MovieChat Forums > The Searchers (1956) Discussion > Can I Ask: Why Do People -Like- This So ...

Can I Ask: Why Do People -Like- This So Much?


Not a troll post... I -sincerely- want to try and understand why so many people educated people talk about this movie with such reverence.

I consider myself a fairly savvy film lover. If a movie is considered a 'classic' I make a sincere effort to try to 'get it'... even if there's no visceral appeal. And most of the time, I can at least -see- what all the fuss is about.

But this is my 3rd shot in 20 years at this thing and frankly? It just strikes me as dated, hammy and almost a caricature. I love 'classic' movies as much as the next guy... and I understand that 'westerns' are something of a world of their own, but jeeez. Most of these characters are like cartoon characters.

I've read just dozens of critical essays talking about the 'multi-layered depth' of this things and all the hidden meanings but at the end of the day? I think it's the Emperor's New Clothes.

It seems to me that it simply fed into the prejudices of moviegoers in 1956 and is nowhere near the equal of movies from that era.

OK... what am I missing. If you just like Westerns as a guilty pleasure? Or it has great memories of childhood? Or you just think John Wayne is cool Fine. I've got dozens of movies like that---but I don't go on about how 'great' they were. I just -liked- 'em.

SO: What are all these 'depths of greatness'?

TIA,

---JC

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David Traversa
Mail-2217. I never saw this movie, I was listening the Gabfest podcast on Slate Magazine and they happened to talk about this film exactly on the terms you mentioned others talked about it and out of curiosity I came to this page and same as you, every time I read "The best Film Ever Made" I tremble, there is not such a thing as "The Best Film Ever Made", there are many excellent films and one may prefer this or that (and the same goes for "The Most Beautiful Woman in the World").

Sheer nonsense.

I also read same kind of praise recently for "The Deer Hunter", well, that one I saw and I wanted TO SCREAM out of boredom!!!
But we all have different backgrounds, different education, etc. so it's impossible to like the same things, so relax and forget about what "others think", do your thing, watch the movies you like, read the books you prefer and just follow your own yellow brick road.
Have a nice day!

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I just watched it for the first time; I love Westerns and love John Ford, and I don't get it either.

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Same here.
The cinematography is great, but I think the acting is quite horrible and the film as a whole doesn't affect me really. The story seems quite simple to me, nothing to be compared to Shakespeare or lifted to Himalayan heights (not that it needs that). Why it would get essays written about it, is a mystery to me.

Now I love westerns, but this one comes across as really dated compared to e.g. High Noon or The Gunfighter. Or even other Ford westerns like My darling Clementine.

Anyway, didn't think it was the worst either, and I respect other people's opinion about it, just giving my humble opinion.

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Fair enough. Two points:

1) You are entitled to your opinion and no need of apologizing for them.

2) "Why it would get essays written about it, is a mystery to me."

Have you tried reading the essays?

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1) Thanks, man

2) That'll be the day

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Okay, but . . . what does Buddy Holly gotta do with it?

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Lol

... or John Wayne in the Searchers. But I guess you already knew that ;)

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"Put an amen to it!"






KIAI ... please.

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[deleted]

So I just watched the Searchers today for my first time and I gotta say that I agree with you, I think Big Jake is a 5 times better movie, while I liked the Searchers I just felt there was big time over acting, continuity problems and John Wayne played a character that was so weird for him to play it just came across as a sore thumb. I found myself saying that I didn't think people would react certain ways back then like some people did in that movie. I will probably watch it a few more times in my lifetime but Big Jake and many other westerns will get repeat viewings before this one will lol

