MovieChat Forums > Mary Tyler Moore (1970) Discussion > Here is how MTM show differed from reali...

Here is how MTM show differed from reality

posted 8 years ago by catlover11
18 replies | jump to latest

Need to post my thoughts before we can't post any more.

1. Episode where Lou puts Mary on probation and she ends up quitting because she didn't want to be on probation. When Mary came to the newsroom to have lunch with Murry, a new associate producer had been hired and was at Mary's old desk. Lou walks in and speaks to Mary and then heads to his office. Then Mary breaks down about wanting to come back to work. So Lou lets her come back and sends the new person to HR on an errand.

I wonder if Mary ever thought to herself if she hadn't had lunch with Murray AND said she wanted to come back that she would not have gotten to come back. Lou apparently was fine with the new person. If I had been Mary, I don't think I would have felt the same about Lou after that. In real life, she probably wouldn't have been able to come back because there would have been a lawsuit by the new person who was hired for that job and then abruptly moved somewhere else.

2. When Mary and Murray were "co-producers" it didn't work out so Lou made the decision to let Murray be the producer and Mary would go back to assistant producer. If Murray had not folded and said he didn't want it and that Mary could have it, Mary would end up going backwards and working for Murray. In real life, if Murray hadn't changed his mind, Mary would have probably ended up quitting. Also, that should have affected Mary's opinion again of Lou....knowing he put Murray above her.

Didn't seem like Lou thought as much of Mary and Mary did of him. I couldn't have gotten over those two things

[–] countryford (5) 7 years ago

1. Mary screwed up. If I recall, she and Rhoda had been typing up obits the night before. By the time they were nearing the end, they were pretty tired and getting goofy. They made some jokes on the obits. Just so happens, one of the people with the obit jokes died. They pulled his obit just for Ted to read the comical obit. Mary messed up. Even though she was tired and joking around, it had negative actions. If Lou hadn't admired/like Mary as much as she did, he probably would have fired her, and probably rightfully so. Mary was upset that Lou put her on suspension. I think she overreacted. While being on suspension sucks, she could have been fired.
As far as the new associate producer is concerned, what did her contract say. Did it say she was hired as an associate producer or if they could move her? As someone who is just watching the show, we aren't able to see what the contract stated. If I remember correctly, Lou had Mary call HR and have them reassign the new person to another job. As long as it isn't going against her contract, not much she could do.

2. Lou was a smart guy. He knew if he would have picked Mary, Murray would have probably quit and Mary might have given in and let Murray take the spot. Or she may not have, then Murray would have quit and Lou would have been without a writer. Lou knew that if he picked Murray, Mary would have threatened to quit, which would have made Murray to decline it. He knew what he was doing and I think even Mary understood that. Its not that he was putting Murray above Mary, he just weighed the possible outcomes and decided this would have the best results.

[–] pioneergrrrl (2408) 6 years ago

she calls him Mr Grant and every other single person in that newsroom calls him Lou. I call my supervisors by their first names today

This just grates on me. I really can't get through a single episode. I tried. I love the fashion but the speaking grates on me. I'd rather hear Maude.

[–] ProductionNow (1072) 6 years ago

Thats all it takes to grate on you, and unable to get through a single episode. (YOUR supervisors are likely not the producer of the news, nor are you Mary Richards)

[–] liscarkat (18367) 2 years ago

At the jobs I had in the late '60s and early '70s, we usually addressed and referred to our bosses as "Mr. __________."

[–] liscarkat (18367) 5 years ago

It's a sitcom. Everything about it differs from reality.

[–] [email protected] (5854) 4 years ago

Another thing that differs from reality is Mary's huge wardrobe. Of course she was the star of the show and she wanted to look good. But it would've made more sense if she repeated some outfits. Besides her work clothes, she had a closet full of evening dresses and gowns that she only seemed to wear once.

They wanted Mary to dress well. To that end they shouldn't have included all the dialogue about Mary's money woes or her budget.

Then again, it's TV and many TV characters dress better than what a person in their income range could afford. The same charge was leveled at Ann Marie, TV's That Girl. She seemed to work odd jobs and temp jobs while waiting for her break as an actress. Yet she had a NY City apartment and a closet full of designer duds.

Another departure from reality, no one as inept as the tongue tied Ted Baxter would have a successful career as a newscaster.

