MovieChat Forums > The Searchers (1956) Discussion > Can I Ask: Why Do People -Like- This So ...

Can I Ask: Why Do People -Like- This So Much?


Not a troll post... I -sincerely- want to try and understand why so many people educated people talk about this movie with such reverence.

I consider myself a fairly savvy film lover. If a movie is considered a 'classic' I make a sincere effort to try to 'get it'... even if there's no visceral appeal. And most of the time, I can at least -see- what all the fuss is about.

But this is my 3rd shot in 20 years at this thing and frankly? It just strikes me as dated, hammy and almost a caricature. I love 'classic' movies as much as the next guy... and I understand that 'westerns' are something of a world of their own, but jeeez. Most of these characters are like cartoon characters.

I've read just dozens of critical essays talking about the 'multi-layered depth' of this things and all the hidden meanings but at the end of the day? I think it's the Emperor's New Clothes.

It seems to me that it simply fed into the prejudices of moviegoers in 1956 and is nowhere near the equal of movies from that era.

OK... what am I missing. If you just like Westerns as a guilty pleasure? Or it has great memories of childhood? Or you just think John Wayne is cool Fine. I've got dozens of movies like that---but I don't go on about how 'great' they were. I just -liked- 'em.

SO: What are all these 'depths of greatness'?

TIA,

---JC

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I completely share your opinion on this movie. I watched it carefully twice and can not find anything so special about it or understand why it is considered to be a masterpiece. I think it's not even close to some of John Ford's movies, neither it is the best movie John Wayne starred in, though his performance was brilliant in this one.

Every scene was shot in a wonderful way, but there's too many comic (or supposed to be comic) situations. I guess Ford wanted to present the bright side of the life in The Old West too, but some of those scenes are crossing the main plot too often, and usually just when the plot gets really interesting.

And I still can't understand why did Martin and Ethan expect one of those two girls that were 'liberated' by the army to be Debbie, when both of them are clearly BLONDES! If anyone should've known Debbie's hair was black, that's Martin. Comanches (who speak Navajo) certainly did not dye it to blue. They would've maybe done it the other way around, if it was needed...

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The question of errors is interesting. My take

One group is not really errors but just the way they did things

a--Debbie in make-up in Teepee. No matter how many days a starlet was supposed to have been out in the wind and sun in those days, she was always made up as if just stepping out of a swanky Hollywood beauty salon.

b--indoor for outdoor scenes. For some reason, probably the lighting for the color cameras, nighttime scenes were generally in the fifties filmed on a sound stage. It is noticeable and often looks phony.

c--day for night shooting using filters.

All of this might be jarring for younger viewers not used to these techniques, but they were the style of the day. Doesn't mean criticism isn't warranted.

A second group is outright errors or possible errors

1--How does Marty get home so quickly when he's on foot? He seems to arrive about the same time as Ethan does.

2--When did it get daylight for the final attack?

3--One that is not in their error list but I have always felt since I first saw it as the most obvious flub. When Ethan and Debbie and Marty are by the river, we see a Comanche firing an arrow. The Comanches have been armed with rifles up to this point. More importantly, we see the arrow leave and take flight, but Ethan appears to be hit by a bullet. There is no sign of an arrow as far as I can see. They had techniques for faking a person being hit with an arrow back then, so I don't really know why they just relied on Wayne spinning around. Or for that matter, why Ford just didn't have the Comanche fire a rifle.

4--One that might not matter to anyone but me, but I grew up on a farm raising cattle. Monument Valley makes an impressive location, but, how would you raise cattle there? There is not one blade of grass as far as the eye can see around the Jorgenson ranch. The ranch scenes should perhaps have been filmed elsewhere where there was grass for grazing, but that would have lessened the visual beauty of the film.

As for cars or sunglasses, I have never noticed those.

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Interesting. I never really noticed those things. Or rather, I'm old enough that they aren't in any way distracting (eg. day for night, 'frontier' women in full makeup, etc.) Even the 'farming in Monument Valley' problem doesn't bug me... that sort of thing is so common in old movies I'm willing to pretend that cows can live off beautiful sunsets. :D )

My problems are more with little things like 'acting' and ridiculous dialog. :D

I started out genuinely puzzled and non-judgmental. This was not a troll thread. But I re-watched the thing at least twice after reading some comments and I went from 'I don't get it' to 'Oh... please.' It didn't get any better.

I can't say anymore than I already said when I started this thread 2 years ago: I think people like it for the same reason I still think fondly about 'spaghettios'. You grow up with something yer likely to think it's 'great' and no one's gonna talk you out of it.

I like LOTS of older movies... including some John Ford ones and it's still amazing to me why -this- one is so beloved by critics and some others are not. It's defintely beautiful and 'epic' and if it had tackled 'racism' or what not 20 years earlier I'd probably value it a lot more highly. But for 1956? Dated.

I recently saw 'The Unforgiven' which was made a few years later and it too had some real silliness. My -guess- is that 'racism' was such a touchy topic (at least for Westerns) back then that it really hampered movie-making. I'm sure the studios were very nervous and kinda dumbed these movies down a great deal.

YMMV.

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Interesting. I never really noticed those things. Or rather, I'm old enough that they aren't in any way distracting (eg. day for night, 'frontier' women in full makeup, etc.) Even the 'farming in Monument Valley' problem doesn't bug me... that sort of thing is so common in old movies I'm willing to pretend that cows can live off beautiful sunsets. :D )

My problems are more with little things like 'acting' and ridiculous dialog. :D

I started out genuinely puzzled and non-judgmental. This was not a troll thread. But I re-watched the thing at least twice after reading some comments and I went from 'I don't get it' to 'Oh... please.' It didn't get any better.

I can't say anymore than I already said when I started this thread 2 years ago: I think people like it for the same reason I still think fondly about 'spaghettios'. You grow up with something yer likely to think it's 'great' and no one's gonna talk you out of it.

I like LOTS of older movies... including some John Ford ones and it's still amazing to me why -this- one is so beloved by critics and some others are not. It's defintely beautiful and 'epic' and if it had tackled 'racism' or what not 20 years earlier I'd probably value it a lot more highly. But for 1956? Dated.

I recently saw 'The Unforgiven' which was made a few years later and it too had some real silliness. My -guess- is that 'racism' was such a touchy topic (at least for Westerns) back then that it really hampered movie-making. I'm sure the studios were very nervous and kinda dumbed these movies down a great deal.

YMMV.

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Well, I recommend watching The Last Hunt made the same year and released, I think, within weeks of The Searchers.

It has nothing like the visual beauty of The Searchers,

but as for treating racism and racial hatred, it is much the better film.

