Separate beds for Rob and Laura - The Dick Van Dyke Show (1961) Discussion

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Coyote95825 13 years ago

That ban on sleeping in the same bed also applied to real married couples such as Lucy and Desi. I heard that if a couple was on a bed one foot had to be on the floor at all times. It was certainly a different time!

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] CherDash 13 years ago

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flintstones:

The Flintstones was the first American animated show to depict two people of the opposite sex (Fred and Wilma; Barney and Betty) sleeping together in one bed, although Fred and Wilma are sometimes depicted as sleeping in separate beds. For comparison, the first live-action depiction of this in American TV history was in television's first-ever sitcom: 1947's Mary Kay and Johnny.[23]

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn!

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[–] OlLineRebel 13 years ago

"It's funny though, how Hollywood and corporations, dictated how people should act."

If you think they don't now, you're naive.

Yes, it's great having everyone !$#$!#$ing constantly on TV, no matter what age or marital status. And if it's not the act of !$!#@ing, it's the constant talk about it. Including the ads.

Great standards. Never mind we really don't need children seeing/hearing this.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] suzycreamcheese1 13 years ago

well said.

RIP Heath Ledger 1979-2008

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[–] djrosenblatt 12 years ago

I don't think this was from Hollywood "dictating". I think this came about because the movies were getting a bit too risque back in the 30's, and a lot of people were getting incensed. There was talk of the government coming in and imposing some strict "decency" rules on Hollywood, and the major studios' adoption of voluntary rules and standards was an effort to head off what they feared would be more onerous control from Washington.

Badgers? We don't need no stinkin' badgers! But if you could show us something in a nice possum...

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[–] djrosenblatt 12 years ago

I don't know about you, but every time I see that show, I just have to wonder: what if they had actually decided to defy the ban on same bed couples?

With Lucy & Desi, Ozzy & Harriet, and all the other sitcom couples of the 50's & early 60's, the separate beds thing seems unnecessarily prudish. But with Rob & Laura Petrie, it's just downright ludicrous and out of place. They were a truly modern, young, perhaps even "hip", American couple, and their characters did do and say some things that pushed the boundaries of the period.

By the mid-60's, I can't believe that the number of viewers who would have objected to the idea of showing a modern married couple sharing the same bed couldn't have been counted on one hand.

By the 2nd or 3rd season of the show, once it was well-established, they really should have just gone for it, and let the chips fall where they may. I really doubt there would have been that much flack.

I'd love to hear what Reiner, Van Dyke and Moore might have to say about that today. I wouldn't be surprised if, in retrospect, they think it was a bit silly of them not to try.

Badgers? We don't need no stinkin' badgers! But if you could show us something in a nice possum...

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[–] djrosenblatt 12 years ago

Just happened to notice an early 60's episode of The Twilight Zone in which a couple share a bed. Episode is "The New Exhibit", air date April 1963; scene occurs about 26 minutes in.

It would be interesting to note any other contemporaneous cases of couples sharing a bed on television. As I said, I think the producers of DVDS really wimped out on this issue.

Badgers? We don't need no stinkin' badgers! But if you could show us something in a nice possum...

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[–] zuzupetal_99 12 years ago

So funny, because up until a couple years ago, I thought people back then really slept in seperate single beds!

It's kinda weird seeing the married tv couples getting into seperate little beds.

"Are you going to your grave with unlived lives in your veins?" ~ The Good Girl

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] jaystarstar 10 years ago

I'm pretty sure "The Flintstones" started out with Fred and Wilma in twin beds, but later in its run they were in a king-size. Which probably explains where Pebbles came from.

================

4) You ever seen Superman $#$# his pants? Case closed.

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[–] snafuone 13 years ago

Well, fast forward a few years to "The Brady Bunch", where the characters "Mike" and "Carol" were shown sleeping in the same bed. I guess time changed in that short amount of time.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] artistathome 13 years ago

DVD started in 1961, very repressed. By the time it ended in 66 things were really changing.

I just watched an old epi of Lucy when they moved to the country. And they got scared of squirrels on the roof and she jumped in bed with Ricky and here came Little Ricky and the dog Fred. Everyone was in bed together, a single bed no less.

It was funny and seemed totally appropriate. But that is one of the few times you would see that in the 50s.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] soap1022 13 years ago

Yes, the only time they shared a bed was on their way to Hollywood but even then, Ethel had to pile all those pillows behind Fred and she said she did that every night. But in other episodes, Ethel and Fred never shared a bed.

