MovieChat Forums > To Kill a Mockingbird (1963) Discussion > Conservative solutions for the impotent ...

Conservative solutions for the impotent Peck caracter


Boo Hardley saves the day by shoving a knife into the predator. Boo with the intelligence of the average republican eliminates the problem, ( simple problem, simple solution, no matter how gruesome). Then the other conservative, the Yorick like sheriff prevents the impotent fumbling Atticus from wrecking Boo's simple existence by proceding with typical liberal legal malarky which would have destroyed hero Boo. Liberals love Atticus and this movie, (and so do I, and the movie) but only conservatives save the day. I never thought of this before, any comments? Don't forget, Atticus could not protect his children, Boo could.

reply

[deleted]

Boo Hardley saves the day by shoving a knife into the predator. Boo with the intelligence of the average republican eliminates the problem, ( simple problem, simple solution, no matter how gruesome). Then the other conservative, the Yorick like sheriff prevents the impotent fumbling Atticus from wrecking Boo's simple existence by proceding with typical liberal legal malarky which would have destroyed hero Boo. Liberals love Atticus and this movie, (and so do I, and the movie) but only conservatives save the day. I never thought of this before, any comments? Don't forget, Atticus could not protect his children, Boo could.


I think that you could stand to not view everything through the lens of a false political binary.

reply

I've got some really bad news for the OP......when this film was made, the terms "liberal" and "conservative" didn't have anywhere near the connotations that they do in 2013. Today, the Republican party wouldn't have anything to do with Richard Nixon, due to his "liberal" views on certain issues.

reply

... Even as the Democrat Party wouldn't have anything to do with JFK, due to his "conservative" views on certain issues.

reply

... Even as the Democrat Party wouldn't have anything to do with JFK, due to his "conservative" views on certain issues.


... that's a conservative myth, really. It's founded on two issues: foreign policy and tax policy. Kennedy, like any mainstream American politician of the era, could be bellicose about waging the Cold War, but he also displayed admirable restraint during the Cuban Missile Crisis, came to emphasize diplomacy and nuclear limitations, and seemed like he was looking for a way out of Vietnam at the end of his life. In terms of tax policy, meanwhile, Kennedy's tax cut came at a time when the top marginal income tax rate was 91 percent. Comparing that situation to today's is a little like comparing apples and oranges, and Kennedy was seeking to stimulate consumer demand like a classic Keynesian, as opposed to stimulating production in the supply-side manner.

And of course, it was Lyndon Johnson who pushed through Kennedy's tax cut in 1964. By that logic, LBJ constituted a fiscal conservative, too.

The bottom line, though, is that the parties proved more heterogeneous in those days.

reply

Myth or not, I repeat -- the Democrat Party of today wouldn't have anything to do with JFK due to his conservative views on certain issues.

Conservatives emphasize diplomacy, too, but they are not handcuffed by it. Was it diplomacy that ended the Cuban Missile Crises? Yes, but it was gunboat diplomacy and capitulation re weapons sites in Turkey (which the Soviets, in their own words, cared a great deal more about than Cuba). It's just that Democrat diplomacy, then, was "bad" diplomacy that led to the Cuban Missile Crises in the first place. Conservatives embrace Kennedy's words (defend freedom anywhere, Berlin speech, etc.). The Democrat Party of today wouldn't endorse such words -- under any circumstances (unless, perhaps, they were needed somewhere outside NY and Calif. at election time).

A predictable gesture on LBJ's part at the time. It was Kennedy's tax cut.

Keynes is not persona non grata in conservative circles by any means.

Btw, tax cuts stimulate both production and consumption, neither of which are of much concern to Democrat leadership today. Rule by Executive Order (the Constitution be damned), single party dictatorship, and the consequent aggrandizement of power in a central (not federal) government are the orders of the day. Nope, JFK couldn't be nominated. Perhaps I should add -- in either party.

(You say the Democrats were not a segregationist party "on a national level". That's wrong. The 1957 Civil Rights Act was a Republican initiative and opposed exclusively by the Democrat Party -- Southern and Northern members. A handful of Dems. voted for it.)


reply

Myth or not, I repeat -- the Democrat Party of today wouldn't have anything to do with JFK due to his conservative views on certain issues.

