MovieChat Forums > Picnic Discussion > Was Holden Too Old?

Was Holden Too Old?

posted 18 years ago by tmojoman
75 replies | jump to latest

The word was that William Holden was too old to play the character of Hal Carter in "Picnic". Some of the reviewers say about ten years too old. I really don't think he was that old for the part. He even says in the beginning to the grandmother character that he went to college with Robertson's character, "...some time ago."

The only thing creepy was the fact that he accompanied Millie to the picnic, you could assume as a 'date'. That was a bit odd as Holden could have been her father. Other than that, I thought he was excellent in the role, being a bit unsure of himself was a part that he never played too often.

"No escaping...from those haunting...empty words..."-1995.

[–] gribfritz2 13 years ago

Yes. Took me right out of the movie. Knowing nothing of the plot, I assumed he was going to be the love interest for the mother at first! Then he starts saying he went to college with someone who is dating the daughter and I was like WTF! Were you the professor then? Then he goes to the picnic with the 16-yr old character who looks like she could pass for 13 and it was about as creepy as it gets.

Ironically, in Network, Holden is up to his old tricks again; getting busy with younger women. He must have an awesome agent.

[–] bradford-1 13 years ago

I haven't read the play, but there's nothing in the movie that suggests Hal and Alan are supposed to be roughly the same age, only that they went to college together. Hal's early life was obviously hardscrabble with at least one term in reform school. He may have failed some grades and had to repeat them. There's nothing that says he was a college freshman at 17 or 18; he may have started at 20 or 21. Anyway, riding the rails and working at hard physical labor would obviously age you faster than practicing your golf swing every morning.
"May I bone your kipper, Mademoiselle?"

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] elisedfr 13 years ago

The way the movie puts it, I definitely don't think Holden looks too old for his part. We never actually know how old he's supposed to be - sure, there's his college roomate, who's played by a very boyish Cliff Robertson. But then nothing implies they have the same age, or went to the same classes: they get to know each other well because they shared quarters. If I recall, Hal even calls Alan "kid".

Besides, the essential part of the character, to me, is that he's a man who has lived a lot. He has known many different kinds of experiments , some pretty rough and they have left their mark on him. And now, he feels the eagerness to settle down, to find some peaceful place, to work at something. I don't think this section of the plot would be as convinving if Hal was a very young lad. His physical strengh, tanned complexion and marked face also put emphasis on his disturbing effect on the small community. Indeed, he appears as the only manly and strong guy around, still young enough to attract the girls, and old enough to be a charismatic stranger, among a crowd of supporting actors that is divided between the juvenile -like the little newspaper man, everyone mocks, or frail and proper looking Robertson- and the middle-aged: Howard, a lovable old bachelor, and Alan's old father. His desenchantment with the world, and need to find someone to believe in are expressed by Holden in a believable way and he goes from careless to anguished with a touching spontaneity.

"If you want to be a duchess, be a duchess. And if you want to make love, hats off" Albert Finney

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] WhWm 13 years ago

You are entitled to your opinion but my family doesn't agree with you. Holden was great in this film and I cannot name any other actor I would have rather seen in it.

Holden was charismatic and gorgeous. PICNIC is not my favorite film of his but I certainly liked him better than any other star of the time.

I have read that Josh Logan said Holden was already cast before he signed on to do the movie. However, Logan said because of his box office appeal he was pleased Holden was cast.

Bill Holden has a stepdaughter who claims he felt he was too old for the part but if I remember correctly when I read her book, Holden's wife (Ardis) convinced him to accept it.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] jimakros 12 years ago

in fact i'm really surprised Holden was only 36 when he made this movie.He looks 10 years older in this about 45.Its the type of face he had and the lifestyle and the drinking made him look older.Like other people said,Novak's mother calls him "young man" but he looks middle-aged no way you would call him young man.Then ,Holden also had a seriousness about him as an actor,that was the basis of his appeal i believe,not just his age but his personality had something mature ,which doesnt help in this movie where in many scenes he has to act silly like a kid.Its kind of embarassing really to watch him in this movie.