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[–] cinesteam 13 years ago

wasn't the hays code still in effect or coming to an
end in the five year span of production on this show?

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[–] cinesteam 13 years ago

The Production Code, better known as the Hays Code, guided the morals of Hollywood from 1934 to 1967.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] cinesteam 13 years ago

I knew the hays code was in effect for film, but I
also thought it was in effect for television
as well.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] cinesteam 13 years ago

Yeah, I understand that, but I think if not mistaken the Hays Code affected television as well or at the very least influenced tv policing itself
as you say.

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[–] toking65000 13 years ago

I know some married people who sleep in seperate beds. Some people just don't sleep well with someone else in the bed with them.

My grandparents slept in seperate bedrooms lol

Just because we lose today's battle doesn't mean we've lost tommorow's war.

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[–] leader-7 13 years ago

how could they have had a son if they sleep in separate beds... that's really the question. ;-)

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] toking65000 13 years ago

Like I said I know married people who sleep in seperate beds, BUT obviously still have sex.

I have a friend like that he said he and his wife get together in the same bed to have sex, then to actually SLEEP, they go back to their own bed.

Just because we lose today's battle doesn't mean we've lost tommorow's war.

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[–] topix-761-664161 13 years ago

I'm pretty sure the couple (Robert Young and Jane Wyatt) in Father Knows Best shared a bed, but somebody had to keep one foot on the floor.

I really don't know why this was considered shocking. Most of us grew up with parents who slept in the same bed.

If you're too old to cut the mustard, you can always lick the jar.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] toking65000 13 years ago

What I find funny is, they DID show Sally and Laura in bed together and they showed Buddy and Rob in bed once.

Did they not realize GAY people existed back then and that 2 people of the same sex CAN be sexual with eachother the same as 2 people of the opposite sex.

Just because we lose today's battle doesn't mean we've lost tommorow's war.

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[–] mojo2004 12 years ago

What I find funny is, they DID show Sally and Laura in bed together and they showed Buddy and Rob in bed once.

Rob,Laura,Buddy & Sally all ended up in the same bed together (the pullout couch) in that same episode. 'Ghost of A Chantz' (S4 ep #2.

Just for the record, I'm not a Dude, I'm a Dudette!

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[–] lynnsrealm-1 13 years ago

Actually, Ozzie and Harriet Nelson were the first couple to sleep in the same bed. That was in the late 1950s. They had twin beds when the series started in the early 1950s though.

I wish these guys would stop jumping

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[–] Joannakathryn 13 years ago

If you watch the very first "I Love Lucy" episodes from 51 or 52, she and Ricky had twin beds pushed together. Later, they separated them.

Camera adds 10lbs;internet subtracts 50.

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[–] USTVFan 13 years ago

Could it be that they did not want to show Two Peoples who were not married to each other in real life sharing the same Bed on TV? even so they were just acting. when you think about it some of the first couples on TV to be shown in bed together were actually married n Real Life. It's would make sense if that was the case. It's was a different time back then, Sex was not a open topic back then and was only discussed behind closes doors betweens parents. It wasn't until the Late 60's-early 70s when everything began to change dramatically and the rules were allowed to be broken.

1970-2004: The best Years of Television

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[–] Joannakathryn 13 years ago

That could very well be. Also, the word "pregnant" was never said on TV until sometime in the 60s, I think. Lucy and Ricky talked about the baby all the time, but she was "expecting."

I thought the episode where she tries to tell Ricky is hilarious, because she's so obviously pregnant, wearing a pleated top.

When Gloria on All in the Family got pregnant, Archie was very uncomfortable with her saying the word. He told her bad girls got pregnant, nice girls got expecting.

If you go back to the 40s and the Blondie movies, in the episode where Blondie has Cookie, her pregnancy is not showing at all. Her stomach is as flat as can be.

Camera adds 10lbs;internet subtracts 50.

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[–] astro218 13 years ago

Actually, Rob and Laura DID sleep in a bed together at times. We just never saw it. Remember Rob's comment to Buddy and Sally in the "The Ghost of A. Chantz" episode about how Laura was always stealing the covers from him while in bed and if that happens to Sally, who's about to share a bed with Laura, to "just pull them back, she won't mind.."

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[–] USTVFan 13 years ago

They may have slept in the same Bed OFF CAMERA but we actually never saw them sleep in the same bed ON Camera.