Conservatives emphasize diplomacy, too, but they are not handcuffed by it. Was it diplomacy that ended the Cuban Missile Crises? Yes, but it was gunboat diplomacy and capitulation re weapons sites in Turkey (which the Soviets, in their own words, cared a great deal more about than Cuba). It's just that Democrat diplomacy, then, was "bad" diplomacy that led to the Cuban Missile Crises in the first place. Conservatives embrace Kennedy's words (defend freedom anywhere, Berlin speech, etc.). The Democrat Party of today wouldn't endorse such words -- under any circumstances (unless, perhaps, they were needed somewhere outside NY and Calif. at election time).


Firstly, it's the "Democratic" Party. If you want to be serious and scholarly about matters, then you should use the objective and historical terms, not the partisan banter of today. I'm not going to call the Republican Party the "Repub" Party.

Secondly, many Democrats voted for the war in Iraq, and many more (including the current president) supported an expansion of the war in Afghanistan. Kennedy, conversely, may have looked askance at both initiatives. Moreover, Kennedy resisted the calls of his generals to just bomb the Cuban missile sites, which is the action that many of today's Republicans would have advocated. Many contemporary Republicans would be calling Kennedy weak for the belated removal of the missiles in Turkey, and for not bombing the missile sites or Castro's government in general (or for not staging an overt invasion of Cuba).

So, frankly, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Kennedy was far from a Dick Cheney-style "neo-con." To be fair, the "neo-cons" originated in the Democratic Party during the Vietnam War before eventually shifting over to the Republicans, but Kennedy, who may well have diminished the American presence in Vietnam after winning reelection in 1964, was not of that stripe.

You're also assuming that Kennedy would have supported a dramatic tax cut in today's context, or that today's Democrats would have been unilaterally opposed to a stimulative tax cut circa 1963-64, when federal deficits were much smaller, income inequality was much lesser, and top tax rates were far higher. Either of those assumptions, in my opinion, would be fallacious.

Moreover, one could argue that Bill Clinton proved more conservative, in certain ways, than John Kennedy.

A predictable gesture on LBJ's part at the time. It was Kennedy's tax cut.


But LBJ still embraced it, while conservatives such as Barry Goldwater and the business community opposed the tax cut. So if you're trying to say that many Democrats of that era would not recognize the party of today, the same would be true of Republicans.

By the way, Kennedy also tried to pass Medicare, which Johnson ultimately embraced as well. So are you also not going to give Johnson credit for Medicare?

Keynes is not persona non grata in conservative circles by any means.


He seems to have become persona non grata, although "supply side" economics are basically a bastardization of Keynesian economics, especially given how Republicans since Reagan have often paired them with stimulative increases in defense spending.

Btw, tax cuts stimulate both production and consumption, neither of which are of much concern to Democrat leadership today. Rule by Executive Order (the Constitution be damned), single party dictatorship, and the consequent aggrandizement of power in a central (not federal) government are the orders of the day.


I'm going to avoid addressing your puerile, demagogic, partisan statements (except to note that Obama has used executive orders less often than Reagan and the most recent Bush), and just say that Democrats indeed support middle-class tax cuts as a means of stimulating consumption. However, the stimulative impact of tax cuts is overrated for consumption and especially production, particularly when the high-end tax rates are so much lower than in Kennedy's day. The actual quantitative context needs to be considered, not just abstract theory irrespective of the numbers. Remember, Bill Clinton raised taxes on the wealthy and wealthy corporations in 1993 and the economy still kicked into overdrive.

In other words, let's potentially talk about the stimulative impact of tax cuts on production when the top rates are 91 percent, as when Kennedy took office, or 70 percent, as when Reagan took office. But when we're debating 35 percent versus 39 percent, the context is dramatically different and frankly incomparable.

Nope, JFK couldn't be nominated. Perhaps I should add -- in either party.


Kennedy constituted a moderate progressive, much like Obama. Now, that's not to say that Obama is the same caliber of leader as Kennedy, but I don't see a dramatic ideological difference. If Kennedy were around today, advocating Medicare (which Reagan and other conservatives claimed would end freedom in America), diplomacy with the Soviet Union, and federal power over states' rights on the question of civil rights, many of today's conservatives would be calling him a Marxist (just not a Muslim Marxist). Remember, too, that Kennedy took on the steel industry, the kind of endeavor that would displease many current Republicans.

(You say the Democrats were not a segregationist party "on a national level". That's wrong. The 1957 Civil Rights Act was a Republican initiative and opposed exclusively by the Democrat Party -- Southern and Northern members. A handful of Dems. voted for it.)


