Ye blouse-wearing, pinky-extending, fox-hunting blatherskites! - The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie (1969) Discussion

[–] mjshand 21 years ago

4-14-04
I've just seen it for the first time (although I was definitely grown up when it was released in 1969) and did not like it at all! It was unsatisfying, unsettling, perplexing.

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[–] mark_shleck-1 21 years ago

I can understand that: because appreciating this film does require a modicum of intelligence and an understanding of the time and place in which the film is set.

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[–] Artpix 18 years ago

Give it time, when I first had sushi, I hated it, Now,can't live without it. Things change.

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[–] heartsAfire 21 years ago

Certainly a lost classic.(something Mona Lisa Smile wanted to be but wasn't) Perhaps if it was shown more on TV people would be more familar with it... however, since it was just recently released on DVD people will finally get to watch it. the film that gave Maggie Smith her first and WELL DESERVED Oscar, I think is excellent. From the opening scene with Jean Brodie on her bike to school to the last scene Maggie was R-E-M-A-R-K-A-B-L-E remarkable. Only Maggie could make a character that was flawed and eccentric -extremely likable.
The only thing about the ending of the film...that I wanted more of...is that it left me wanting to know what happened to Miss Brodie and the rest of her Brodie girls.

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[–] alistairkerr 21 years ago

I agree about this excellent film - but as to the recent DVD, don't expect to hear the Rod McKuen song "Jean" over the end credits - it has been replaced by an orchestral arrangement - dunno why?
It is on the print that the BBC here in the UK screened a over a year ago - but not on the commercial VHS video - or the new DVD!

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[–] greengablesliz 20 years ago

I have read the novel of Prime. The main surprise is the future of Sandy, consididering she was Teddy Lloyd's lover. Believe it or not, she became a nun. It is a wonderful movie, certainly more satisfying than the novel. I was surprised to learn when I first saw the film 15 years ago that Maggie Smith was married to the actor who played Teddy Lloyd. I have not seen Robert Stephens in any other movie except for Cleopatra 1963. He played one of the senators loyal to Caesar. Definitely a jewel of a film. But then anything with Dame Maggie Smith is worth your time.

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[–] tlavs 20 years ago

I loved the movie too. The ending does make you want to know what happens to Jean and her students, which is one of the good qualities of the movie, I feel. Maggie Smith was great as usual. As you said, she makes anything worthehile. I remember a critic saying (on her stage performances) that she could make an audience laugh by just reading a telephone directory out loud. I have seen Stephens in Henry V, Empire of the Sun, etc. I think he kind of slowed down in the 80s. This was truly a great movie.

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[–] brisc 20 years ago

The scene in which Jean Brodie shows her new 'gals' slides from her holiday in Italy is a perfect example of how brilliantly Maggie Smith portrayed the many ugly and beautiful sides to Miss Brodie's nature: one moment she fanatically comments upon a picture of Mussolini's Fascisti and the next moment she shows a slide of the Ponte Vecchio and relates wistfully how Dante and Beatrice met there for the first time. This deeply moving moment is a complex combination of Brodie's light and dark side all on its own: it shows the depth of her passion for Teddy Lloyd but also to what extend she is willing to sacrifice her special girls for her own Romantic Idea: "A man can find love in a young girl. It reminded him of an old love, a sublime love and he was seized with such longing." Never have I seen an actress who could convey such infinite loneliness and longing, and to me this is one of the most beautiful acting moments in history. Maggie Smith is sublime; may her prime last forever!

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[–] kookiefoot 19 years ago

I have only just seen this film as i was not even born when it was first released, it is one of the best films I have ever seen, it should be more well know, Maggie Smith is briliant in this film.

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[–] jefcat 20 years ago

Stephens was also memorable in a small part in Searching for Bobby Fischer. He died young in the mid-ninties, though I do not recall the details.

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[–] LittleSwallow 19 years ago

Well, I saw the movie a week ago, and I really liked it (enough so that I bought it!) My suspicions were confirmed. The movie did kind of portray Sandy as sort of a hero, because they made her motive for "telling on" Miss Brodie a noble one. To me, Sandy is either a hero or villian because of her own motives for exposing Miss Brodie, not because of how one views Miss Brodie. In the book, Sandy's motives weren't completely unselfish.

First of all, Sandy didn't give one thought to the girl who was killed because of Miss Brodie's influences, whereas in the movie that was seemingly the main reason Sandy decided to tell Miss Mackay about Miss Brodie.

Secondly, in the book Sandy is always thinking about herself. She becomes a cloistered nun because of her fascination with Calvinism, but mostly because she was fascinated by the mind of her Catholoic, married lover Teddy Lloyd, who had an irrational love for Miss Brodie, despite her "ridiculousness," as Sandy repeatedly reminded him.

Thirdly, Sandy had impressions at a very early age that most of what Miss Brodie said was B.S., and was already planning her downfall before Joyce Emily (in the book, Mary in the movie) was even killed in Spain.

Although one can argue that Sandy's not a hero in the movie either, because she could have betrayed Miss Brodie because she was jealous that Teddy Lloyd loved Miss Brodie and not her, but I think the Miss Brodie's apartment scene and the confrontation at the end suggests that Sandy's main concern was to stop Miss B. from hurting anyone else, and not so much out of jealousy.