1970-2004: The best Years of Television

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[–] Joannakathryn 13 years ago

In I Love Lucy, when they were traveling across the country with Fred and Ethel, there's an episode where they have to sleep in a fleabag hotel, in the same room. Lucy and Ricky are together of course, and so are Fred and Ethel who DEFINITELY weren't married in real life (they couldn't stand each other.)

Ethel says something about the awful old bed being a lot like theirs at home, but when we occasionally see their bedroom in NY, they have twin beds.

It's the one where every time a train goes by, the room shakes and the beds roll across the room.

Camera adds 10lbs;internet subtracts 50.

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[–] Neemy (6) 8 years ago

Ha, I'm replying to a 5 year old comment! Other instances where it is implied they will share a bed was on the flashback episodes "Honeymoons are For the Lucky": in the "bridal suite" Rob and Laura have rented, the owner (?) tells Rob it's a "combination living room and bedroom", pulls down a (single) murphy bed hidden behind some curtains, and says, "that's the bedroom.". In "Remember the Alimony", there's also only one bed in their hotel room in Mexico.

Also, assuming their "intimate relations" take place in the same bed (how would that work, otherwise? lol), there is some funny, suggestive dialogue in "Pink Pills and Purple Parents". When Laura is meeting Rob's parents for the first time, she asks Rob's mother if she'd like to see the bedroom. His mother says a quick, firm, "NO.". Laura looks at Rob uncomfortably, and his mother stammers, "P-p-p-perhaps later.".

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[–] [email protected] (5854) 8 years ago

Good memory!!! I always thought it was funny how Rob's mother did NOT want to see the bedroom!
Rob and Laura also had a double bed in their luxury hotel room in 'Never Bathe on Saturday.

Audiences were sophisticated enough to realize that characters had intimate lives without it being thrown in their faces.

In the Never Bathe episode, Rob looks around their hotel room and says, "There are some GREAT places in this room."

In the dvd commentary Carl Reiner says that Rob means "great places" for sex. I saw the episode many times and I never caught that meaning. lol The writing on the show was subtle.

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[–] Neemy (6) 8 years ago

I knew I was forgetting some! That episode (Never Bathe) was full of innuendo. I didn't know Rob Reiner meant that line about "all the great places" to be about sex! He also said the intent of her being offscreen was to make the audience picture Laura naked. Rob was going to *gasp* see his nude wife in the tub by breaking down the door. Even more obvious, once he gets the door opened, he laughs and tells the others in the room something like, "You've got to see this!", then quickly catches himself.

And the episodes with Laura wearing that black nightgown Rob bought her in Chicago. In "Don't Trip Over that Mountain", looks like Laura was expecting a little "something" when he got home, and he was adamant she change into something else (less sexy).

In "Like a Sister", Rob and Laura start "necking" on the couch, and the doorbell rings. Rob says something like "whoever it is, they'd be really embarrassed if they knew what they were interrupting!".

In, "The Brave and the Backache", Millie's line about them being "ALONE alone" is pretty obvious.

And the pilot episode ends with Laura walking off camera, suggestively removing her necklace. Rob leers at her, saying, "Yeahhhhhh!".

Sneaky, sneaky!

I think I may have gone slightly off-topic from the "separate beds" subject, lol.

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[–] [email protected] (5854) 8 years ago

Not really 'off-topic' when it comes to discussing beds. lol In 'Don't Trip Over that Mountain', Rob is determined that Laura stay angry with him so she doesn't learn about his "sprained body." The black nightgown? Yeah, I think he tells her to put on her warm jammies so she doesn't catch cold.

He tells Jerry that Laura will want to make up and "she'll want to hug me." I think "hug" was a euphemism. How painful could a little hug be? ha!

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[–] Neemy (6) 8 years ago

I always thought The DVD Show was poking fun at this in "Pink Pills and Purple Parents". At the dinner table, Laura, high on anxiety pills, says she felt a little dizzy. The ensueing conversation around the table purposely avoids the word "pregnant". Rob's mother says, "Dizzy? Laura, you're not...", Rob cuts her off with, "Oh, we're not, Mom.", looks at Laura and asks, "Honey, you're not..." to which Laura replies, "No, I'm not!", then Rob turns back to his parents and says, "She's not.". The kicker was when Rob's father naively asks, "Not what?" and Rob's mother looks at him in disbelief and snaps, "Oh, Sam, grow up!".

Great stuff.

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[–] poetcomic1 8 years ago

I was married and couldn't stand to be touched in my sleep. Separate beds worked for both of us It didn't hurt anything. As a matter of fact, sex was a lot more serious and romantic when it wasn't just half asleep groping - and the singles were crystal clear if I or she got up and joined the other.