The Democrats controlled both chambers of Congress in 1957. Therefore, by definition, the Civil Rights Act of 1957 represented a Democratic legislative initiative, with Senate majority leader Lyndon Johnson constituting the critical figure in navigating the bill through the Senate. Although support proved greater among the Republicans (who unanimously supported the bill in the Senate), far more than just a "handful" of Democrats voted for the measure. Indeed, a majority of Democrats supported the legislation in each chamber, overcoming their ill-fitting Southern faction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1957

On the issue of the national Democratic Party in that era, I'm not sure where your understanding of history comes from; it seems to stem from right-wing media manipulators, which do not represent a sound source. The truth of the matter is that the Democrats were long split between their national orientation, which highlighted Northern/Midwestern liberals, intellectuals, and progressive populists (including 'ethnic'-immigrants and labor) who believed in using the federal government to promote equality, fairness, and justice (essentially, the party of FDR and the New Deal), and their old Southern base with roots in the Confederacy. In fact, in 1948, Strom Thurmond, then the Democratic governor of South Carolina, marched out of the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, in response to a liberal civil rights platform plank being pushed by Hubert Humphrey, then the mayor of Minneapolis and soon to become a Minnesota senator and then Johnson's vice president. Thurmond took many of his fellow southern Democrats (the "Dixiecrats") with him and formed the short-lived States' Rights Party, running as a third-party presidential candidate that year. After Harry Truman, who legally desegregated the armed forces by executive order, won reelection in 1948, Thurmond returned to the Democratic fold for the next sixteen years. Then, after President Johnson led the successful passage of the far more consequential Civil Rights Act of 1964 (that August), Thurmond—now a Democratic senator from South Carolina—jumped ship, leaving the Democrats for the Republicans, whose presidential nominee, Arizona senator Barry Goldwater, opposed the Civil Rights Act on the basis of "states' rights." In the years to come, many other Southern Democrats would following Thurmond's lead, either voting Republican (especially in presidential elections) or actually changing their registration and becoming Republicans. Mainstream Republican politicians from northern states, or from California, began taking note and adjusted accordingly. Although Richard Nixon was legally committed to civil rights, in 1972, he was politically committed to winning the old Democratic South, in other words the racist George Wallace voters from 1968. Thus he instructed his political operatives to downplay their administration's record on civil rights and instead make sure that they did not alienate the South. In 1980, Ronald Reagan (like Nixon, a California Republican) went further, actually launching his presidential campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi, site of the ghastly and infamous Ku Klux Klan murders of three civil rights activists in June 1964 (subject of the Oscar-nominated 1988 film Mississippi Burning, directed by Alan Parker and starring Gene Hackman in one of his most memorable roles). That's not to say that Reagan was racist, but one would be naive to not know what he was doing. Beginning with the Truman and Kennedy administrations and then decisively with Lyndon Johnson, the Democrats decided to place civil rights ahead of politics, the politics of retaining the South as part of their electoral coalition in order to win presidential elections. The Republicans responded by then catering to the old Southern Democrats, hence enabling the GOP to win five out of six presidential elections from 1968-1988 (the only exception being the Watergate-shadowed 1976 election). But that strategy has long since run its course.

reply

A couple follow-ups to my previous post:

Nope, JFK couldn't be nominated. Perhaps I should add -- in either party.


Kennedy could be readily nominated by today's Democrats, unless he proved to be pro-life on abortion. That's an unknown matter.

(You say the Democrats were not a segregationist party "on a national level". That's wrong. The 1957 Civil Rights Act was a Republican initiative and opposed exclusively by the Democrat Party -- Southern and Northern members. A handful of Dems. voted for it.)


By the way, what I mean by "national level" is the party's overall identity and messaging, along with its presidential nominees. Obviously, there were many Democratic federal office holders from the South who were segregationists, such as Senator Strom Thurmond. Still, African-Americans started voting Democratic en masse in 1936, given the potential that they saw in FDR's track record of federal intervention on behalf of justice and equality. If the Democrats' national message had been segregationist, then they would not have attracted African-Americans away from the Republican Party (which largely gave up the crusade for civil rights after Reconstruction ended in 1876).

reply

"... what I mean by 'national level' is the party's overall identity and messaging ..."

Well, talk is cheap and the Dems. are fantastic politicians (if not statesmen). The sycophantic press doesn't hurt them either.

Strom Thurmond? The only Democratic segregationist to change to a Republican. The rest remained Democrats.