*Ford might have been an unequaled visual artist, but his view of the west and western history is at best stunted, in my judgment.

**I wouldn't judge all directors by Ford. His viewpoint was not at all advanced, even for the time.


"This one is so beloved by critics"

In its own day, despite having a four-time Oscar winner directing, possibly the most famous director of the day, and a major box-office star as its lead, it was ignored by almost everyone. It could be that at a time when Hollywood was showing increasing sensitivity on racial matters, this one is a downright throwback and folks saw it that way. Only compare how the Indian maidens in The Searchers and in The Last Hunt are presented.

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Thanks, I'll definitely check that out.

I feel like The Searchers is a movie out of time. It -feels- like it was made a decade earlier. As you say, the movie is as beautiful as a painting for sure.

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...this one is a downright throwback and folks saw it that way.

I think it's quite the opposite. And I think most film historians have the same view. People wanted to watch an entertaining John Wayne Western and got a lot more subtext and meaning than they were accustomed to. They probably didn't quite know what to make of it.

This quote sums it up well:
American movie-goers in the fifties didn’t embrace The Searchers as much as some other John Wayne westerns because these folks went to movies for entertainment (which the Duke almost invariably delivered), not for sociological analysis or for a pretext for indignation.


http://spectator.org/articles/55704/searching-duke

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"American movie-goers in the fifties didn't embrace The Searchers as much as some other John Wayne westerns"

It was a solid box-office hit. What is the evidence it was not embraced by the general public/the average fan?

Wikipedia lists the top ten box-office films per year, and The Searchers is listed #6 in 1956, the highest listing of any John Wayne film in the 1950's.

In contrast, Wings of Eagles, the John Wayne-John Ford film released in 1957 had a LOSS of $821,000 according to the info from the Eddie Mannix ledger given in the John Wayne filmography.

**The Searchers seems to have popular enough with the public. It was the critics who ignored it or found it lacking.

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. . . "the critics" and the Academy (not a surprise really).

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I've been ramblin' around some western threads, arrived here, 398, have been very impressed by the level of discussion of The Searchers, a movie I was sufficiently moved by to initiate a thread on the classics board many years ago. It was an interesting thread, with many dissenters (as here).

Debbie's makeup is jarring near the end of the movie, which, to be wholly successful in its bittersweet, somewhat tragic conclusion, ought not to have goaded the lion of laughter in his den when Natalie Wood shows up, looking like she could be Donna Reed's TV neighbor. That the actor who plays Scar doesn't look the least bit Native American doesn't help matters, either.

What struck me the last time I watched The Searchers (and it's been a while) was just how sloppy a film-maker the sixtyish John Ford had become by the mid-50s. Was it drink, creeping senility, or a combination of the two? This is the same director who, less than a decade prior to this film, made She Wore a Yellow Ribbon and My Darling Clementine; and each is near flawness for what it is.

Go back almost two decades and there was Stagecoach, so right in period detail in ways that The Searchers is wrong. The towns of Tonto and Lordsburg look real (if stylized, in the latter's case). The people milling around the streets, the prostitutes, the gamblers, the cowboys, have a ring of truth about them as if director Ford had gone back sixty years in time to make the film. There are few false notes here and there, but also some stunning action scenes. There's also much beauty; in the lighting, the photography, the set design, the pacing, the music.

The Searchers isn't devoid of these qualities. I'm not suggesting that John Ford had become a raving lunatic by 1956, but he'd lost a good deal of his power: of observation, especially, of the rightness of the way a scene looks; in his attention to detail; and in his decision making abilities. There's a loosness to The Searchers that Ford's earlier films don't have (think of even non-westerns: Air Mail, The Lost Patrol, The Informer, The Prisoner Of Shark Island). Still, flaws and all, I'm an admirer of The Searchers, accept its director's waning powers as part of the mix. The timing in many scenes is often poor; and yet at other times Ford rallies and delivers the goods.

The Searchers simply has too many things wrong with it to be a great film. Had John Ford made it a decade earlier it almost certainly would have been. As it is, it's very good; and the director's caring for his characters, the poeple in the story he tells, is, as always, a huge asset. John Ford was if nothing else a humanist; and his humanity is evident in every scene in this film in which the landscape retreats and human beings are the focus of the story.

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Nice post, but I can't agree.

Ford's "waning powers of the mix."

I think you're looking throught the telescope from the wrong end. Ford always had an incredible talent for creating a sense of "time and place". Frankly, I don't know how he did it, but he didn't do it with the attention to physical detail, realism (no blood in a single action sequence in any of his action-packed pictures), make-up, set decoration, etc. you suggest he did better in the old days -- no more, at least, than any other "A" picture director during the same period. E.g., Ireland isn't/wasn't really as it is pictured in The Quiet Man, and Monument Valley isn't located in south Texas. Ford certainly knew this, and so, his focus, then, is on what they ought to have been, or what they are thought to have been by his audience. ("When the legend becomes fact, print the legend" - TMWSLV). In short, Ford's vision was a spiritual one, not a physical one. Apropos for The Searchers which is an elegy, and, when you think about it, so are the other pictures you reference in a more favorable light -- Stagecoach, She Wora a ..., My Darling .... I.e., Though physically misplaced, Monument Valley is intended to dwarf the people of the play (settler and Indian), and their problems -- to put them into a right proportion, so to speak, against the overwhelming power of their environment. . . How hard it was then! Or, as you have aptly termed it -- "the rightness of the scene ...", or, if I may add -- the picture as a completed work.

The Searchers is, indeed, a "great" picture . . . one of the greatest yet made. The product of a maturing Ford, not a waning Ford -- IMO.

Thoughtful post, though, and thanks.

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Thank you for responding, cwente. Yes and yes. There was a deep, elegaic side to John Ford. It's there even in Wee Willie Winkie as well as Young Mr. Lincoln. Your perspective is an interesting one and I see no reason to argue over it; and besides, it's one man's opinion. Some of it I agree with.

If I seem too harsh on Ford maybe it's his excess of blarney (absent from The Searchers); his fondness for fisticuffs and hard drinking real men. Then there's his reverence for institutions; not business, but government. In this he rather anticipatd (inspired?) Jack Webb and his police shows, first on radio, then on television.

In Ford's case it's the army, the cavalry especially; then the navy and the air force. He respects men who wear uniforms and have a job to do (and who don't get rich at it, either). This is emphasized in the closing narration of the stunning She Wore a Yellow Ribbon.

I am a great admirer of John Ford. He's one of my favorite (American) directors, up there with Orson Welles, Frank Capra and Alfred Hitchcock in his American period. He was a pictorialist, on the one hand; and yet his movies are always about people.

