MovieChat Forums > Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969) Discussion > Actually, it's a bomb

Actually, it's a bomb

posted 9 years ago by marfrie56
45 replies | jump to latest

Saw the movie when it came out in 1969.
I was a college freshman.
The night I saw it, I was on a date with a new girlfriend - some big things happened that night - let's just say that I was in the process of becoming an adult.
Everything clicked that night - it was magical - I had a car - I had a girl - I was in COLLEGE - and I just loved loved loved the movie.
Thought it was the greatest thing I'd ever seen on the screen.
It had entrenched itself as one of my favorite movies of all time.

I hope I've aged better than this movie.
Re-watching it for the first time in many years last night - I could not get over how awkward it actually is, how sloppy, how corny - how contrived, how dopey - how Butch and Sundance are NOT the groovy cool dudes I once thought (but they are actually robbers, murderers, and low-lifes - however much I still like Paul and Robert), how Katherine Ross's character doesn't work for me, how the montage sequences don't really work, how the music doesn't work, how pretty much EVERYTHING doesn't work.
The poor props - phony plastic looking saddles on all the horses.
Bad pacing.
No development.
This movie has no soul, stands for nothing (except putting pretty star's faces on the screen), and would best be forgotten.

I'm not saying it's a total piece of trash like some of today's pointless action hero movies - it has some entertainment value, good chemistry between the two main actors (who are, let's face it, fantastic together or apart), nice cinematography, and some good spoken lines. But a GREAT movie or even a GOOD one, it is not.

Long segments of repeated action - robbing banks, then fleeing on horseback as they are pursued by inept posses, miraculously escaping as they laugh, and then sitting in a saloon across the street from the bank they just robbed.
Keystone cops stuff.

Part comedy, part Western, part romance, part road movie, part period piece - and it works at none of them.

This was when movies started really going bad. This was not the first, but certainly a fine example of: Let's get some big stars and put them on the screen. We'll worry about what we're going to do with them at some point!

I don't say that's how it actually went, but it may have been for all the dubious content in this picture.

I had to give it 5/10.
I have to wonder now about my other unimpeachable favorites from that era:
The Graduate
The Sting
Easy Rider
Slaughterhouse Five
Midnight Cowboy
One Flew Over the Coocoo's Nest

Are they all really just turkeys?
Sorry, but Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid is a bomb.
A pleasant bomb, maybe, but a bomb nonetheless.
I don't know how it could succeed today, much less years from now, as a true classic would.

[–] snelling 9 years ago

You are wrong on so many levels. If anything, "It's da bomb!" is what you meant.

This is a classic, and since you loved it once, changing your mind now seems pretty specious. Plastic saddles? Are you totally blind?

I think you are just trying to start an argument for its own sake.

"I will not go down in history as the greatest mass-murderer since Adolf Hitler!" - Merkin Muffley

[–] marfrie56 9 years ago

Specious?
You never loved a movie when you were much younger and after many years, saw it again and didn't love it? What's specious about it? If you care to elaborate, I'm all ears.
The plastic saddles - I can't find an image to show you what I'm talking about but in a few shots in the movie the saddles looked wrong - but fine, I'm the one that's wrong on that.
As far as trying to start an argument - well gee, I thought this was a forum for discussing the relative merits or lack of them, about movies - and having seen this particular movie again after many years, thought I'd just toss off my thoughts here, as it seemed like a more appropriate venue than the other message boards I frequent, like the classical guitar forum or the access programmer's forum.
I may be dense but I don't get your "It's da bomb" reference. Again, please explain.

[–] capablecarl 9 years ago

It's not a bomb by any means (IMO), but you have pointed out many things that you didn't like, that actually have occurred to me on repeated viewings.

After many Winnie the Pooh movies, this was one of my first "big boy" movies seen in the theatre. I thought it was very exciting, and wasn't savvy enough at the age of 5 or 6 to provide a legitimate review.

I still love the card playing scene, and the showdown between Newman and "Jaws" Kiel. I love the methodical pursuit by LaForce. I love the jump off the cliff. I love the climactic scene in Bolivia.