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[–] vinidici 8 years ago

One can't help but wonder, why even bother sleeping in the same ROOM, let alone in the same bed? If they're going to sleep in separate beds...

Secret Message, HERE!--->CONGRATULATIONS!!! You've discovered the Secret Message!

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[–] TonyAtRest 8 years ago

It's called the ridiculous religous influence in this country. I imagine they were showing nudity in some countries in Europe during this same timeframe.

The Puritans that came to this continent on the Mayflower are still having an affect, even today.

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[–] vinidici 8 years ago

The Puritans that came to this continent on the Mayflower are still having an affect, even today.

Popular misconception, as the Mayflower passengers weren't from among the same group of religionists who, a few decades later, executed King Charles I and took over England, etc. They were simply a group who couldn't live in their home country because of persecution and restrictions to their freedom by the Church of England; nor could they remain in Holland, where religious freedom was more abundant but societal moral values were lax (their children were beginning to adopt the behavior and attitudes of the nonreligious or morally loose Dutch culture.) So they tried crossing the ocean to the New World, a journey and destination which proved fatal to a good half of their numbers.

The "Puritans" you're thinking of are either the Cromwell zealots or the Salem folks in Massachusetts, decades after the Plymouth Rock, etc. The Mayflower immigrants were simply those who sought what later developed into the prospectus of the Declaration of Independence and of the United States of America, itself: "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness."

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[–] pjpurple-1 8 years ago

I could understand the separate beds when the show debuted in 1961. But why were Rob and Laura still in twin beds in the 65/66 season?

Bewitched debuted in 1964 and the Stephens had a double bed. So did Herman and Lily Munster that year. Green Acres came on in 1966 and Oliver and Lisa Douglas had a double bed.

Wonder why the Petries had to have a nightstand between them? LOL Perhaps the show didn't want to buy any new furniture for the last season?

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[–] movieghoul 8 years ago

Heck, even Luke and Kate on The Real McCoys had a double bed. (But no kids.)

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[–] MissMargoChanning (6630) 7 years ago

I recall interviews with Dick Van Dyke and Mary Tyler Moore talking about the beds. They found it ridiculous because anyone could see that they really were very much in love and they had to be having sex frequently. I assume that they paid each other visits.

As for other shows, nobody on this thread mentioned the Cleavers! As I recall, June and Ward's bedroom was seen once when one of the boys woke the parents up in the middle of the night. The room was shown. it was one big bed...... apparently, they enjoyed each other's company.

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[–] [email protected] (5854) 7 years ago

I haven't seen Leave it to Beaver in years. But "one big bed"? Yeah I guess the stork didn't bring Wally and the Beav. lol

I don't know why the Petrie bedroom could not have been redecorated by season four with a big four poster bed. Bewitched debuted in 1964 and Samantha and Darrin had a double bed. The Munsters also debuted in '64 and Lily and Herman had a double bed. And in 1965 Green Acres had Lisa and Oliver Douglas in a double bed.

There was just some evil afoot to keep Rob and Laura separated by a nightstand! ha ha Maybe because they seemed so hot for each other in the daytime, the show decided to "cool it" at night. But I doubt that the Petries did!

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[–] GlenEllyn (21526) 7 years ago

It's hard not to judge old shows by today's standards. Back then, the standards were ridiculously very prudish, weren't they? I don't remember the Beaver episode with 'one big bed,' though.

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[–] [email protected] (5854) 7 years ago

Yes, some of the standards back then seem silly and strict. I mean, a married couple couldn't sleep in one bed?

However in some ways, the constraints placed on the writers forced them to be creative whether it had to do with sex or language. We just knew Rob and Laura had a happy love life even though they were in twin beds. And in "A Word a Day", we knew Ritchie was using some bad language without ever hearing it. It was funnier that way.

Writers were forced to come up with ways to imply things. I don't know if you're an I Love Lucy fan. There was an episode when Ricky had a week off and he was making a pest of himself following Lucy around as she did her housework.

He found a piece of lint on the floor that she missed with the carpet sweeper. He held it up and said, "What do you want me to do with this?"

The LOOK she gave him, holy cow, LOL! It was so much funnier than any vulgar suggestion that she could have made. Hilarious!

In some ways I like the "prudish" way that they only implied things. I don't need to see everything. Back then on The Andy Griffith Show, Andy and Barney had long time girlfriends, Helen and Thelma Lou. We never saw any more than the two couples sitting in the living room on the couch. Did they go upstairs? I don't want to know! ha!