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Yes and nicely said. Thanks

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I’ve been pondering The Searchers for the past week because I was reading Glenn Frankel’s outstanding book ‘The Searchers’: The Making of an American Classic, and so I was poking around this board. I highly recommend Frankel if you haven’t read him; he plumbs the entire backstory of The Searchers, devoting a couple hundred pages to Cynthia Ann Parker, the woman whose tragic story of captivity, rescue, and early death, inspired Alan LeMay to write the novel of The Searchers in the first place. By going so deeply into the history behind the film and the novel, Frankel addresses a lot of the issues around the film and makes a good case for it being a masterpiece—even though, like you, I don’t really agree that it is a “masterpiece,” a word that is really thrown around much too often among film buffs anymore. I feel it’s lost its charge, and perhaps should be retired, or at least put on hiatus.

For all of that, I do love The Searchers, and tend to ignore its flaws. Its visual beauty tops Ford’s other Monument Valley Westerns, IMO—probably the VistaVision—and its human story is more moving every time I see it. Ford was a great student of the Expressionists, and The Searchers has always struck me as his pinnacle achievement in making Monument Valley into a visual extension of the characters’ inner lives—which is why no one cares, ultimately, that he filmed the movie there, on the dark side of the moon, rather than in Texas where the story supposedly takes place.

By coincidence, I just watched the Criterion edition of Stagecoach last night, along with all its great extras, and The Searchers does indeed suffer by comparison, chiefly in the structure and pace, I think. Here (in Stagecoach) is a full bore, non-stop Western adventure with a large cast of characters, brilliant production design, and plenty of lyrical side trips into the emotions of frontier people (not to mention the extraordinary photography by Bert Glennon). The Searchers has many moments that are true to the period and psychology of its characters, but there’s no connective tissue, or rather, there’s too much space between them. Unlike Stagecoach, the later film is filled with contradictory impulses from the Old Man, weird changes in tone that might be excused as genius, if one leans toward such things, but seem more likely to be lapses in artistic judgment. Some people (Glenn Frankel among them) think Ford’s looseness on The Searchers is a sign of confident mastery, but I think it’s a distressing sign of uncertainty in an artist who once made film history.

I agree that The Searchers also suffers in comparison with My Darling Clementine (a shameless mythologizing of the real history, but I don’t care because its artistry as a piece of film storytelling is so airtight) and She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, in which John Wayne gives just as good a performance as he does in The Searchers, only he’s portraying a much more accessible human being in Capt. Nathan Brittles. His early scenes with Victor McLaglen are knee-slappers, from the time when Ford could still show a deft comic touch.

I did a lot of research on The Searchers at one time, for a possible thesis about Ford and iconoclasm, read his papers and notes in preparation for the film (the actual papers, in the Lilly Library), and I think he was suffering from the alcoholism that was taking over his mind after years of hard drinking. He’d just been fired off Mr. Roberts for missing too many days and totally alienating his star, and he was at one of the lowest points of his career when he tried to save his reputation with The Searchers, a gambit that worked because the film was a sizeable hit, squeezing into the box office top ten for 1956. But he was still dazed, I think, by alcoholic laziness and hesitation. He was too much of a maestro to make a bad film out of this material, but he wouldn’t rally his wounded consciousness for one last, final stab at greatness until 1962’s The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.

We didn't exactly believe your story...we believed your 200 dollars.

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Nice piece. Thank you.

I don't care much for comparisons, however. All the Ford films you mention are brilliant, imo. Personally, I find it difficult to draw a conclusion about any one of them because another one did something else entirely, or did the same thing differently. It comes down to a subjective judgement in any case.

Re Ethan vs. Brittles, the more "accessible" human being -- well, Ethan is the perfect transplant of the Greek hero in Greek tragedy. He isn't supposed to be accessible in any way, to anyone, including the audience (Scar is made of the same clay). Both of those men are truly tragic figures (both dead, at least spiritually, at the picture's end), not just elegiac like Brittles. Unlike Ethan and Scar, they, Ethan and Brittles, are, thus, different characters/men in their proper dramatic spaces -- both well-played by Wayne.

"Period" and "psychology". I'm very curious to know what you mean by "... there's no connective tissue, or rather, there's too much space between them"; "contradictory impulses from the Old Man"; "weird changes in tone that might be excused as genius"? You make some comparisons, but I'm still lost as to your meaning artistically as regards The Searchers specifically.

Also, I'm inclined not to think Ford's alcoholism had much to do with the outcomes of any of the films you reference. (Sometimes, an alcoholic does his best work while under the influence.)

Lastly, I'm inclined to think both The Searchers and TMWSLV are "stabs at greatness" which hit their marks convincingly for audiences privileged to have seen them in their original big screen venues. . . In short, I can make a "great" souffle' and I can make a "great" garden salad on the same, or different, days.

Thanks for a thought-provoking post and Best

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Nice piece.


Thanks.

I don't care much for comparisons, however. All the Ford films you mention are brilliant, imo. Personally, I find it difficult to draw a conclusion about any one of them because another one did something else entirely, or did the same thing differently. It comes down to a subjective judgement in any case.


Well, I was responding to Telegonus’ comments of May 31, and he was addressing the disparity between the looser style of The Searchers and the tighter, “near flawless” storytelling acumen Ford exhibited just a few years previously with My Darling Clementine and She Wore a Yellow Ribbon. Thus, we (Tel and me) weren’t necessarily weighing the three films against each other, or in comparison to Stagecoach, for that matter, but weighing them all as John Ford films, and therefore of a piece in that regard. Admittedly, we were passing judgment, and it was largely based on how effectively he achieved the goal of making, in each case, a popular work of art and mass entertainment that also illuminated his concerns about history and how it is lived—in the moment, before it’s history.

In other words, there are indeed many differences between these films, in their particulars as individual narratives, but they all have in common John Ford and his approach to a well known genre that had certain conventions and rules, many of which he developed. At some point, there are bound to be thematic intersections between them all, given that the same man is guiding their creation, such as (to name one example) Ford’s ongoing concern with the push-pull opposition of the Man of Violence vs. Civilization, something he addresses in every one of his Westerns, e.g., how do we deal with violence as a society, how much do we need the Man of Violence to help establish order, and how do we cope with him once his job is done and his peculiar talents aren’t needed any more. This theme is so much a part of John Ford’s cinema, it even works its way into non-Westerns such as The Grapes of Wrath and The Quiet Man.