"... federal office holders from the South (my emph.) who were segregationists"? . . . Please:

Dems. voting (and railing) against the '57 Act included -- Wayne Morse of Oregon; Warren Magnuson of Washington; James Murray of Montana; Mike Mansfield of Montana; Joseph O. Mahoney of Wyoming . . . Every segregationist in the Senate was a Democrat.

Btw, neither Nixon nor Reagan (even when he took 44 states) ever won-over segregationist voters.

As LBJ said to Democrats (on Airforce 1) after doing a 180 flip on civil rights (having gutted the '57 Act) and pushing the '64 Act (which was very similar) -- "I'll have them 'nig***s' voting Democratic for two hundred years."

Yup . . . great "identity" building and "messaging" . . . as always.

reply

Well, talk is cheap and the Dems. are fantastic politicians (if not statesmen).


And Republicans aren't?

The sycophantic press doesn't hurt them either.


Fox News? The Murdoch empire? In general, the press is pretty lazy and tends to go for shallow, sensationalist coverage that renders partisan affinity irrelevant.

Strom Thurmond? The only Democratic segregationist to change to a Republican. The rest remained Democrats.


Plenty of other white Southerners with questionable racial stances switched. They may not have been federal officeholders at the time, but the notorious Jessie Helms (for instance) began his career as a Democrat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms

Dems. voting (and railing) against the '57 Act included -- Wayne Morse of Oregon; Warren Magnuson of Washington; James Murray of Montana; Mike Mansfield of Montana; Joseph O. Mahoney of Wyoming . . . Every segregationist in the Senate was a Democrat.


Maybe so, but a majority of Democrats in both houses voted for the measure, which could not have come to the fore without Democratic leadership, given that the Democrats controlled both chambers.

Btw, neither Nixon nor Reagan (even when he took 44 states) ever won-over segregationist voters.


Of course they did. Nixon won a number of southern states (South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Florida) in 1968, and then won every single southern state in 1972. Considering that he proved unpopular among African-Americans, where do you think that his votes were coming from in the South? Reagan took the South back from Jimmy Carter in 1980 in part by making a coded appeal to segregationists, such as launching his campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi. I mean, why else would you initiate your campaign there, of all places?

In 1980, Reagan won every state in the old Confederacy except for Carter's home state of Georgia. In 1984, when Reagan actually won forty-nine states (all except for opponent Walter Mondale's home state of Minnesota), he won every single state in the old Confederacy. Obviously, Nixon (especially in 1972) and Reagan in 1980 and 1984 possessed broad appeal, but they definitely utilized a "southern strategy" to woo the old Dixiecrats. Have you heard or read the tape-recorded comments of ace Republican operative Lee Atwater in 1981?

You start out in 1954 by saying, *beep* *beep* *beep* By 1968 you can’t say *beep* hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than *beep* *beep*

http://www.thenation.com/article/170841/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamou s-1981-interview-southern-strategy#


Actually, do you know which states Barry Goldwater won in 1964? Aside from his home state of Arizona and the newly unionized Alaska, he won the five-most Deep South states: South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisana. None of those states had gone Republican since Reconstruction, not even during the 1950s when Eisenhower was dominating the rest of the map. So why did they suddenly swing from the Democratic column to the Republicans? The reason was because Lyndon Johnson inked the 1964 Civil Rights Act which mandated desegregation, while Goldwater opposed the legislation. Ever since, those states Deep South have almost always voted Republican.

As LBJ said to Democrats (on Airforce 1) after doing a 180 flip on civil rights (having gutted the '57 Act) and pushing the '64 Act (which was very similar) -- "I'll have them 'nig***s' voting Democratic for two hundred years."


And Johnson also stated that he'd just lost the South for the Democratic Party for the next generation. In a sense, he was wrong: Johnson gave away the South for multiple generations. Why do you suppose that the Democrats dragged their feet on desegregation for years prior to 1963, even though their liberal base wanted it? They knew that desegregation would cost them the South and their presidential supremacy. Sure enough, Republicans won five of six presidential elections from 1968-1988 because the Democrats became the liberal champion of civil rights, while the Republicans catered to the Dixiecrat segregationists who had become alienated by the Democratic Party's national policy of desegregation.