The montages, (while containing relevant information) the silly moments, the curious choice of music, and other incongruencies, just don't hold up for me at my now advanced age.

[–] snelling 9 years ago

Actually that was Ted Cassidy as Logan in the knife fight with Butch. He might be better known to folks as "Lurch" in the TV show "Addams Family."

Not sure if the OP is from the USA, but saying "It's da bomb!" used to mean that something was very good. But it's a dated expression now.

"I will not go down in history as the greatest mass-murderer since Adolf Hitler!" - Merkin Muffley

[–] capablecarl 9 years ago

Lurch. Thank you. I feel like a numbskull for making that mistake.

[–] jeanpirise 9 years ago

That guy's an idiot, there's a lot of them on the internet...as soon as you voice your opinion, someone's not happy. I guess they're kids, anywhere from 10 to 20...or slightly more...lol.

Your analysis was fine, nothing contestable at all.
It was actually an enjoyable read. It's weird to think back at our youth, and see part of it from a different perspective.

Oh what a day. What a lovely day!

[–] thomaswilliamboner 9 years ago

I see where you are coming from and understand about liking a movie as a kid/young adult and then not liking it as much.

I disagree with you on this movie though, I don't think it's the greatest western or movie ever but it's a damn good movie.
The pacing is fine in my opinion and the movie has soul. I actually end up rooting for them in the end and hoping they escape.

I will agree with the cheesy part, it does have that and could take itself more seriously. I believe the combination of Paul Newman and Redford makes up for any bad spots though.

[–] mjhayde-95-50666 9 years ago

I understand your point and perception. Do you think that how you view this movie has changed because of how your life has changed?

[–] saud-s-g 9 years ago

It seems like the more you grow up the worse your taste gets. You should be thankful you were alive when the movies you mentioned came out because 90% of today's movies are crap.

[–] RugGuy 9 years ago

I would say the movie suffers from being the template for the genre of buddy movies. Since it was made we have seen so many variations of the theme that the template looks plain and vanilla.

Also it is dated in the sense that when you watch you know it was made in the 60's. THE STING does not have that feel. It's still fresh.

Is BCATSK dated? Without a doubt. Is it still a great movie? Without a doubt.

But like many an old girlfriend , it may be better to reminisce that revisit.

[–] RobbieCalifornia 9 years ago

I liked it fine, then and now. Not being the picky type, I wasn't bothered by the saddles or the music.

I'm gonna enjoy any movie where I can watch Paul Newman and the rest of the fine cast, in a good story.

The OP saw the same movie both times. His criticisms say more about his current state of mind than they say about the film. (I don't mean this in a nasty way.). Just my opinion.

[–] marleyrae-33950 9 years ago

Love this movie. Such cool nostalgia.

[–] rickwahoo 9 years ago

Actually, you're an idiot.

I don't know how you could succeed today, much less anytime in history.

[–] lexyladyjax 9 years ago

The film is exactly as it was when you were a collage student. You are now nearly 50 years older. A static recording has not changed when what's really different is your own point of view. You've grown and matured nearly half a century since then. Do you have children, grandchildren? Some people get more conservative as they age. Have you done so? You're not very introspective or you would have figured out this before now.

Butch and Sundance were the archetype of the antiheroes. Yes, they robbed banks but there is no record that Butch Cassidy ever killed anyone. At a time when life was cheap, that was something of note.

Have you ever been depressed? One person out of five in the USA has a mental illness. It could be.am undiagnosed illness. There's no shame in that. Maybe you were having a bad day? I just learned it was.being shown on the big screen in January. I wish I'd known. I regret I missed seeing that.

Oh, I nearly forgot to mention: I have a 55 inch HD screen LGTV. I perused my BCATSK HD DVD, but I cannot see any plastic saddles. In which scenes did you see them? All I saw were saddles made of honest leather. There were one or two highly oiled and shiny that looked brand new. A new saddle, a brand new one, sort of looks like vinyl. A freshly oiled saddle is very shiny. I noticed two new saddles hanging on racks for sale, was that it?