The Searchers approaches being his definitive statement on the matter, and in the arc of his career, especially post-Stagecoach and post WWII, it reveals a much darker vision of the uses and abuses of violence than he’d ever before shown to audiences (though it mostly went over their heads in 1956), especially through Ethan’s obsessive actions and his climactic fate, doomed “to wander forever between the winds,” never to be part of the society he has worked to heal, his own heart beyond repair.

Re Ethan vs. Brittles, the more "accessible" human being -- well, Ethan is the perfect transplant of the Greek hero in Greek tragedy. He isn't supposed to be accessible in any way, to anyone, including the audience (Scar is made of the same clay). Both of those men are truly tragic figures (both dead, at least spiritually, at the picture's end), not just elegiac like Brittles.


But...well...I disagree that Ethan is a perfect transplant of the protagonist of Greek tragedy. His literary counterpart, Amos Edwards, in the novel of The Searchers, comes closer to fitting the bill. Amos really does die in the final battle, along with Scar, murdered by Debbie’s Comanche doppelgänger after he spares her life. Ethan, the film version of Amos, stops short of evoking the chilly shudder of terror and pity that a full blown tragic figure, such as Oedipus, evokes in his inexorable march to self-destruction.

I also feel that the Ethan-Scar connection, while certainly there, is underdeveloped. It could be because Duke Wayne is such a towering figure, Henry Brandon is almost a cipher by comparison. Everyone manages to be overshadowed by Wayne, though Ward Bond certainly has his scene-stealing moments.

Unlike Ethan and Scar, they, Ethan and Brittles, are, thus, different characters/men in their proper dramatic spaces -- both well-played by Wayne.


This is in reference to my saying that Wayne gives as good a performance in the role of Brittles as he does in the role of Ethan. What is probably unspoken here, and perhaps the source of your uncertainty about why I’m comparing the two, is my own frustrations with film biographers and historians incessantly beating the drum that Ethan is Wayne’s finest hour. I don’t think it is, but then I’m more of a Wayne aficionado than most critics, and film historians, and I always have the suspicion that they like his performance in The Searchers so much because Ethan’s rage and prejudice fit their conception of what Wayne was really like.

But it’s not what he was really like. That’s what makes it such a great performance. He was stepping out of his comfort zone—mostly—and giving us a glimpse of a frightful, compelling figure.

So: I’m often pointing to other fine performances by Wayne as being “just as good” as his Ethan. Nathan Brittles, for one instance, and Thomas Dunson in Red River for another, and Tom Doniphon in Liberty Valance and so on.

"Period" and "psychology". I'm very curious to know what you mean by "... there's no connective tissue, or rather, there's too much space between them"; "contradictory impulses from the Old Man"; "weird changes in tone that might be excused as genius"? You make some comparisons, but I'm still lost as to your meaning artistically as regardsThe Searchers specifically.


Well, let’s see if I can do this quickly and succinctly. I feel there are many great scenes in The Searchers, as good as anything in Ford, where the cast is striking all the right notes and the power of the director’s shot choices are undeniable, well nigh perfect, and most importantly, the script is, from the standpoint of drama, as good as it gets. And then there are lapses where the narrative stalls for unaccountable reasons. That is, Ford is at the top of his craftsmanship one moment, and the next he’ll insert some ill-timed comic maneuver that falls flat, leaving no “connective tissue,” if you will, between one great section and another.

Example: the side excursion with Futterman’s attempted ambush of Ethan and Martin is marred by the odd change in tone beforehand, the comedy of Wayne throwing too much wood on the fire and tucking Marty in. It doesn’t ring true as a way that Ethan would behave, even seems to indicate he’s softening toward his traveling companion just by virtue of his joking around so much. And then it turns out he has deadly intentions, putting Marty at risk, which also seems out of character.

There are other, more famous examples, in particular the entire passage with Marty’s Comanche wife Look, which has some really tasteless slapstick alternating with the pathos. The framing story, relating the tale of Look through a letter Marty has written to Laurie, is a brilliant bit of narrative strategy, revealing extremely important things about manners and morals on the frontier, but the story within the story is just strange, shifting from making Look a figure of ridicule to a victim. At one point we’re supposed to, I guess, grieve over her death at the hands of the cavalry, and seconds later we’re given the cavalry crossing a winter stream to jaunty martial music. It simply doesn’t make sense, as if Ford was hopelessly conflicted between his love of the cavalry and the terrible thing they’ve done (destroying an encampment of Indians, mostly women and children, Look included).

Also, I'm inclined not to think Ford's alcoholism had much to do with the outcomes of any of the films you reference. (Sometimes, an alcoholic does his best work while under the influence.)


Ford’s alcoholism had everything to do with every facet of his life, just as it does with any alcoholic. It’s an affliction that warps judgment and destroys personal and professional relationships. Ford’s behavior on the set of Mr. Roberts (missing work, punching a movie star), just a few months prior to getting The Searchers before the cameras, would’ve ruined a lesser director, but he had Merian C. Cooper vouching for him and they were able to make the picture. It saved his career and gave him one of his biggest hits (from a purely box office standpoint). But the Mr. Roberts debacle was one of the worst professional trials he’d ever been through, jeopardizing his standing in Hollywood and ruining his relationship with Henry Fonda, who never spoke to him again. He knew enough not to let it happen again. Ford was very much on shaky ground when he made The Searchers, uncertain of himself and his future.

If an alcoholic does his best work under the influence, it’s in spite of being drunk, not because of, though he may claim differently. Ford was on the wagon during the filming of The Searchers, as he had been on most of his films, generally waiting until his responsibilities were completed before disappearing on his deadly benders (deadly because each one is a threat to the health of the alcoholic). But alcohol damages an artist’s greatest asset: his brain, where memory and imagination live. It has everything to do with one’s ability to use that asset to its fullest.

Thanks for a thought-provoking post and Best


Same to you.

We didn't exactly believe your story...we believed your 200 dollars.

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"It doesn't ring true as a way that Ethan would behave, even seems to indicate Ethan softening towards his travel companion"

He's supposed to be. That's what makes Ethan so interesting. He goes back and forth with Marty throughout the whole movie. He's not just a nasty a$$hole towards Marty throughout all those years of searching.


"And then it turns out he has deadly intentions, even putting Marty at risk, which seems out of character"

I never saw it like that. I just saw it as Ethan being super confident of Futterman being inept and that he would prevent Marty from being killed.


"At one point we're supposed to, I guess, grieve over her death at the hands of the cavalry, and seconds later we're given the cavalry crossing the winter stream to jaunty martial music"

That's what makes it so great. Ford turns all the traditional western myths on their head, without pandering or preaching to the audience. If he had thrown in dramatic music the sequence would lose it power IMO.