If you mean that Johnson gutted the 1957 Civil Rights Act as Senate majority leader, he did so in order to pass it, or else nothing would have been able to pass. Besides, the 1960 Civil Rights Act improved upon the 1957 law. Moreover, the 1964 Civil Rights Act went much further and proved far more interventionist than the 1957 law (at least in the law's final form). As it ultimately emerged, the 1957 act was primarily symbolic: important, but something of a token and not the 'game changer' that segregationists had feared. Thus the South remained in the Democratic column in 1960. The 1964 Civil Rights Act, conversely, rendered Jim Crow and other forms of discrimination illegal, essentially upending the South's caste system and race-based social order. The Democratic president pushed and signed the legislation (passed by a Congress where Democrats controlled both chambers, albeit with Republican support), whereas the Republican presidential nominee (a senator) opposed it. The rest, as they say, is history.

reply

You're to be congratulated. You've done your homework and taken a lot of time with an intelligent and veeeery long reply. Rare on these boards. It would take much too much time to reply to you on a point by point basis -- too much digging, and it simply isn't required. My point remains as I've stated it. I need comment only on a couple prerogatives of yours (and the Democrats):

First, I asked you a rhetorical question in an earlier post, which you have inadvertantly answered repeatedly and throughout this last post, as have those whose comments you quoted (Atwater and Holtin), each in his own way. The question was -- do you think all Southern whites are/were segregationists? In reading your post, your answer, it seems to me, is "yes" (an oft-heard, slickly disguised, and politically useful leftist answer/position). Atwater spoke as a political consultant. He had to think about the segregationist vote (however large or small it may have been), as well as the others, and he, naturally, saw things through a consultant's peculiar glass -- and darkly. Holtin was/is not a conservative. My God, he supported Obama! He's a liberal! So he, too, sees things the way you, apparently, the Democrat Party, and leftists in general see them. Holtin saw conservative economic priorities as cover for all that racial hatred and segregationist sympathy conservatives secretly embrace. His Republican label is meaningless in the context of what you and I have been discussing. Naturally, I see the Republican Party as a practical tool (however flawed) of the conservative movement.

The economic issues (the same economic issues the conservative movement within and outside the Republican Party espouses today are entirely separate, and merely tangential in effect, to the segregation/civil rights issue. Leftists, including RINO Republicans, will never acknowledge this, because it would hobble the image-making priorities of their political agenda -- everywhere and for years to come (LBJ's 200 year goal?). Btw, in answer to your first question, I'll say "yes", the Republicans aren't "fantastic politicians", They're bad at it frankly, though they occasionally do make "statesmen" (R.R., for example).

Btw, how do you define - "questionable racial stances"? . . . Do I qualify?

Yes, Republicans took the South, as you correctly point out. But -- they did not take the segregationists (my initial point!). The Republicans lost them in the West, too. Unless, to repeat my question, you believe every (or most) "white Southerners" (other than liberal Democrats) were/are segregationists.

Second, the '57 Civil Rights Act was Eisenhower's and the Republican Party's initiative, universally opposed by the Democrat Party, including Northern Democratic leadership, then and after -- out-spoken liberals all: The decades-long "Big Lie", as it's termed by many conservatives. Me too. (Whew! Hope you don't see a "questionable racial stance" in that comment.)

Sorry this post is so short compared to yours, but I think most of what your post contains is irrelevent to my original assertions. So, I'll betray my natural laziness and return my thoughts to the original intent of this site -- TKAM's value, which is considerable, as a cinematic experience. Thanks, and . . .

Best, as always

P.S. -- Poor ol' Fox News. Got all that influence against the Obama PR firm of the federal government, the White House Press Corps., CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, NPR, MSNBC, CNBC, the New York Times, the LA Times, Hollywood, all those other big city papers ... and they don't even know it! (Maybe I'll just send 'em a note.)

reply

P.S. -- Poor ol' Fox News. Got all that influence against the Obama PR firm of the federal government, the White House Press Corps., CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, NPR, MSNBC, CNBC, the New York Times, the LA Times, Hollywood, all those other big city papers ... and they don't even know it! (Maybe I'll just send 'em a note.)


cwente translation: "I hate reality having a liberal bias."

"This year I'm voting Republican. The Democrats left a bad taste in my mouth."
-Monica Lewinsky

reply

By the way, I strongly recommend reading this 2002 New York Times editorial by Linwood Holton, Virginia's Republican governor from 1970-1974. He wonderfully synthesizes the point that I've been making, while more politely expressing what Lee Atwater was willing to say behind the scenes.

An End to the Southern Strategy?

By Linwood Holton

Published: December 23, 2002


Trent Lott's demise as leader of the Senate Republicans is more than the story of one man being undone by a failure to understand race in America. It is also a chance for the Republican Party to decide whether it really wants to end American racial inequality or if it wants to continue its strategy of exploiting the issue for partisan gain.