Great white sharks are attracted to death metal music.

[–] DightBrdf 8 years ago

Pardon my French, but you are full of s**t!

[–] ecarle (14979) 6 years ago

William Goldman's original screenplay for Butch Cassidy drew the highest price for an original to that date($400,000) and the movie seems to have been the Number One Hit of the Year (though some place Disney's The Love Bug in that slot.) So it was certainly a popular movie.

But looking back, a fair amount of it is "you had to be there."

Burt Bacharach, for instance. Not only "Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head"(which Robert Redford couldn't stand and was shocked to see become a hit), but that whole long bit in Bolivia where alternating male and female choruses sing "Ba ba ba.ba. ba...." well, that was VERY trendy in 1969 but doesn't sound quite right for a Western, now does it? (Keep in mind that Butch Cassidy director George Roy Hill made an equally "special" choice for the score of The Sting with Bob and Paul --he put ragtime music from the early 20th Century over the 1930's-set story.)

Butch and Sundance ARE bad guys, but stories about robbers were trendy then, too -- the far more brutal Bonnie and Clyde had been a hit two years before, and The Wild Bunch(similar story, much more gory presentation) was a big deal the same year as Butch. Note: in all three of these films, our anti-hero heroes well...spoilers I guess.

Though audiences loved it(more on that in a moment), a lot of critics of 1969 hated it. They felt it wasn't really a Western, and that it was too cute. Moreover, aside from the shootout with the other banditos, there's not much action until the finale and -- that long, long stretch where the Superposse keeps chasing our boys, seems pretty bereft of excitement. Boring.

[–] ecarle (14979) 6 years ago

Where Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid seemed to score biggest was with its two male stars -- a classic case of women loving them, and men wanting to BE them. And much of Butch Cassidy is a comedy -- "The Odd Couple on Horseback" as the two men bicker their way through life even as they are bonded FOR life. They bicker -- and love each other -- right to the bitter end.

The steady parade of one-liners written by William Goldman is why the script sold so high and why a large number of superstars other than Paul Newman wanted the other role(Steve McQueen, Marlon Brando, Warren Beatty) before their star egos yielded to giving the role to a new guy, Instant Star Robert Redford.

"You just keep thinking Butch, that's what you're good at."
"I got vision and the rest of the world wears bi-focals."
"Don't sugarcoat it like that, Sundance, tell her straight."
"I just eat this up with a spoon."
"You can make some money on this fight, bet on him." "I would, but who'd bet on YOU?"
"All of Bolivia can't look like this." "How do you know, people may travel hundreds of miles to come to this spot where we are right now."
"Morons. I hired morons. There is no danger of robbery going DOWN the mountain. We have no money going DOWN the mountain."
"You call that cover?" "Well, if you hadn't decided to stroll...."
"The specialty of the house, and its still moving."
"That settles it...this place gets no more of my business."
"Who are those guys?"
"I can't swim!" "Hell, the fall'll probably kill ya!"

And on and on. Some of the funniest lines ever written, and you can use them. "Don't sugarcoat it, tell it straight" and "I just eat this up with a spoon" are two of mine.

[–] MIchiganJFrogg (-35) 6 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ecarle (14979) 6 years ago

They are very funny lines, to be sure. Thanks for reading.

Hey, here's a little trivia:

Even as McQueen, Brando, and Beatty dropped out of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Paul Newman was always attached -- when the others wanted higher billing than him, he'd say "Sorry, I was here first."

But Newman always figured that he would be playing...The Sundance Kid!

Only when Robert Redford was signed did director George Roy Hill say -- when Newman said "Now as Sundance, I want to--" "No, Paul, you are Butch , not Sundance."

Newman was upset, but read the script again, determined that Butch was a good enough part and might fit him, and he switched. Whereupon the title of the film was switched from "The Sundance Kid and Butch Cassidy" to "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid," to favor Newman first.

And this: screenwriter William Goldman originally envisioned Paul Newman as the Sundance Kid, too -- and Jack Lemmon(hot off of the Odd Couple) as Butch!