He shows what the cavalry have done and then that music plays, it's perfect contrast to what they've done and how they see themselves. In their own little world they've done no wrong. They're just going about their military duty. The Native Americans are the enemy and sometimes innocents die. There's no manipulation on how the audience are supposed to feel.

It's even more powerful because of the way Ford presented them in his cavalry trilogy. Here he presents them as immoral or stupid, as in Patrick Wayne's character.

He does the exact same thing with the fight between Marty and Charlie. They're acting like gentlemen and then they start fighting dirty, with the reverend standing by watching. It's a great piece of satire.

He does it with Ethan and Scar. Scar's supposed to be the villain and yet the worse thing Ford shows Scar do is trying to kill Ethan and Marty in an attack. Then he gives him a justification for his hatred of the white man.

Ethan on the other hand we see him he doesn't give him a back story for his justification of his hatred. His mother's been killed by them but he only let's the audience in on it by a very brief glimpse of the headstone and that's it. He doesn't seem interested in getting the audience to like him. He's an hateful person even before his family are killed. And unlike Scar, we actually see him being immoral.

Ford was destroying the traditions and myths of the western movie, which ironcially he helped create, and he blurs everything superbly and just presents the characters with flaws and a contradictory nature. There's no preaching or pretensions about it.




What the hell is a gigawatt?!

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Thank you, Eric, for responding. The Searchers is one of those movies that plays a little different for me every time I watch it. Sometimes I'm drawn in, can ignore the flaws, focus on the hard-driving narrative trajectory (i.e. Ethan Edwards as King Kong searching for his missing niece so that he can kill her!). A bit of hyberbole there but I think of Kong whenever I see Merian Cooper's name in the credits of anything (it's really weird to see John Ford's credit on Mighty Joe Young, of which I believe he was co-producer).

Yet there are times when male Alpha Ethan Edwards recedes a bit and his nephew Martin seems the more heroic of the two even as he's stuck in Beta male mode for most of the film. Director Ford rallies also for Hank Worden's Old Mose,--a character for people with certain tastes, not for everyone--and gets a fe scenes. John Qualen recedes after the Comanche read. We lose Harry Carey, Jr. altogether. Then Ken Curtis comes along for a while like a Mad magazine parody of a western seducer, even sings a song; and Ford lets the camera linger on his plain face for longer than usual, as he seems to enjoy the sheer surreal pleasure, the juxtaposition of Curtis,--from everyone--as an end in itself, independent of the story . But this is John Ford at his best, this is the John Ford Orson Welles names as his top three directors. Film critic Andrew Sarris put it nicely when he said that one can tell when Ford takes a few moments out of a film just for himself, just for his art; an art that only John Ford can truly get to the heart of.

I can remember reading Sarris on Ford, and he's very sharp on the Great Man, and his mentioning this in one of his pieces on Ford. He talked about (and I paraphrase) the director's savoring of the moment; a scene, a face, a shadow, a bird, a homeless, friendless dog following a wagon train. As I've grown older I come to appreciate this John Ford. One of the earliest films of his where this becomes apparent (or one of the earliest I've seen) is the 1936 The Prisoner Of Shark Island, a film I swear he made as much to photograph the Dry Tortuga prison, its glistening cannonballs, as to tell the true story of Dr. Samuel Mudd. By the latter part of the movie ths prison had become a character all by itself, and I had mixed feelings about leaving it at the end. I see more of Ford the man in this film than in his more self-consciously artistic and Expressionistic The Informer, but he was shooting for the moon when he made that one. Despite its being set in Ireland during its time of Troubles, it strikes me as less personal than the post-Civil War film he made just a year later, during the making of which he let his hair down a little and ingulged himself.

As to Stagecoach, that one was a perfect melding of director and film. It was John Ford all the way. He was also lucky when he made it. Gary Cooper was the first choice (or so they say) for the Ringo Kid, but he was either too busy or too pricey. Then Lloyd Nolan's name came up. I think that was a joke, though. I've read several versions of how John Wayne got cast as the male lead (second billed, no less, after Claire Trevor) in Stagecoach, and the most credible account I've heard is that Ford, still looking around for the right guy to play Ringo, asked Wayne whom he regarded as the best actor in Hollywood, and Wayne replied "Lloyd Nolan". My sense is that Ford never wanted any actor other than old buddy Duke Wayne, then languishing (or, depending on the point of view prospering) in the highly popular "Three Mesquiteers" series of B westerns for Republic. Wayne had no mainstream name recogition at the time the film was made, yet looking at it now, it seems almost taolired made for Wayne, especially his electrifying first appearance. That scene, in which his mere presence literally brings the eponymous stagecoach to a halt, often shown in movies about the history of American films, westerns or John Wayne, rather plays as if it was Wayne's film debut. Not by a long shot. He'd been appearing in movies for over a decade by that time, but it may as well be his film debut. John Ford shot it that way. It was the Moment. The moment Wayne began his rise to first rank stardom (even as he had to wait another decade for another director to give him a vehicle, Red River, that kicked him up a notch higher, to superstardom).

To compare Stagecoach to The Searchers might make for an interesting essay or even monograph, though I personally think that Liberty Valance would be a more fitting "bookend" for Stagecoach if one wanted to compare Stagecoach to another Ford-Wayne collaboration. It even has some of the same cast members. One Ford regular who wasn't in the earlier film, Ward Bond, is prominently featured in the later one. No, The Searchers can't match the technical excellence of the perfect Stagecoach, though it has scenes of great beauty and poignance that are as grand as anything Ford had ever done. It's the movie as a whole that feels a little loose, like a suit that doesn't quite fit. Great material but not tailor-made. Ford had proved on many occasions that he was as good a "tailor: as any director in Hollywood, but as much as alcohol was a factor, maybe he deliberately didn't want the film to look or feel that way. In other words, he wanted it to ramble as it did; shifting its mood, its focus, even its theme, as it rolled along, to the point where the unsophisticated viewer, who might think Ethan is an "Indian hater" would learn later on that he isn't. It's the Comanches he hates, and especially the ones that killed his kinfolk. He had no trouble with Martin taking an Indian wife. There were times when he spoke like a man with a knowledge of Native American folklore, of their customs. One of the things that made Ethan so formidable was that he knew the Indians so well; so well that he was almost a blood brother. He knew the "Indian" from the inside out. You can see it in the film. Ford doesn't push it, but it's there. What I think is also there is that The Searchers isn't about race. The topic figures in the movie, is a major plot point; but while the issue of race comes up several times, I don't think that this is What It's About. It's a character study, a meditation on human nature, on how people react to change, whether tragic or comedic; and; and as always with Ford, the issue of family, of family ties, is a major one in the film. When it's over, Ethan severs his ties. Even as he's saved his niece rather than killed her, as he'd promised he would, he couldn't return to the family, as he'd become as bad as the Comanches he so despised, so rather than seek redemption within the family, he chose to leave it instead.