Obviously, the book is very much about Sandy, not so much about Miss Brodie. The movie focuses on Miss Brodie more. But I liked the movie's take as well. Sandy is a much more agreeable character in the movie than in the book, and I'd much rather have agreeable characters in stories than disagreable ones. I think the portrayal of Miss Brodie in the movie is perfectly aligned with the book version. I agree Maggie Smith did an amazing job in the role of the off-centered, slightly crazed schoolteacher. I have to say in the book you may feel sorry for Miss Brodie after reading about Sandy's cold thoughts and actions toward her. In the movie, you feel less sorry for Miss Brodie and more sympathetic to Sandy's cause. To me, that's a big difference, but I'm not complaining. Both book and movie are great in their own ways, and the movie's interpretation is one I can't argue with. I'm partial to it, actually.

Are you in God's grace?
Joan of Arc: If not, God put me there, and if so, God keep me there!

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[–] zippidog 20 years ago

Does anyone know where it can be rented?

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[–] tlavs 20 years ago

Hollywood, Netflix etc do carry it. I assume other video rentals also do. Hope you find it.

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[–] tsubakiny 19 years ago

Why, why, why did Pamela Franklin not become more famous? She was such a self-possessed little actress -- held her own opposite my beloved Maggie Smith -- and then went on to do a couple of cheesy horror flicks and sitcoms before packing it all in because being in sitcoms tainted her in the US. We've all missed out because of it. The world does not reward actual talent anymore. *sigh*

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[–] FADrury 18 years ago

10/06 -- We've just finished watching this film, and "tsubakiny"'s 11-14-05 comments about Pamela Franklin are dead on. She had almost as edgy a character to portray as the inimitable Dame Maggie, and the character develops more and more as the movie goes on. As with Miss Brodie, we weren't quite sure from one moment to the next whether we liked and sympathized with her or if we thought she was just a nasty little cat. Her performance was incredible, especially noting that she was only 18 or 19 when the film was made. We were very surprised that she didn't become a major actress in her own right -- she certainly had (and probably still has) the talent!

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[–] liberalcajun 19 years ago

One of the best films made in the 1960's. I was suprised to see that 20th Fox was the studio that made it.

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[–] dusan711 19 years ago

THE PRIME OF MISS JEAN BRODIE is one of the most important movies ever made, in my opinion. And easily the best film of 1969.

Maggie Smith is one of the few truly brilliant actors in the world.

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[–] tramky 19 years ago

I watched "Prime" for the first time ever just recently, but I remember the buzz about it during its theatrical release in the late 1960s (I actually thought it was in the mid-60s but apparently it was 1969, is that right?).

In any event, it was truly a remarkable film and a remarkable story. I thought the early part of the film to be rather theatrical and dull, including the portrayal of Miss Jean Brodie. It struck me that Jean Brodie's striking appearance and manner were just slightly over the top. But this--or my perception of it--changed with the first element of conflict. When we got into the heart of the story, things ramped up quickly and I was drawn into the story and Brodie's character.

This film must have been something of a sensation at the time of its release--and I believe it truly was. The rather frank sexual dialogue, the nudity, and very interesting exchanges--dialogue--between characters was remarkable and interesting. Does anyone know how the film compared with the play (not the book)? The theatrical basis for the film is pretty clear, both in Maggie Smith's stagey--and brilliant--performance, and in the settings and characters. But it was done very well, with a terrifically smart and incisive screenplay.

I would recommend this film to anyone who may not have seen it, as was the case with me.

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[–] bschneid76 18 years ago

The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie is my favorite movie ever. I am a huge Maggie SMith fan and when I got to see this, I nearly flipped at the end when she came charging out of the classroom screaming "assassin" to Sandy as she continues down the Hallway not turning back. I had so many chills. I even cried at the end of the film when the camera is on Sandy and we hear Brodie's voice over. Truly a remarkable film and brilliant character study. I love Celia Johnson who plays Miss. McKay, she is truly frightening, especially at the end when she smiles and says "do you?" Everyone in the cast is great! Maggie Smith won a deserving oscar (I always feel she deserves the Oscar when nominated). I wished Pamela Franklin (whom I love) was nominated or won. It's a pity her career didn't take off as it should have, after such filth as Food of the Gods and The Witchery, even if she was good in those horrendous films!

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[–] Artpix 18 years ago

You just have....

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] csu16387 18 years ago

Incredible film!! The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie was a very powerful, yet sad and unsettling film. I'm glad I finally got a chance to see it.

Where was Pamela Franklin's Oscar?! She gives an extraordinary performance, but wasn't even nominated!! Goldie Hawn won for Cactus Flower. It's a good performance, but I don't think it was Oscar worthy. Sylvia Miles was nominated for Midnight Cowboy, but she was on-screen for a very short period of time. Of the nominees of Best Supporting Actress that year, the Academy should have at least given it to Susannah York for They Shoot Horses, Don't They?

"Dry your eyes baby, it's out of character."

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[–] sirjeremy 18 years ago

Absolutely agree. Of those nominees Susannah York should have won though I must say Cathy Burns was incredible.

I'm surprised Pamela Franklin got snubbed because she did win a critics award for this so she was kind of on the radar. Perhaps 20th Century Fox didn't campaign for her and Celia Johnson, I don't know.

Good acting is not the same as good singing, is that difficult for you to understand?

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