As for calling him Mr. Grant, I think MTM wanted the chance to say her husband's name in every episode, Grant Tinker. On the Dick van Dyke Show, the unseen receptionist was named Marge, the name of van Dyke's real wife. Maybe that's where Mary got the idea.

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

Another thing that differs from reality is Mary's huge wardrobe. Of course she was the star of the show and she wanted to look good. But it would've made more sense if she repeated some outfits. Besides her work clothes, she had a closet full of evening dresses and gowns that she only seemed to wear once.

They wanted Mary to dress well. To that end they shouldn't have included all the dialogue about Mary's money woes or her budget.

Maybe she had the money woes because she spent too much on clothing? Not that she necessarily paid full price -- maybe she kept an eye open for sales and/or frequented bargain basements. Heaven knows I did!

Besides, she did repeat her outfits. I never really noticed during the network run, because of course I saw only one episode per week over a span of seven years. But we recently watched the whole series (two episodes per evening) over a three-month period, and there were numerous repetitions. (I especially noticed when she repeated outfits that I did NOT like!) There was even an episode, the one where she and Lou attempt to have a date, where she explicitly re-wears an evening gown because he mentions having liked it when she wore it at one of her parties (in a prior episode).

But I definitely agree with you that Ted was far too inept to have gotten that job in the first place, let alone kept it for seven (or more!) years.

[–] [email protected] (5854) 2 years ago

Yes, she did repeat some outfits. I noticed that after I made that post (three years ago). I didn't really notice until I bought the series. After watching several eps in a row, I realized that fact.

Funny you should mention the outfits you did NOT like. lol My mom was like that. She thought Mary had great clothes, for the most part. But there were a few things she didn't like. One in particular was the short sleeved sweater (I think it was gray)that she wore over a white blouse. My mom hated short sleeves over sleeves!

She also had a few outfits in different colors. I recall the jacket that had the arrows on the sleeves. Didn't she have that one in several colors? It was probably a favorite. I've done that myself. I find a sweater or top that I really like and I buy it in several colors.

Even though Mary repeated some outfits, my problem was more that she seemed to have a whole new wardrobe each season. The repeated outfits occurred within a season and then were never seen again.

Styles do change and most women, especially if they need a work wardrobe, update with some new pieces. But Mary seemed to have a whole new wardrobe every year or so. And Mary had SO MANY different coats. Well, she did live in a city and smart shoppers can find lots of sales.

Of course what Ted once said in jest might have been true. He told Mary that Georgette complained that Mary's wardrobe was so much larger than hers.

"I had to tell her that all your dresses are reversible."

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

I thought Mary looked best in outfits that were businesslike but feminine, somewhat dainty but not frilly. Near as I recall, the one that really made me cringe was made of extra-thick fabric and had some stripes that seemed far too bold for her "look." I probably didn't like the color combination either.

I didn't get the impression that she bought a whole new wardrobe every year (though I wasn't really keeping score), but I'd be perfectly willing to believe that she bought several new outfits every year. Goodness knows I did at her age, despite my limited budget. You can afford more clothes when you don't have a family to support and/or a house to maintain.

[–] [email protected] (5854) 2 years ago

I shouldn't complain since I liked seeing what Mary would be wearing every week!

However, I do think her entire first season wardrobe got the ax. That was for the best. Her early wardrobe was a tad on the juvenile side. Well, Mary did come from a small town and people in those places tend to dress with a lot less sophistication.

I read a novel when I was a teen-ager about a young woman who moved to New York to work at a magazine. She was given advice by some New Yorkers about her dress.
"You LOOK like a country gal in those bright colors and frilly blouses."

If she wanted to blend in they told her simplify her style, wear more black, cut out the ruffles.

Mary dressed a lot more girlish in the first season. As the show went on she developed a more sophisticated style. I still think she had way more gowns and coats than the average working woman. But hey, it's television!

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

I remember how startled I was (a few years after I reached my full adult size) when my clothing started wearing out! In the first few seasons, considering that she does have a lot of clothes, Mary may still be gradually replacing garments from college and even high school -- especially those mini-skirts and knee-high boots.

Mary definitely owns a lot more evening gowns than I've ever had! But my circle of friends don't frequent elegant restaurants or fancy night clubs, so it's hard for me to judge how many should be "enough" for her.