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The Searchers can play very differently for me each time I watch it. I don’t remember much from my most recent viewing—June of last year—probably because the time before that, back in December 2010, I was devastated by it. Something was just right about my psyche and the conditions under which I was viewing it, not sure what, but that 2010 screening just knocked me on my haunches.

I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve seen it in the past 50 or so years, but I’ve had a broad range of reactions to it, from mild dismissal to praying at the altar of “Ford, Ford, and Ford.” When I was working on the above mentioned, never finished thesis, I probably watched it ten times, at the very least, in the space of six months, never mind the other times I’ve seen it before that, and after. That creates a certain familiarity with the work that, in itself, can provoke the kind of emotional response I had in ’10 to scenes like Ethan’s discovery of the burning homestead and Martha’s body. Turned me into a puddle. John Wayne is just magnificent in that scene.

But other times, my cooler, analytical side has prevailed, and scenes that I’ve never liked rub me the wrong way once again. Not as much as they used to, mind you; that intimate familiarity I have with the film (shared by only a couple handfuls of other classic era works, such as...drumroll...Merian C. Cooper’s King Kong ) means that I have accepted its flaws as very specific, Fordian flaws. They have corollaries throughout Ford’s oeuvre, all of them possessing varying degrees of effectiveness (indeed, of Ford-ness), and even when it’s something I just don’t think works, such as the trap Ethan sets for Futterman or the dismal comedy with poor Look, it doesn’t ruin the film for me. There are some Ford films that have disappointed me so much, I can’t watch them again. Two Rode Together, Sergeant Rutledge, Cheyenne Autumn, several others—these are films in which the ratio of good scenes to bad moves them into the category of “Been There, Seen That.”

But something else The Searchers has going for it, which is summed up in your subject line quote of Orson Welles, is this: even a flawed Ford movie outclasses the majority of movies from other filmmakers. The elegance—and eloquence—of his compositions, the Fordian nuances in scenes such as Ward Bond’s entrance into the film, with its dance of characters and controlled chaos of voices, right on up to Ethan kissing Martha on the forehead before they leave to hunt Comanches...The beauty and mastery he sustains in that single, five minute sequence, is something I never tire of watching.

I’ll have to catch The Prisoner of Shark Island some time, but I know what you mean concerning Sarris’ take on Ford and his ability to savor the moment. His years in silent cinema fed that particular talent, I think. The Stagecoach DVD I was telling you about has one of Ford’s earliest movies on it, a Harry Carey Western from 1917, and I can tell you that that grasp he had of visual depth and the telling composition was already present at the beginning.

Finally, RE The Searchers and Race: I think you’re right. The period of the Texas Indian War in which the film is set was a time period (spanning four decades of the 1800s) when there was plenty of cultural hatred to go around, on both sides, but it wasn’t necessarily founded in racial distinctions (which is why I was careful to label Ethan as prejudiced, rather than racist). It was two very different ways of life that were clashing in the Comancheria, both of them founded in ancient practices, the eventual victor determined largely by technology. And I think John Ford and his film understand that period quite a bit better than we moderns do. As many times as I had seen the film, I was just coming around to making this realization when it moved me so much in 2010. In many ways it’s a film that can’t be truly appreciated until you can look beyond the prism of race that infuses contemporary thought.

Oh, and yes—Ken Curtis is one of the things in The Searchers I’ve come to love, though he seemed strange to me at first. You know he was Ford’s son-in-law, don’t you?

We didn't exactly believe your story...we believed your 200 dollars.

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Eric,

I, for one, will sign that post -- in its entirety. . . Thanks much!

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A death in the family threw me off from responding to you, Eric, and I apologize. My focus changed completely and I was busy doing other things than thinking about the IMDB.

John Ford's aiming for prestige can wear on me. It's there in The Grapes Of Wrath but it doesn't hurt the movie much. It's also there very much in his Oscar winning best picture How Green Was My Valley, which I loved when I was a child, find unwatchable now. Once so impressive, for me it plays like a Welsh Mrs Miniver, is too much of its time in style and sensibility to move me anymore. I feel the same about Wyler's The Best Years Of Our Lives, but that's another story, another post for another time.

Ford almost did it again with the lugubrious. heavier than lead 1947 The Fugitive, and yet somehow his sincerity shines through, and the actors help it along. Gabriel Figueroa's photography gives the film a glow that I actually like. Many critics didn't. James Agee found the film artsy, albeit deeply felt. I think it's better than that, and also a rare case of John Ford's Roman Catholicism actually working in favor of a film instead of agin' it (I'm probably going to take a few hits for saying this,--it's not meant as anti-Catholic--Ford just didn't have the right personality to make a religious film).

Later on, with Sergeant Rutledge, which I've seen from start to finish, and Cheyenne Autumn, which I haven't, Ford seemed to be losing his wits. I think he did the best with what he had to work with in the case of the former film, quite daring for a mainstream Hollywood picture, even more so for a western, even for a director with as much prestige as Ford. He didn't have to get into the black soldiers in the western cavalry business, did so because he wanted to. For that, I admire him as a person. He could have continued in the vein of The Quiet Man, Long Gray Line, The Rising Of the Moon and The Last Hurrah and no one would have thought the worse of him for doing so. Those kinds of movies were in his "comfort zone".

More than most aging directors, John Ford fought to remain as active and modern as he could be while at the same time staying true to himself, to who he really was. A late fruit of this effort is The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, a movie which, like The Searchers, is easy to knock,--"why black and white instead of color", some have asked, or "why use well into middle age actors to play young men?", and, as with Stagecoach, "why let the movie look like a B half the time?". Ford had his reasons in every and every case, and I think he made the right decisions with Liberty Valance.

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I agree, even though this is an old post. I've watched it probably 3 full times over the years and it's very beautiful, but as a story it doesn't do much for me. And the tone is incredibly silly, but that I don't mind so much. It's just the story and the characters that are not that interesting.

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[deleted]

Though it's pointless to respond to trolls, actually 'education' is exactly what is required for real appreciation of anything.

Big difference between that and having a mere visceral reaction to something. If that's all one wants, sex, drugs & rock n roll are always good bets. Violence works too.

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When I was 10 years old I saw "Citizen Kane" for the first time and thought it was so-so. Didn't understand what the big deal was, but as I got older and was told about how it transformed cinema and created a language on its own, took symbols and themes that my 10 year old mind didn't comprehend, I understood and appreciated the movie. "Citizen Kane" is not a movie I return to as others, yet I appreciate it.