[–] Minerva_Meybridge 12 years ago

I can't think of another actor before or since that has had William Holden's persona, with Sean Connery a close second, though of a different ilk. Cliff Robertson plays a somewhat spoiled rich kid to Holden's unwashed texture. But remember, Madge's father walked out of the family when she was a little girl, so her attraction to a slightly older man, a man around the age of her father when she last saw him, makes sense. As for his taking Millie as his "date." he's playful with her, not sexual. He calls her Kid. This was a different era. Everyone didn't have their minds in the gutter back then. Little girls used to be able to go topless at the beach without anyone giving it a second thought. The world has changed a lot since, but not in every way for the best.

The worst thing about about this film is that every star and supporting actor is dead other than Kim Novak, and she's 80. We may all love these old stars, but the Almighty apparently says, "Yippie ki yay," and sends them, one by one, to meet their maker. How sad to see the then 16 year old ever so pretty Susan Strasberg, and learn that she, too, is dead, from breast cancer. WTF! This is why I hate watching old films.

[–] Tjanssen411 12 years ago

I think it really comes down to 'scale'
-- Madge is expressly stated to be 19 (played by 22ish Novak); Millie was 16 (express or implied) and played by 18 year old Strasberg -- your average run of the mill 'Dawson's casting'

-- Cliff Roberstson was only 5 years younger than Holden but due to 'lifestyle' choices Robertson looked more appropriate around the Girls and 'in universe' lifestyle choices Alan being a 'suit' Hal being a 'hobo' explain Hal looking older still than their natural 5 years

The issue comes when you get the almost 40 Holden next to the Teenaged Strasberg
-- Hal and Millie may have been platonic, slight 'school girl crush', the Swimming scene where the other girls are Jealous that Hal is 'escorting' Millie makes it very clear that if Hal were escorting them THEY would not let him keep it platonic

Rosalind Russell at 48 playing the 'old maid teacher' also throws off the scale as she looks to be more of a contemporary to Holden

[–] ItsEddieHaskellBeyotch 12 years ago

I'm watching it right now and its still unintentionally laughable when the 'older' characters refer to Hal as 'boy' or 'young man'.

[–] TerpStudent 12 years ago

Yes, he was too old to play a college drop-out. Hal is a young adult and was meant to be a symbol of youth, in contrast to Rosemary. William Holden was a full grown adult and if he wasn't such a great actor, his rendition of the role would've been laughable.

Which is all the more reason why it did seem a little "creepy" that his date to the picnic looked young enough to be his daughter.

Ignore the trolls! Any failure to do so will only grant them the satisfaction they seek!

[–] Yorick_Brown 11 years ago

I agree with the critics. Holden was just too old for the part.

Paul Newman should have been cast instead.

I see a red door and I want it painted black
No colors anymore I want them to turn black...

[–] DeepFriedJello 11 years ago

No parent in 1950's Kansas would ever allow their 17 yo daughter to be "escorted" by a 37 yo man, let alone a drifter.
And I don't really see the attraction young women have for him. He's just old and grizzled. I sure don't recall the small town girls of that era chasing old grizzled men. Maybe in Hollywood.

[–] bradford-1 10 years ago

Newman wouldn't have been cast because his film career had just begun (with a flop at that) and this was considered a plum role. If not Holden, then who should've been cast? Brando was more age-appropriate, but I can't imagine him in this film. Definitely not Clift, either. Sinatra, Peck, Mitchum, Glenn Ford, Kirk Douglas, Gary Merrill, Jeff Chandler? All were in the same boat as Holden. How about the long-forgotten Richard Egan?
"May I bone your kipper, Mademoiselle?"

[–] bastasch8647 10 years ago

He was too old for the role. Having said that, ironically, he managed to carry the part. He had a forty-something years old face on a well-kept 30 year old body. The poster looks like an old guy's head has been pasted on a young guy's body.

I see no answer for the "who else could they have cast?" delimma. The studios just about HAD to have a Big Name. All the Picnic stars were popular and well-known, but the part of Hal just HAD to be played by a Big Name. Maybe the studio could have waited 2-3 years to see if there was an appropriate up-and-coming star. After all, Picnic's themes are lasting and universal, so waiting a little might not have hurt. .. I was thinking that if they had waited until, say, 1958-9, Steve McQueen may have been ripe for the role - was already star of his own TV show, and in two or so years, he would be in The Great Escape. Granted, he may have been too young, as Holden was too old, but even the young McQueen could play an older, kicked-around character with believability. I think he could have made the perfect cinematic Hal.

[–] 11 years ago

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