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[–] GlenEllyn (21526) 7 years ago

Oh my gosh! I'm with you in that I don't have to see everything. Imagining is fine. I don't remember the Lucy episode, but yes, I'm a 'I Love Lucy' fan!

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[–] godewey (16472) 7 years ago

In my mind Barney and Thelma Lou never went up stairs. They waited. Although Barney got him self a little
wound up a few times. If I remember Thelma Lou put him in his place. I really don't need a picture of Barney
with his hair messed up, lipstick all over his face going upstairs to get his spiked collar and leash.

That's what made these shows so good. You didn't need everything spelled out for you. Everybody knew exactly
what was going on.

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[–] [email protected] (5854) 7 years ago

Well I DO have a picture of Barney with his hair messed up, covered in lipstick. lol I forget the episode it happened in, but he and Thelma Lou were making out on the couch. Andy came in and turned on the lights.

Barney tried to look his best to appear dignified and Andy tried not to burst out laughing.

I think Barney may have had a few fun dates with Juanita the waitress from down at the diner.

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[–] godewey (16472) 7 years ago

Juanita, Juanita Lovely, dear Juanita
Every time he called the diner who was it that he thought was Juanita.
Was it Frank ? Oh, Hi Frank.

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[–] [email protected] (5854) 7 years ago

Cockadoodle doo! Andy caught Barney at the courthouse giving her a "wake up call."

Barney thought of himself as a real ladies man.

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[–] godewey (16472) 7 years ago

He had quite a few. Including the fun girls.
Loved how he would call his women and say "It's Barn" or Big Barn.
Who was the girl he would walk to church with because it was on the way ?
Was it Miss Emmie or something like that ?

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[–] [email protected] (5854) 7 years ago

Gee, I can't remember. Do you have any idea what episodes they were?

I do recall Barney playing the field when he and Thelma Lou have an argument in "Barney on the Rebound". He made a date with that new woman in town, Gladys. After one date she told her "daddy", actually her husband, that Barney proposed.

They tried to sue Barney for breach of contract. Andy figured them for con artists. He couldn't understand why someone so pretty and "big city" would be all hot to marry Barney. Apparently that never occurred to ole Barn! ha

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[–] godewey (16472) 7 years ago

I remember that one. Jackie Coogan played the "father". He went on to play Uncle Fester.

I had to look up the one I mentioned. It was driving me crazy. It was Season 1 episode 7
It was Andy the Matchmaker. Her name was Miss Rosemary. Played by Amzie Strickland .
She was in several episodes of Andy Griffith and Dick Van Dyke.
Barney was going to quit the force and work at a pickle factory to be a brine tester.
Andy tried to boost his confidence by making a fake robbery at the drug store.
Then Barney actually brings in a criminal for the crime that never happened.
Barney kept saying the only reason he walked with her was because her place was
on the way to church.

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[–] [email protected] (5854) 7 years ago

Glad you looked up that episode! I went and watched it on youtube. Hadn't seen it in years.

The opening scene is one of the funniest ones ever! Barney quitting his job over a poem that Opie supposedly wrote! Like Andy pointed out, he had not learned how to write yet!

Barney wanted to solve crimes and wished someone would just kill somebody, but "No one that we know." LOL

Amzie Strickland was a very talented character actress. I remember her from many shows. But she did seem an odd love interest for Barney. She was so shy and demure. Barn seemed to be attracted to the "Fun Girls" type although Thelma Lou was not like that.

And the actress was a few years older than Don Knotts. Shows back then seemed to usually cast a much younger woman, even an ingénue, as a romantic partner for a man in his thirties.

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[–] godewey (16472) 7 years ago

This was early on in the series. I don't think they quite knew what to do with
Barney yet. If I remember Andy himself changed. Early on his accent was thicker
making him see more "hickish".

The fun girls were the kind of girls you partied with. Thelma Lou was the kind of girl
that you marry.

They had a few episodes I remember that Barney was very shy.
After he got settled in he became a tiger.

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[–] [email protected] (5854) 7 years ago

Oh yes, Andy and Barn changed from the first season. Andy Griffith for one thing, used a much heavier accent, affecting a bit of a country bumpkin persona.

I read that he was still doing his Will Stockdale character from "No Time for Sargeants. " He was an affable guy but kinda slow witted. Incidentally a HILARIOUS movie, I recommend it if you've never seen it. Don Knotts has a very funny scene as a psychiatrist in it.