I saw this movie when I was real young and thought it was racist and horrible, and always hated John Wayne because his real self was not much different than the character he played, but as many of my Indian friends tend to list this as one of their favorite movies, I watched it again, and understand why I liked it.

I would like to see it remade in which the Indians are not caricatures but real people. Now, if you've read the analyses of this movie, you should understand why it's loved by many. If you haven't, rent the movie and watch the special documentaries that are made on this movie to get a sense of what it means to people and why it's loved so much.

Technically it is amazing, but that is John Ford. John Wayne's acting is good. The story is brilliant in that, for its time, it explored prejudices that very few films were exploring. There were very few movies that gave sympathy to the mix-race Indian. It tells a story over about ten years period with ease.

It was a story about America that still isn't learned today. We are a part of this melting pot of mixed races and ethnicities, very few of us are singularly raced, yet we tend to hate whatever culture is accepted to be hated. So, we can all be a part of that melting pot and allow our people to still be a part of our world even though they spend time among another group, or we can be like Ethan and ride away as the door closes behind us and the rest of the world join in as a group and not individuals.

I think it mostly talks about race and the way we prejudice others, even when they're mixed race people. It is also an evolution of John Ford movies where he shows the cowboys and the cavalry as heroes, and then in this movie, the ultimate cowboy "The Duke" is a horrible *beep* human being, and the cavalry doesn't mind slaughtering other people.

The problem I do have with this movie is the portrayal of the Indians. The reason why I'd like to see this movie updated, where the Indians are seeing as human beings and not just talked about from the white perspective. Anyway, I'm writing this fast and am not rereading for error, so I apologize if things don't make sense or there are grammaticals and misspellings.

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Your post is fine as it is. A few contrarian points, however:

If The Searchers were re-made the way you suggest, it, simply, wouldn't be The Searchers. And, there have already been several films made in this way since The Searchers (and not very good, IMO). BTW, I think Scar is just as well-drawn a character as is Ethan -- which is central to the film's impact and purpose.

"The reason why I'd like to see this movie updated, where the Indians are seeing as human beings and not just talked about from the white perspective."

Every drama must have a point of view. This one's from the European point of view. As mentioned above, there have been many since portraying events from an Indian's perspective. None can hold a candle to this one, again, imo.

"I think it mostly talks about race and the way we perceive others ..."

I don't think so at all, though race plays a tangential part in it. It's about love and hate of our fellow man and that both exist in both white and Indian alike. The film is downright Shakespeaerian in this respect.

"It was a story about America that still isn't learned today."

It's a story about humanity (not America alone) "that still isn't learned today" . . . and, sadly, probably never will be -- at least, not in our lifetimes.

"... we can be like Ethan and ride away as the door closes behind us and the rest of the world join in as a group and not individuals."

But, don't forget the "individual" (Ethan) made it happen, not "the group". No Ethan -- no community reunion. Ethan, the individual, is the essential element to the groups' happiness and future success.

As in our society today (race obsessed), you are, I think, too hung-up on "racism" and the bad wrap America has suffered for her part in it (endlessly cultivated by the media, politicians, and academia).

Great film. One of the best ever.


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Fair question.

For me the answer that it is about family and that it is extremely intense.

A man's primary duty (to his family) is to provide and to protect.

The revenge/rescue plot of this film goes directly to that.

This film powerfully arouses those male instincts, and John Wayne embodies them in the film with unforgettable intensity.

This may be the best American film, and Wayne not even getting nominated for an Oscar was a terrible injustice, exposing the Academy Awards for being shallowly judged.

See my review, posted just yesterday.

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I appreciate your reply... I think you are far more straightforward than most of the replies here. That said, I could not agree less with most of your points.

Many people do put 'family' ahead of pretty much everything else. It's part of the whole culture of honour deal that many people, all over the world, identify with.

And I believe that many people who dig this movie, down deep, like it for the same reason people like The Godfather. Even if the guy is downright evil, he's following a 'code'. And I happen to think that code is self-indulgent *beep* It's the code that makes people wax nostalgic for a time when men fought 'duels'.

In any case, all psychology aside, my original complaints have nothing to do with that: I just think the dialog is laughable, the jewish indians are silly and on and on. It just doesn't hold up the way other movies do.

I'll leave you with this thought: I always go on about how beautiful I thought Audrey Hepburn was. And my kid said something to me one day recently: "Oh, yeah, she was in all those movies where she was with an old guy. Creepy!" And I went back and watched 'Love In The Afternoon'... a movie I thought was harmless when I was a kid. But ya know, she's right: CREEPY. Back in the 50's it was -normal- to have a 20 year old girl with a 55 year old make lead. Humphrey Bogart, William Holden, Gregory Peck. Cary Grant. Over and over she's with men old enough to be her father or even grandfather. Times change. Some things we can overlook. But to -me- The Searchers is just unwatchable now. No matter what people say about it's 'critique' it glorifies a part of the American mythos that does not withstand scrutiny and no longer should be furthered. Beautiful cinematography notwithstanding.

YMMV of course.

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I understand what you're saying -- and, to each his own, I guess. Two thoughts, however:

1) Fundamentally, what is so "creepy" about an older man/woman finding a life-long happiness with a younger man/woman if both parties desire it and know the pitfalls and limitations to come? Not forgetting, in addition, that there are spiritual aspects, perhaps the most important, to a committed relationship as well as physical. And, aren't these individual judgements to be made by the parties in question?

2) "Many people do put 'family' ahead of pretty much everything else. It's part of the whole culture of honour deal that many people, all over the world, deal with."

Interesting point . . . but what is "honor"? I think it's "a token of esteem paid to worth; as a mark of respect". In this case, and almost everywhere, the family is the linchpin of society. Generally, it's the most valued part of a society's survival (especially in 'the wolderness', so to speak). It's the future. Eliminate the family as cornerstone -- what's to take its place? Something must or the culture will pass away, taking with it its history, its moral code, its laws, and its traditions. . . We don't have to like some societies' senses of honor.

Thought provoking post. Thanks

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"Eliminate the family as cornerstone -- what's to take its place?"

Oh that's an easy one: the state. That's -the- essential shift that turns a bunch of clans into a nation: loyalty to the society vs. loyalty to one's family.

It's not a 'replacement', it's a change in priority. You're willing to let the state handle some things for you... even deeply personal things... in exchange for peace and quiet.