Thirty-five years ago, a debate raged within the party. Should Republicans take advantage of Southern Democrat resentment over the civil rights movement by luring white Southern racists into the fold? Or should it seek to build the party by doing just the opposite: opening its arms to African-American voters?

Since the 1950's I had been working to build a Republican base in Virginia, where the strong Democratic machine, led by the ultra-segregationist Harry Byrd Sr., held a stranglehold. By the mid-1960's, the Virginia Republican Party -- with broad support of African-Americans -- was positioned to score major political victories.

I was part of a group of moderates from around the country who were urging the party to welcome black voters by supporting equal voting rights and equal employment measures. We felt that a coalition of moderates, blacks and pro-business voters would be unstoppable -- even in the Democrats' old stronghold, the South, where blacks made up as much as 20 percent of the electorate in some states.

Unfortunately a more cynical vision prevailed among the party's national leaders. With Nixon strategists leading the charge, these few (but prominent) Republicans opted for the so-called Southern strategy to lure white racists into a coalition with the party's traditional business constituency. The tactic was simple: lace your speeches with coded appeals to racists in Southern states, dressing the policies up in the language of fiscal conservatism.

When challenged about the racial nature of the rhetoric, the Southern Strategist would defend himself by claiming ignorance: ''I didn't mean that, of course.'' The intended target of the message -- the racist voter -- understood completely, while leaving the politician ''plausible deniability'' with non-racist voters.

And so for decades, this approach has lingered. The controversy over the Martin Luther King holiday is a perfect example. Republicans (and some Democrats) playing the Southern strategy cast the debate as a question of the economic impact of giving government workers a day off, ignoring the appeal of honoring an American hero.

The Confederate flag debate is another example. The Southern Strategist casts the debate as a matter of state pride, claiming that the Civil War was about ''states' rights'' not slavery -- an absurd assertion that neglects the fact that the only state right truly at issue was the right to enslave Africans.

With the South today strongly Republican, it has become conventional wisdom that the Southern strategy was a tremendous, if shameful, success. But this ignores the historic gains we made in Virginia by soundly rejecting the Southern strategy. Working with a band of allies throughout the state, I gradually put together a progressive coalition of business, labor and African-Americans. In 1965 I ran for governor and won an impressive, though losing, vote total. (Convinced that I would never win that year, many major black political organizations endorsed my opponent.)

But the next election was different: having seen that I was a real competitor, blacks in 1969 voted for me in substantial numbers (although the polls were a bit sketchy then, I probably received nearly 40 percent of the African-American vote) and I was elected the first Republican governor of Virginia since Reconstruction.

This was lost, however, on the national Republican Party, which was willing to accept the membership of Southern white supremacists as the price to pay for a hoped-for Republican Senate majority.

As the Southern strategy unfolded in the Nixon era some of us argued that it was not only morally bankrupt but short-sighted: racism's ugliness might linger for many years, but racism was without a doubt dissolving in our pluralist society. The strategy might work for a while, we said, but in the long run it would drive black voters from our party, possibly for good, and it offered no replacements for the white racist voters as they gradually died off.

And now, Trent Lott's epic fall is a sign that the long run is upon us. That he was done in by the sort of comment he and other Southern Republicans have been able to get away with for decades -- using that old ''I didn't really mean it'' line when they got caught -- shows that the Southern strategy it now as ineffective as it is immoral.

Republicans must now decide where we should take our party. We can go with President Bush, who reminded us that ''every day our nation was segregated was a day that America was unfaithful to our founding ideals.'' Or we can hang on to the divisive politics of racism and sink gradually, but inevitably, into oblivion.


http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/23/opinion/an-end-to-the-southern-strat egy.html

reply

Like the closing Bush quote. Too bad so many leftists view the man as having "questionable racial stances". But, of course, Bush invokes a universal truth which should apply to both Parties. Sadly, it's the Democrat Party, and leftists in general, who see their political futures as being tied to maintaining the "divisive politics of racism". And so, we are "sinking gradually, but inevitably, into oblivion." If you can't see this -- well, so much the worse for all of us.

Best

reply

I don't think you even read that passage or understood the point of it. It was critiquing the Republicans' "Southern Strategy" and its shameless appeal to white Southern conservatives. Your response however, was "Democrats are really racist." If you weren't so partisan and ignorant, you'd understand this.

