Do you think she was raped?


In the movie Laura's rape is questioned. But we really never get a conclusive answer (which is the intent of the film). But this film does raise the issue of sIut-shaming and blaming the victim. We can see that is not justifiable for rape. We can see how embarrassing it is for the victim- to have the crime discussing in excruciating detail and to be analyzed and objectified.

Do you think she was raped?

Laura's personality is something to consider. She is portrayed as flirtatious. However we know that she came out of an abusive marriage and possible went into another one. She clearly has some mental health issues. I am just trying to take out the notion that she was "asking for it." Yes, she got drunk and hopped into a car with Barney. Might she have intended to have sex with Barney? Maybe. Because she was drunk, unhappy with her marriage? Maybe.

Note her use of language. She says that in both attacks, Barney let her know what was about to be raped/attacked.

When she came back to her husband, was he vilifying her for being out with a man (as if it were usual) or did he (or did he not) believe she was raped? She It's clear that she and her husband are not in the happiest relationship.

I think the movie purposefully portrays the actuality of the rape as vague because it makes us wonder if Frederick was justified or not (even though the whole point of the trial was not to portray the murder as "revenge.") Who knows how much of what Laura and Frederick say is the truth. Maybe Frederick gave her that black eye instead of Barney. That is implied in the movie. She didn't break down and cry when she talked about her rape. She seemed to take it quite well.

The way I see it, it was rape. I think it was one of those situations that quickly turns from exciting to horrible. Maybe when Barney tore off her panties, it was still "consensual." Did Barney actually say "I am going to rape you"? Probably not, but Laura might have said this to make her story seem more believable. But I think Barney did get forceful- she didn't want to make the situation worse. Rape is not always black and white. There is not some key moment or checklist that makes you think, "she deserved it."

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Laura did not display the emotional torment of someone who had been raped, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Perhaps she had been in that situation before and managed to deal easily with the matter as repeated victims can do.

No doubt that Laura was emotionally disturbed. She continued to bar hop and flirt even as her husband was jail and the lawyers were preparing his defense. Perhaps Laura's husband needed to kill her lover to deal with the notion that he had married a tramp.

In any case, I found the story confusing but with excellent character acting.

To answer your question, I think Laura willingly went with Barney to park and make out and Barney got rougher than she wanted so Laura changed her mind. But by this time, Barney was so wound up that he attempted to rape Laura. She fought him and prevented his completion. Thus, there was no forensic evidence of the sex act.

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Isn't there usually some evidence of rape?

I believe there is something said that it is impossible to tell if a married woman has recently had sex (I could be mistaken about the wording. I'm not up to that part of the movie yet).

It seemed this raped had been relatively brutal, according to the victim.

Current 'crime shows' don't seem to adhere that theory (about it being impossible to tell).

Short Cut, Draw Blood

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It can be difficult to tell from a physical examination alone if a woman has been raped. Sometimes there are patterns/placement of bruises that tend to indicate forcible penetration but certainly the absence of those bruises doesn't mean that a rape didn't occur.

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-- it was even stated in the movie when 'Floyd the Barber' testified he stated that by definition Rape need not include 'completion'

-- and as Most/all Procedurals in the last decade have demonstrated at least once a season It is difficult if not impossible to distinguish between Rape and consensual Rough Sex

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The evidence of the rape, finally, is the fact that the panties in question were dropped into the laundry chute from the rooms Quinn had at the inn. 1) The panties were torn, pointing to rape and 2) the panties were brought in to court for proof, but were never examined for evidence. The fact that they were torn and found in that chute was what determined the case.

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Had she contacted the police instantly after the incident using modern methods it owuld be possible to tell if she had sexual intercourse (not certain about the 60s methods though, may not have been suficcient).

However since she contacted the police only the next morning, it probably wasnt possible to tell anymore.

This is why it is important to contact police IMMEDIATELY and without changing anything that could be counted as evidence.

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I agree with you. I think she got into that car with Barney after flirting with him, but didn't want to have sex with him. Whether or not she got the black eye from her husband,I don't know. But I DO think she was raped.

She comes off as someone who has a history of sexual abuse. She's inappropriately flirtatious with every man, and enjoys baiting them. I think her relationship with her husband is unhealthy, and one of them will probably end of killing the other. Just my 2 cents.

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I agree with your analysis. I think she was raped. To our younger readers, there was much more belief back then that if a woman dressed or acted inappropriately, that she somehow deserved what she got.

They were an extremely dysfunctional couple. He was jealous and she provoked her husband to the point that he would beat her.

In today's world, the husband would have been convicted. A "blackout" or temporary insanity defense won't work. If he had come in and found them and then grabbed a gun and shot the guy because his wife screamed she was being raped, it would have been considered a crime of passion and probably would have had minimal, if any, jail time.

I felt most sorry for the victim's daughter--being illegitimate also carried a stigma back then.

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Was the victim's daughter's birth a result of rape?

If you dint want him dead, why yall leave him with me?-Mouse

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I don't think they were aiming for that...

But it's safe to assume that leaving b*st*rds scattered across the region in the 1950s would not endear you to jury... It would have implied a degree of 'moral failing' where they think If he's a "love 'em and Leave 'em" type, than who's to say he needed them to love him back.

also the whole "-Were you his Lover?... -No I'm his daughter" exchange just made the Prosecutor look inept

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In many ways this movie reminds me of The Accused. The audience doesn't know until near the end of the movie what actually took place. They kept it ambiguous during the beginning and middle of the movie to let the audience decide for themselves, then showed us what happened during the witness testimony.

And yes, I do think Lee Remick's character flirted and got into the car willingly but WAS raped.

Great movie.