The turning point in the 'old west' is this: you have a problem with somebody, even your own sister getting kidnapped and... instead of reaching for a gun or putting together your own posse... you dial the police and let -them- handle it, for better or worse. You outsource justice. Not very cinematic, but -that- is civilisation in one sentence.

Look at every conflict in the world: it's people taking the law into their own hands.

Westerns are so popular because we all get screwed and we all dream how cool it would be to take the law into our own hands. Or we think we're gettin' screwed by that damned BLM! Even if we're wrong? If our motivations were pure (he raped my sister!, the Pinkertons stole my land!) we kinda feel justified. The Old West ended the day that some guy was hanged for shooting some other guy who he thought had raped his sister. And to his complete surprise, the town was fine with it.

Or maybe the other guy really -did- rape his sister, he called the police and they mishandled things. But instead of getting his gun or calling his buddies to administer some 'frontier justice', he slumps back in his chair, has 4-5 beers and somehow learns to live with it. And again, life moves on.

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This leads to many other questions. For instance:

Do we become more civilized if we turn over the primacy of family and self- interest to "the state"?

I would answer, "no". But, I'm used to living in a free country (a little nervous about that right now). So, civilization means that the state is but an instrument of the family (or, the individual if you prefer), as the Founders did. When the state replaces the family (individual), you get the Soviet Union -- or some facsimile of same.

Laws do replace individual initiative for certain actions (with the consent of the family or individual, it shall have been hoped!). You gave examples for those actions. But, remember, even in a society which sees itself as a "just" one, its laws are only an attempt at providing justice for all. They (the laws) don't always produce the desired outcomes. And, the family, as the linchpin, must certify necessary changes. Replacing the family with the state (an elite few) generally produces a short-lived cultural outcome, including a disregard for spiritual beliefs, tradition, individual initiative, etc., etc. History provides us many (too many) examples of this.

Thanks and Best

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"Look at every conflict in the world: it's people taking the law into their own hands."

I might post on this movie soon, but I had to step in to say this is just self-evidently wrong. The big conflicts and the ones which cause the most deaths are fought between governments. It is organized violence directed by the state, either against another state (wars) or some segment of their own people (genocides) that have been the great slaughters of history.

Your point about raping your sister rests on a legal system that can and does administer justice.

Was there such a legal system on the frontier?

Your criticism of frontier justice might be better directed at The Godfather which begins with just this sort of personal extra-legal justice being administered by the criminal underworld. It is interesting how few who watch The Godfather remark about where this would be bound to lead.


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I regret that sentence. It's too broad... although I could argue the point.

But the whole idea of 'frontier justice' is at least -partly- a choice. First off, you could decide to not move to Texas. :D But one also has a choice on how to respond to the situation.

The Godfather is like Ethan in that it's a question of retribution being basically the same thing as justice. Another type of person could've spent all those years doing something besides trying to get revenge. Without revenge, you got no movie.

The whole point of so -many- of these movies is that revenge is somehow a noble motive. Even if the guy is evil, hey... he got screwed so he should get even somehow. And the audience is supposed to empathise... "Yeah, that's how -I- would feel. Go get 'em, Ethan." Or Michael Corleone. Or Walter White. You're not a man if you -don't- try to get even.

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mail-2217

"20 year old girl with a 55 year old male lead. Humphrey Bogart, William Holden, Gregory Peck, Cary Grant. Over and over she's with men old enough to be her father or even grandfather."

You choose some odd examples. Bogart and Grant were old enough to be her father, but not her grandfather. But Holden was only 11 years older than Hepburn, and Peck only 13 years older. I think many find Roman Holiday one of the most appealing romances, and I can't say there is anything "creepy" about it at all. You are really going to limit casting if you consider an actor in his mid-thirties too old to play the romantic lead opposite an actress in her mid-twenties.

If Peck is considered too old and therefore creepy for Hepburn, it makes most of the old romantic films like Gone with the Wind and Casablanca also creepy as romantic films despite their long-term popularity.

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You can argue the details, but the point remains. The world has changed. A 55 year old guy courting a 20 year old now has a creep factor. As do many of the common tropes of westerns.

I look at The Searchers and the way they depict blacks, indians, women looks merely dated and comical to me. But it's going to be flat out unwatchable for an increasing number of people... in spite of its obvious strengths.

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Two points:

1) You may be right that "the world has changed". I suppose it's always changing. And, change, it should be remembered, doesn't always represent progress (E.g., Germany changed in 1933). For me, at least, the change you forecast about The Searchers -- that it will become "unwatchable" because of its depiction of attitudes toward race (1880's or 1950's) exclusively -- represents a "bad" change given, as you say, the film's "obvious strengths". If that becomes the case, too bad for our culture. You know, something like single-issue voting or fanaticism generally. Obsessions (we are, it seems, obsessed about race, ethnicity, etc. today) about single-issues produce very little "good" in the long-run for any society as a whole.

2) I doubt the "creep factor" would occur to the May/September couple themselves as it may to unrelated others like yourself. And, in the final analysis -- it's really none of our business anyway. Is it? In the 50's, which you appear to consider now to be quaint, such comments were applied to inter-racial couples in the same way you apply them to inter-age (if that's a word?) couples. Were those observations about the appearance of black/white couples fundamentally different than yours about inter-age (there I used it again) couples?

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09OCT2014 - I've just watched this for the first time. I had it on my 'must watch classics' list. I agree with you mail-2217 I didn't get what all the fuss is/was about. I enjoyed it to a point but for me it was a 2.5 - 3 out of 5 rated film (at best). An average film. It is beautifully shot and looks great in HD. I liked all the hints and suggestive parts of the film, but it feels pretty flat. There is no suspense. In 1956 perhaps it was a big deal for John Wayne to play this type of character and from reading trivia it was his favourite role that he played. It is also considered by many to be John Ford's best film/western. But I found it to be just ok.

"Just because you break into people's homes doesn't mean you need to look like a fu**ing burglar!"

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I disagree entirely, although it's refreshing to read a thoughtful and well-articulated post about something somebody dislikes. Give it another try, though. I may just work on you second time around.

NOW TARZAN MAKE WAR!

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I totally agree with you, a very overrated movie. long, dumb, and overblown acting.

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Yeah . . . so's that Hamlet thing! Well, to each his own, I suppose.

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Agree, OP was right on the money. This may have been considered great in its day, but really its just another cliché, corny John Wayne Western.

The fact that many modern day cinema aficionados still rave about 'The Searchers' is sort of a joke. Are we meant to forgive the overt racism, and the hammed up, corny, badly-dated dialogue? Just because the film was from 1956?

The only positive in this film was the cinematography of John Ford. The statuesque landscapes of Monument Valley were the attraction.

I'll take Punctuality

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