"This year I'm voting Republican. The Democrats left a bad taste in my mouth."
-Monica Lewinsky

reply

Atticus is progressive. Liberal and conservative in today's world do not translate.

reply

Yes, but remember, Democrats (20th century "Liberals") attached themselves to the word "progressive", then as now (the "Progressive Movement" from Wilson's time). So, its use as a political identifier is different than its use as a generic word meaning to make progress from one thing to another presumably better thing. The Democrat Party was, for most of America's history (roughly until the end of the 60's), the party of segregation and Jim Crow, especially in the South. As a kind of maverick for his time and place, I would suppose Atticus was likely one of the town's few Republicans.

reply

Good point. Although, I would probably see Atticus as more of an Independent. I can't necessarily see him being a one-party voter, but rather someone who votes for whatever makes the most sense to him. I need to reread the book, I know that they go into detail about his family and their beliefs. To be continued...

reply

The Democrat Party was, for most of America's history (roughly until the end of the 60's), the party of segregation and Jim Crow, especially in the South. As a kind of maverick for his time and place, I would suppose Atticus was likely one of the town's few Republicans.


The Democrats were the party of segregation and Jim Crow in the South, not on a national level. On a national level, the Democrats were the ones who pushed for civil rights and voting rights, with enough support from Republicans to overcome the southern conservatives in their own party (the "Dixiecrats"). Indeed, the Democrats dominated much of twentieth-century politics on the basis of a vast coalition that proved intellectually ill-fitting: George Wallace and Hubert Humphrey, for instance, were members of the same party.

Yes, I suppose that if Atticus Finch was politically registered, he would have been more likely to be a Republican given his part of the country. But he's also the kind of Republican who may have voted for Franklin Roosevelt.

Obviously, speculation of this kind is feckless and possesses nothing to do with the movie.

reply

joekidd,

"The Democrats were the party of segregation and Jim Crow in the South, not on a national level."

Not so:

The Republican Party expressly endorsed Brown vs. Board of Education.
99 members of Congress signed the Southern Manifesto denouncing the Brown ... decision. 97 of them were Democrats.

Even after, then, Senator LBJ stripped the '57 Civil Rights Act (Eisenhower's bill) of its enforcement powers, 18 senators opposed it -- all Democrats.

As a matter of fact, the '57 Civil Rights Act was opposed by Democrats exclusively. Notable yankee opponents included Warren Magnuson - Washington; Wayne Morse - Oregon; James Murray - Montana; Mike Mansfield - Montana; and Joseph O. Mahoney - Wyoming.

The Dems. are tremendous image-makers (it only takes talk to do so, after all, and usually accomplished with the enthusiastic support of their fellow travelers, roughly 87%, in the media), and they have been, ever since the 60's, very successful in changing their image to one more conducive to appealing to the ever-growing participation of blacks at the polling place.

Best



reply

Before you engage in any further partisan whitewashing of history, you should look up the definition of the word "Dixiecrat" and how the South has voted since the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

"This year I'm voting Republican. The Democrats left a bad taste in my mouth."
-Monica Lewinsky

reply

"Dixiecrat" refers to Southern, segregationist Democrats -- always has. So . . . what's yer point?

I find it amusing that Democrats, when confronted with facts (my last post) to which they have no factual rebuttal, refer to those facts as "whitewashing".

reply

My point is that you accuse Democrats today of being racist by mentioning Brown v. the Board of Education, but ignore the Dixiecrats who jumped ship to the Republican Party after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Nixon's and Reagan's Southern Strategies. This is because you are a partisan hypocrite. And FYI, you don't really have any facts on your side.

"This year I'm voting Republican. The Democrats left a bad taste in my mouth."
-Monica Lewinsky

reply

Don't intend to get into it with you again. (It's like digging for gold where there are only turnips to be found.) I'll simply reiterate -- I have all the "facts on my side".

Adios

reply

You should have only kept the word facts in quotes. Then you would make sense.

"This year I'm voting Republican. The Democrats left a bad taste in my mouth."
-Monica Lewinsky

reply

[deleted]

I was giving you credit for the idea not the word (Aren't you proud of the idea?). Alas, it seems, my generosity of spirit goes unrewarded.

reply

Going in circles does not help your argument.

"This year I'm voting Republican. The Democrats left a bad taste in my mouth."
-Monica Lewinsky

reply

Precisely, what "argument" are you talking about?

reply

Well, you're jumping around a lot, so I'll go back to your originally laughable argument that the Democrats are and have always been a party of racism, and that the Democrats of today practice exactly the same sort of racism as their forebearers.

