she had it ironed in Harlem. Black people have been straightening their hair for years. How do you think that black women's hair look as straight as it does in older movies and pictures?