The "fun girls" behavior vs. Thelma Lou? Almost straight out of Gone with the Wind (the book). One of the Tarleton twins, Brett, says, "Give me a good girl to court and a bad girl to have fun with."

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[–] godewey (16472) 7 years ago

I'm glad they made Andy the "normal" one. He could be the calming
influence in a town full "nuts"
No Time for Sergeants is one of my favorite comedies of all time.

She's the kind of girl you date, not the kind you take home to meet your mother.

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[–] [email protected] (38) 7 years ago

Regarding the original subject of this thread. About fifteen years ago I was given the opportunity to interview Mary Kay Stearns, who played the lead actress in the television show Mary Kay and Johnny (1947-1950).

Mary Kay told me that not only did she and her television husband (real-life husband Johnny Stearns) share the same bed on tv, but they also incorporated her real-life pregnancy into the show. When her baby was born he became a cast member, lying in a bassinet beside their bed. She said that around the time she and her husband were winding down their television show, the Catholic Church and other influential groups from that period of time started putting pressure on government and network officials to completely sanitize everything that was broadcast on television. She told me that it occurred in the early fifties because up until that time they really didn't know just how large their audience was. They once had a promotion where all those who watched the show and sent in a postcard to the network would receive a free bottle of Bayer aspirin. They had hundreds of bottles on hand and thought that amount would be more than enough - in fact, they were inundated with postcards and actually received thousands of responses.

This reminds me of an episode of Leave it to Beaver 'Captain Jack' where the CBS network refused to show a toilet, even though it was integral to the plot. The compromise was that they would only show the top portion of the toilet and not the bowl, as they felt seeing the whole toilet might be offensive to some viewers.

As far as Ward and June sleeping in the same bed - the last episode of the first season 'Cat Out of the Bag' has Wally waking up his parents to let them know that the Beaver is stuck up a tree in the back yard, but at no time do we actually see into their bedroom. The same applies to the episode that preceded it, 'Beaver's Guest', but this time it's Beaver at his parents bedroom door, reporting that Larry Mondello (who is sleeping over) is sick. Those are the only two episodes I can recall that contain scenes of the Cleaver's bedroom door.

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[–] godewey (16472) 7 years ago

Continues to amaze me how much power these different groups have.
Reminds of Tipper Gore and her war on rock and roll.
If you think about it TV is young in the grand scheme, cable more so.
It really has come a long way. In the 60's they wouldn't show a toilet seat vs.
what is on now. The 70's brought us Archie Bunker. I remember in the 80's
St. Elsewhere had an episode where Ed Flanders mooned the camera.
In repeats it was blurred out. In the 90's Dennis Franz showed his butt.
I'm sure there are more. I also remember CBS was fined 3 million dollars
for and episode of Without a Trace. I don't remember what that involved.

I don't watch much network TV now. Only two shows and they are both
on Fox and comedies. I would think if the big networks want to compete
with cable they have to keep pushing the envelope.

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[–] GlenEllyn (21526) 7 years ago

"Continues to amaze me how much power these different groups have."

Same here. I just finished reading the book, Philomena, that was made into a movie with Judi Dench in 2013. Philomena was searching for her son, born in Ireland in 1952, who she was forced to give up because she was unmarried. I'd seen the movie before I read the book. Although the movie was pretty good, left out was the story of how much power and influence the Catholic Church had with the government. It was horrifying to read how these young women were judged, shamed, and punished - the worst being that they were forced to sign away their babies, some after caring for them for two or three years.

Sorry, got a little away from the topic, but it was eye-opening to learn just how different (and ridiculous) the standards were back then.

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[–] godewey (16472) 7 years ago

And to think religion is meant to teach peace, love, tolerance and love your neighbor.

I saw that movie. I thought it was wonderful. Extremely sad but very
well done. What's sad is back then it took and entity like the Catholic
church to do this. Now days it doesn't even take that
.
I read a story a few years ago where a new perfume came out called
Catcall I believe. One woman said she saw it and didn't know if she
should be offended. So she went online and asked a group if it was offensive. They told her yes so they did a campaign to make the company change the name. Of course the company changed the name.

Is it offensive? I can't say. To me me it wasn't, but I am not a female.
There are far more pressing problems in the world than a name of a
perfume. The main thing I took from this story was when she saw the
name she didn't know if it was offensive. She had to ask.
We have completely lost the function to think for ourselves.

Well GlenEllyn now we are really off topic.

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