"This year I'm voting Republican. The Democrats left a bad taste in my mouth."
-Monica Lewinsky

reply

As Daniel Patrick Moynihan (a Dem.) once said, "You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts."

reply

Quoting a Democrat to use cognitive dissonance attacking Democrats? You're going in circles again.

"This year I'm voting Republican. The Democrats left a bad taste in my mouth."
-Monica Lewinsky

reply

Tetsuo, you astonish me. The best debating technique there is is to quote a member of the opposition team to make your point. Besides, there have been many eloquent liberals in the past with whom I've agreed on several points (Eg., Moynihan, Galbraith, JFK, Humphrey, etc.). . . You, I'm afraid, have a loooong way to go.

reply

Well, I could quote your conservative heroes admitting to being fascists, but that would be sinking down to your level.

"This year I'm voting Republican. The Democrats left a bad taste in my mouth."
-Monica Lewinsky

reply

 You could? Well, go ahead. I'm ready to bet the egg money that you can't quote one "admitting to being a fascist" (especially when you consider that fascism is a left-wing movement). "Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive."

reply

Fascism is a left-wing movement now? You really are trying too hard to deceive others!

"This year I'm voting Republican. The Democrats left a bad taste in my mouth."
-Monica Lewinsky

reply

"Now"? Not now -- always has been. Command and control (socialist) economic system, censorship, top-down moral precepts (aka "political correctness"), rule by executive order, eternally expanding central authority at the expense of individual liberty. Why, every left-wing movement endorses these.

reply

[deleted]

Conservatives only cause problems. They never solve them.

reply

I suppose in liberal circles your post would be lauded as creative, economical, insightful, and a real game changer! (You forgot, however, to call us Nazis, homophobes, racists, etc. . . Deduct 10 points!)

reply

I suppose in liberal circles your post would be lauded as creative, economical, insightful, and a real game changer!


No. Just a simple statement of fact.

(You forgot, however, to call us Nazis, homophobes, racists, etc. . . Deduct 10 points!)


Why would I need to point out the obvious?

reply

Congratulations! You've just redeemed your 10 points. . . And, add 2 for brevity and a concise narrative style!

reply

OP is a nearly complete non sequitur, a total distortion seen through a warped and clouded political lens. There's your comment.

With the intelligence of a typical Republican the OP doesn't even get the character's name right (cited as "Boo Hardley" in case it gets corrected), even though a web page to check it against is sitting right there on the screen. Sloppiness, when not outright intentional misrepresentation, about facts both historical, economic and scientific is a hallmark of the present day right.

One might bear in mind that conservatives of that era with rare exceptions were perfectly happy to chant "state's rights" and let American apartheid roll on unmolested. In fact they were busy recruiting the discontented racists who, no longer had a happy home in the Democratic party of Lincoln's time, were welcomed with open arms by the GOP, as it relinquished whatever right it still had to the sobriquet "The Party of Lincoln" once and for all when Strom Thurmond came over. The sheriff is actually going against type to act as he does, transcending his local tradition and politics. Boo is utterly apolitical.

CB

Good Times, Noodle Salad

reply

Here we go again.

"... conservatives of that era with rare exceptions were perfectly happy to chant "state's rights."

And, we are today. This is a federal-republic, not a central government. If you're not too busy, take a look at the Declaration, the Constitution and the Federalist Papers sometime.

"... they were busy recruiting the discontented racists who no longer had a happy home in the Democratic party of Lincoln's time, ..."

Thurmond was the only one of those Democratic segregationists to make the switch. All the others (see my earlier post for names and how they voted on every civil rights piece of legislation at the time -- "No") stayed comfortably, and prosperously, where they "happily" got their money and public support from -- into the 60's. Things changed radically for the Democrats only after they got a look at the number of blacks who were beginning to vote then. . . What's this you said about getting your "facts" straight about "history", etc.? . . . I'm afraid your "hallmark"'s hanging over the wrong hall.

Five 'ill get ya ten, everyone in that TKAM courtroom (below the balcony) was a Democrat, including every single member of that hapless jury.

If Boo is a-political, we should all be taking a lesson from him.

reply

[deleted]

They are not mandatory reading.

reply

[deleted]

You STILL haven't put any thought into it. Atticus is far from impotent, as millennia have truly proven. The only great people are the ones that have the courage to step forth and right wrongs without resorting to violence. Refuse to go on social media until you learn something and gain some intelligence--otherwise, stop wasting other people's time.

reply