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What one must remember about John Ford is his almost total disregard for realism; his films were preoccupied with interrogating the myths associated with the old west, not with providing an accurate picture of history. I see the original poster is a big fan of "The Quiet Man", but doesn't like "The Searchers" because he finds the characters implausible. But Ford, despite knowing the real Ireland very well indeed, still gives us a fantasy Ireland - and yet his filmic world is still rich enough to contain a very nuanced interrogation of the standard Oirish myth (one example: Ward Bond's priest is not to be trusted in this film). Ford actually knew Wyatt Earp, yet his masterpiece "My Darling Clementine" portrays the OK Corral shootout as an heroic action with Earp as its all-conquering hero; when, in fact, Earp was a thief and the OK Corral was an ambush which he planned as such. But Ford is such a brilliant filmmaker that we see very nuanced critiques of Earp's "myth" in the film.
Now, to "The Searchers" - the second greatest American film ever made. Ford himself called in "a psychological epic". Spanning 14 years (remember Ethan Edwards spends seven years wandering the desert before turning up at his brother's home, and a further seven years searching for...what exactly? For Debbie, yes; but also for himself). The search is all about Ethan coming to realise, contra the words of the song "The Searchers" - "A man will search his heart and soul, go searching way out there" - it is an internal search he is on, a coming to know his hatred of the Other (Scar, embodying everything Ethan hates about himself) will get him nowhere. By the way, I don't think Ethan has ever acted on his love for Martha (as another poster suggested). Ethan wants to kill Scar primarily for raping Martha. His wandering in the desert for seven years was spurred by his complete obsessive desire for her.

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Thanks. I could sign that.

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As the o/p...

I'm a big fan of 'The Quiet Man', in spite of all its exaggerations, because it's unpretentious; in the spirit of 'Captain Blood' or even 'It's A Wonderful Life.' It doesn't take itself too seriously. And John Wayne's bad acting actually fits with his character being a fish out of water.

As I've thought on this more and more, I dislike 'The Searchers' because it takes itself -so- seriously, so I have no patience with all the same flaws. And again, it's jarring to me because it was made in the mid fifties and its hamminess, misogyny and racism were way past their sell-by-date. IOW: those things, that I kinda accept as being part of the 30's-40's are jarring to me by the Brando era.

I understand all the 'Shakespearean Themes', but lofty aspirations do not make up for crummy (and dated) execution.

'The Quiet Man' strikes me as 'quaint' and silly... inoffensive.

If The Searchers wasn't -trying- so hard to be 'deep' I'd be far less harsh.

One last thing: I was watching The Good, The Bad & The Ugly the other night. And I -know- the reason I like it so much is because I clearly remember seeing it as a kid on TV. 50 years later, I -still- dig it... even though I now understand why my kids roll their eyes. Objectively, it's got some real laughers in there. I still enjoy it, but I don't try to make it out to be some 'deep exploration of blah, blah, blah...'

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I liked this movie because John Ford wasn't afraid to let us know how people felt about hate. What hate can do to you. How you bigotries become what you hold dear, when you lose all hope. And without forgiveness we are all savages.

she loved poetry and romance, but she hit the glass ceiling at birth

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Well, one of the reasons I love it so much is the usage of humor in off-setting the grim nature of the rest of the storyline. For example: you've got to love Ward Bond's character, the Rev. Captain Clayton, when he tells Patrick Wayne (playing young Lt. Greenhill) that "you'd better read my mind, because I don't aim to raise...two hollers" about mounting up for the final charge.

Not only does Clayton break that promise; he also _misspells_ the word.

"Mount! MOUNT! M-O-O-N-T, mount!"

X-D

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You are entitled to your opinion.
But my love for "The Searchers" goes far beyond the story per say. It's a cinematic orgy of sweeping vistas at Monument Valley, just like the sweeping images of San Francisco in "Vertigo".
Vistavision was what allowed John Ford and Hitchcock to visually entice us into the old west and new west in the 50's. The master prints need no explanation.......but once you feel it there's no turning back.
There are only a few films i put on my top lists.
Not all are in Vistavision, but all cinematography giants.

The Searchers
Vertigo
Zulu
Witness
2001:A Space Oddity
Dances with Wolves
Rebel without a Cause
It's a Mad, Mad, Mad World

These films are only seen by me in HDTV widescreen with enhanced sound uncut and commercial free and in many cases the Director's cut. The key is acquiring the master print like "Zulu".
I watch many "movies" that are comedic, drama driven, and entertaining........but only a few of them are "film" worthy. "The Searchers" is one of them.

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What I am frustrated with is the criticism of John Ford for frequent comic interludes.