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I just saw this movie for the first time the other day and I was pretty blown away by the language and themes discussed in a movie from this period. As far as we've come as a society, this issue is as relevant as ever and the tactics used by the prosecutors are the same still used by many lawyers (where the law allows them to).

Throughout the film she's shown to be a flirt, either by acts we witness directly or hear about second hand. She obviously enjoys male attention and puts herself in some compromising positions for a married woman. I think she enjoyed the attention for the manly-man Barney, but wasn't ready for sex yet. Some aspects of her story match up to her being raped, including the torn panties.

We really can't be certain about anything as the film stays vague on nearly every issue. Was Lt. Manion really suffering from temporary insanity, or was that a ploy he was taking from his lawyer? Did he really confide to that fellow inmate about faking all of this and being happy to get away with murder? Did he really beat his wife?

I will have to agree with a previous poster in stating that regardless of what really happened, that marriage is destined for troubles and eventual divorce.

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[deleted]

Yes, she was raped. We know for a fact that she was raped because of two things: 1) She passed her polygraph test and was found to be telling the truth when she said she was raped and 2) The panties were ultimately found at the bottom of a laundry chute that was only used by Barney and his daughter. They were white (the color the victim claimed they were), they were made by a specific shop in a specific town and had a label in them reflecting that (the victim had claimed they were made and purchased in that shop) and most importantly, they were torn - just like the victim claimed he had done. Furthermore, Barney Quill came in after raping her and had a short amount of time to shower, put his clothes back on, ditch the panties and get downstairs, because he knew the husband would be coming to the bar. He DID get his barman to sit by the window to see if the soldier was approaching and he DID get behind the bar where there was a gun stashed, but he did not expect the soldier to walk in, not say a word and fire.

One of the points of her character appearing slutty and inappropriate is that the viewer is supposed to have doubt of Barney Quill's guilt. Because she is an unsympathetic character and her husband is, too, we are never sure what happened in the case until the very end, when the panties are found.

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[deleted]

I don't think she was raped, but that there was an attempted rape. Here's what I believe:

Laura was indeed flirting with Barney and went out to lover's lane with him. He started to get rough, hit her and rip off her panties, but she got away before he had a chance to do anything with her or maybe he even stopped himself.

She comes home in an obvious mess and now has to explain to her husband what she was doing out in the middle of the night. Of course she can't say that she goes out cruising for guys so she claims that she was just minding her own business when Barney pounced out of nowhere and raped her. He beats her up not believing a word she says and then makes her swear on a rosary she's telling the truth.

The reason why I don't believe she was actually raped was the lack of evidence (sorry, not buying the lack of completion argument), the holes in her story and the absurd things she claimed happened. If Barney had kicked the dog out of the car, what were the odds of him bringing the dog back into the car and driving them back again? Or beating her up for a second time trying to attack her again after he had driven her back home? Or Barney saying, "I'm going to rape you?" Or that whole nonsense about the dog guiding her way back to the trailer park with a flashlight?

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How did the panties get to the bottom of the laundry chute that could only have come from Barney's private quarters?

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How did the panties get to the bottom of the laundry chute that could only have come from Barney's private quarters?


Maybe she left them in the car afterwards because was too shaken or upset by his attempted rape to retrieve them. Or maybe she left them behind because they were ruined. (It would've been impossible to walk in them that badly ripped without them falling down her ankles the entire time.) I don't know. But I don't think everything happened the way she claimed they did. I'm prepared to believe that maybe Barney got a little rough and tried something, but not convinced he raped her. A rapist isn't going to say, "I'm going to rape you," or be considerate enough to bring a victim's dog back into the car after kicking him out.

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The film holds up a mirror to the society of its time -- which could be a few years before 1958 or 1959; the actual event the story was based on took place in 1952 -- to demonstrate how ordinary people regarded allegations of rape and accusations of murder, among other topical issues. It's obvious that neither of the Manions is what anyone would mistake for a model citizen, proof that the 1950s were not only about morally upstanding families like the Cleavers on Leave It to Beaver or the Andersons on Father Knows Best. Viewers form their opinions about Laura's relative guilt or innocence based on the facts presented about her personality. In that regard the film also acts as a time capsule illustrating how the public's attitude toward such actions has changed. In 1959, many may have judged Laura because she dressed comfortably, frequented bars alone, and generally didn't mind the attention men besides her husband paid to her as long as no liberties were taken. Ten or twenty years on, she could be seen as a woman who had liberated herself successfully from society's norms. Gillian Holroyd was a similar free spirit in Richard Quine's Bell, Book and Candle, released the previous year. Gillian belonged to a different social class and ultimately decides to don the high heels, conservative colors, and confining belt that signal her willingness to conform in order to secure stability in her relationships.

The question of whether Laura was actually raped or not lives and dies in the mind of the individual viewer, as does its answer. It's important for the public to know that woman can be raped without the assailant's leaving any damning physical evidence. Wendell Mayes's screenplay suggests that murder victim Barney Quill might have used a condom (though that exact word isn't used in the film). It also affirms that the rapist need not climax to be guilty of sexual assault -- something a lot of viewers probably didn't want to think about in 1959. My thought is that if Laura hadn't actually been raped -- and didn't think an investigation might produce evidence of sexual congress between her and Barney -- she probably would have told her husband a different story, either true or false. In 2014 the character is more likely to be vilified for giving her faithful dog beer to drink than for dressing provocatively. The point of the story is that even the most moral individuals, like defense attorney Paul Biegler, occasionally have completely amoral intentions.

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I believe she WAS raped.Barney probably beat her when he couldn't see the act through COMPLETION.Perhaps she ridiculed him due to this fact.

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No!

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