Another reason her clothing changed was that several of her early coats and hats had fur on them. MTM had decided to stop wearing fur, and Mary Richards apparently concurred in that decision.

[–] [email protected] (5854) 2 years ago

Funny that you should mention the fur! I was just watching the episode last night where Mary comments on it.

It's a fiffth season episode. Sherry, the "lady of the evening"(as Lou refers to her) comes to ask Mary for a favor. She needs "an upstanding citizen" to vouch for her to the judge. When they go to Sherry's apartment and she opens her closet, Sherry asks Mary if she has something to say about her four fur coats.

Mary says that she feels funny about wearing dead animals. That episode has my absolute "favorite" gown that Mary wore. It was the green gown with cut-outs that Sherry designed for her. What a dress. Ted's eyes almost fell out of his head when he saw her in that.

" Mary ,whenever I dream of you, you're dressed exactly like that."

It's amazing that Ted would ADMIT to it, especially with Georgette within earshot!

For myself, my clothes hardly ever wear out. It's a good thing that I stick to basic styles; they are what is referred to as "classic" pieces. Mostly I get rid of things because I am sick of them. For instance, I have a light reversable jacket for cool weather. It's white on one side and a light green (different material) on the other. It's nice and practical. But I've had it over twenty years and it just won't seem to wear out or get holes in it. I still wear it sometimes. But I'm so tired of it!

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

It's a fifth season episode. Sherry, the "lady of the evening" ... asks Mary if she has something to say about her four fur coats. Mary says that she feels funny about wearing dead animals.

Thanks -- I had forgotten about that bit. I'm guessing that was one time when MTM insisted on having Mary make such a point (albeit gently), even though it took something like four years to get it into an episode.

That episode has my absolute "favorite" gown that Mary wore. It was the green gown with cut-outs that Sherry designed for her.

You mean the assortment of cut-outs held together by bits of gown? Good heavens, that was utterly embarrassing! I think about all that could be said for it is that a) it demonstrated a plot point, and b) it was legal for television. (I generally liked most of Mary's actual gowns.)

As for Ted's reaction, when was he ever a good judge of what other people might think?

... my clothes hardly ever wear out. [....] Mostly I get rid of things because I am sick of them. For instance, I have a light reversable jacket....

The clothes that wear out are my favorites, of course (so if there's a way to repurpose them -- e.g., shorten the sleeves of a shirt that's got threadbare elbows -- I'll generally do that). It's not a common occurrence, but when I was a kid it *never* happened, because I always outgrew my clothes first.

Would you be interested in trading that jacket for a denim one?

[–] [email protected] (5854) 2 years ago

Yes, I've had jeans or other slacks that get threadbare after a while. I wear sweatpants when I walk my dog and sometimes I just have to "retire" them for strictly home wear and buy new ones.

Growing out of clothes was never a big problem for me. I never had a growth spurt! I think I stopped growing when I was about thirteen. From then on, pants never got too short for me. I DID however, get some hand me downs from my younger sister when she outgrew them.

The green gown that Mary wore, do you really think it was a wedding dress like Sherry said. She told Mary that the guy she sold her designs to thought "green was the wrong color for a wedding gown."

I used to think she was telling the truth. Now I think she was just joking with Mary.

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

Well, I'm kinda torn. She sounded serious, but I don't "know" her well enough to judge whether it might have been her sense of humor. Mary had told her the design was no good, and she acted all disappointed and said something like the guy who bought the design must have made a mistake, followed by the wedding-dress comment. Maybe that was all meant to make a point. Or maybe it was just supposed to make us laugh, without really "meaning" anything. I really have no idea.

There are apparently some people who would actually wear that sort of dress, though, wedding or no wedding.

[–] ejbronte (60) 6 months ago

Ages ago I read a New Yorker article about how hard it was for clothing franchises to get started in NYC as opposed to other locations. One spokesperson observed that, while, in other cities, colors were the norm, here in NYC, "it's black, black, and more black." I'm a native New Yorker (by way of Brooklyn) and I can vouch for that!

[–] [email protected] (5854) 5 months ago

My mom hated big cities, but she dressed like a New Yorker! Her wardrobe was black dresses, black pants, etc.

[–] Who (5146) 4 years ago

Exactly. It’s a fictional tv show at that. Even reality tv shows differ from reality because the cast know they have to stir up false drama in order to get ratings and advertisers.