In my life, as a child, adolescent, and adult, there was always at least one person known to the family or group I was associated with who was known as a comic stereotype. Sometimes it was me. There was an individual who drank too much, or one who was too quick to anger (me), or someone who could not get his (or her) mind off of sex. Also, someone would always find a smart ass remark to make out of a tense or even dangerous situation. Often these remarks would not be made at the time because of the intense need for action, but would come up later when recounting the event. Obviously, a movie allows more flexibility.

The sometimes trite or cliché humor that John Ford uses actually strikes me as realistic.

Hell, Pulp Fiction and Kill Bill are lionized by modern audiences for finding humor and therefor glorifying grotesque violence that would have caused my parents to walk out of the movie.

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I am surprised it is so highly rated in light of the very lengthy Goofs section. How could John Ford be so careless?

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Back in 1956, when the movie was released, no one gave any thought whatsoever to it being released in about 25-30 years on a medium called VHS tape (and later DVD)to be watched again and again for the purposes of catching every minute little detail that could be pointed out as a a "mistake."

Some of the "goofs" aren't goofs at all, such as the car that is supposedly seen in the distance in the cavalry crossing in the winter. I've watched it over and over, even with a video having an arrow pointing to the car WAY off in the distance, and you STILL can't make out WHAT it is, let alone that alone it's that it's a car...

There has NEVER been a movie made that is free of goofs, Anachronisms, continuity errors, geography issues, historical problems, and the like. Ford wasn't a stickler for exact dates and verbatim quotes.

That being said, people LOVE to troll IMDb and pick on iconic movies, directors, and actors (not just this one, Ford, nor Wayne), it makes the feel somehow superior, and I get that, but in the end, in doesn't matter, as it rarely gets in the way of good story telling, unless the errors are so painfully out of place that it's just TOO much!!

A lot of these a nit-picky kind of things that 1. Aren't really goofs, and 2. Unless you're watching the film LOOKING for things to pick over, you wouldn't notice them.

Lastly, and this is a HUGE issue for not only me, but for most people who watch movies made before last year...you simply cannot view history through today's eyes. It not only applies to movie making. People want to do it with how people lived, politics, and almost every aspect of human life, but you simply can't.

You also have to remember that it's a movie, and some people try to tear down any and everything they can, as they have no life. It sounds far fetched, but it's true. THEY have no life, so they want everyone else to be as unhappy as they are.

I don't act...I react. John Wayne

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A valid and fair opinion, but I believe that if the producers hire a continuity person and a history advisor they should get their money's worth.

You are right that most people wouldn't notice many of the goofs listed for this film, but some--like it's daylight in this view, it's dusk in this view (Ed Wood, Jr. was notorious for these, only worse, mixing day and night)--I believe would jar an audience, and I'm surprised that a director like John Ford would miss it or couldn't care less about it. Even worse is seeing production equipment and crew in the released cut--a terrible letdown when one is engrossed in a film.

When I'm jarred by such sloppy production, I rate a film lower even though it has a good story and other redeeming qualities.

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I tend to agree, but as for the daylight vs dark...this has to do with Marty and Mose being behind a log in shade...it's a different story.

There are a couple of issues of lighting having to do with filters (nighttime being shot in the daylight through filters and lenses), and some continuity shots, but otherwise, it's great film!

I respect your feelings and opinions, though!

I don't act...I react. John Wayne

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Like bari said all films have goofs.Even ones considered the greatest of all time.But again,there's many listed on here that aren't goofs.I've tried to correct them but funny thing about IMDB they happily put on goofs,trivia or quotes seemingly wthout checking at times but you try and correct them and it almost never happens.

For instance there's a goof on there which makes out that Laurie has been sent two letters in one year because of Lars dialogue to Charlie "Two letters in one year by golly" and then this is contradicted later when Laurie tells Marty he only sent her one in five years.This is beyond stupid.What Lars is saying to Charlie is that it's the second letter the family have received in one year.One letter from Futterman and then one from Marty.I've tried to change some of them but no luck.


- - -
Fill your hand you son of a bitch!

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