Sorry...I just don't 'get' Brando... - On the Waterfront (1954) Discussion

[–] kbrai 18 years ago

see a shrink...fast

"Im just a bum sitting in a motor home on a film set, BRANDO said, and they come looking for ZEUS".

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[–] aciolino 18 years ago

Very thoughtful, insightful, and mature response.

Guess the circus is in town...

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[–] gsic_batou 14 years ago

After your original post, you lost your privileges to ask for a thoughtful response.

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BB: Behold I plunge my hands in fire I feel no heat
DC: That's just great! Give us another.

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[–] Ace_Spade 18 years ago

I "get" him. Definitely one of my role models (for acting, in real life he would make a less-than-stellar example). I don't remember the shirt-fixing, but his naturalistic-ness in his roles is not only astounding but inspiring; almost every gesture was purposeful and in-character.

Brando didn't have to deliver a single line to make this performance powerful and moving. His stumbling walk up to the docks after getting his butt kicked is bittersweet, brilliant and well-played. That is not to say that his skills at delivering a line are weak, most of them (I would argue all of them) are genius.

I will give you this, though: Malden was AMAZING in this movie.

"You can't be a heretic to everybody."

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[–] spiderwort (11) 8 years ago

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[–] bananabry 18 years ago

Wow, amazing post and observations. I felt precisely the same way the first few times I saw Marlon in flims (this would have been decades ago): "who is the silly cat overacting and simpering his way through these parts?"

Yet, having studied his work, life and more importantly -- the history of acting -- I realize that he is, indeed, one of the most amazing performers who ever lived. He took acting into a new age. It's often called "psychological realism." (Elia Kazan deserves a lot of credit here, too).

On the other hand, I must agree with your opinion about Karl; you're quite right . He's a pretty amazing actor, too.

Thanks for your excellent and thought-provoking post.

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[–] spiderwort (11) 8 years ago

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[–] Ozymandius 18 years ago

>>>Is it me, or is Brando the most over-rated actor of all time?

It's just you.

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[–] jadeddee 18 years ago

.........definitely just you

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] tropical_trebuchets 18 years ago

I definitely 'get' Brando. Thank you, kenny1189. To the person whoever started this thread, I would suggest taking classes on film or acting, or reading about it; then I would propose seeing Brando films such as "The Godfather", "A Streetcar Named Desire", and "Apocalypse Now". All his performances in those films (as well as his in "On the Waterfront") are excellent.

If you're insulting and defacing Brando, you might as well say the same about Al Pacino and Robert DeNiro. They patterned their acting after Brando's. If you want to trace Method acting back even more, look to a man named Lee Straasberg (spelling?). I believe he was the man who really started Method.

I think Brando's childish way of acting this part in "Waterfront" was needed. For example, when the kids kill all the pigeons, he almost seems like the cogs in his brain are trying to reason out why they did it and that line, "Did they have to kill them all?", is a perfect display of childish confusion, which I think is excellent.

Oh, and don't make fun of the way Brando talks. I'm sure he couldn't really help it. I think he has a sort of lisp as well.

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[–] ShellOilJunior 18 years ago

It's just you...

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[–] aciolino 18 years ago

Based on the replies so far, I see that it is most assuredly not "just me."

As for only appreciating an actor having studied the "Method," hell, I was at the damned Studio for 4 years. And you know what, it's mostly *beep*

But you know what I've learned from this thread is that you cannot say a bad word about a myth. Since Brando has been hyped as a "God" there are those who worship him. To them, my comments, and those who agree with me, are sacreligious.

I stand by what I wrote. Brando has had some great moments in film. Many. But just as many, if not more, crap.

By the way, I'm not sure, but I don't think Freddy March, James Mason, Alec Guinness, Edward G. Robinson, or Olivier, or a billion other actor's has ever studied the Almighty Method! (genuflect now).

I've never seen such bad acting then at the freaking "Studio." Yeesh, grow up.

PS - check out some of the other posts on this forum that discuss Brando's performance. Not everyone thinks he's God.

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[–] TPro1 18 years ago

You're crazy dude.

Nicholson, Pacino, Depp, De Nero, Norton, Penn and a hundred other actors marveled at for their talents all call him the best. If you want to educate yourself on something you should go to the people who are the best at it right? Well unless you hate basically every actor that has ever been called, "good," then I say you are just jealous that the method didnt work for you and cant handle the fact that Brando, a high school drop out dominates acting even 50 years after he was in his prime.

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[–] aciolino 18 years ago

Well, I may be crazy, but that's another forum...

As for your comments and questions...

"If you want to educate yourself you should go to the people who are the best at it, right?" No. Not necessarily. Have you heard DeNiro speak? Great actor, but can't put two coherent sentences together. That aside, Pacino, Nicholson, Depp, Penn, yeah, they're all great, but that doesn't make their opinion any more valuable than mine, or yours, for that matter. In fact, people "in the trade," must be trusted LESS, not more than those outside of it.

"You are just jealous that the Method didn't work for you..." Jealous? No, not jealous. Like I said, it's *beep* Nicholson, Pacino, Norton, Penn, none of these guys needed the Almighty Method to become great. If the "Method" was sooooo damned great, why does it produce far more bad actors than good? (You don't see the bad ones, do you? They are legion.) Brando didn't need the "method."

Which brings me to another point: I never said Brando was an awful actor or a bad actor. I said, "I don't get him." More accurately, I don't get why he's considered a "God," when he's done as much crap and quality stuff, and HE HAS DONE A LOT OF QUALITY WORK.

But when you attempt to explode a myth...people get nuts. Wow! He's a human being people, not a God.

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[–] oluckymanuk 17 years ago

'explode a myth'? you need to think about what you type, you wreak of arrogance. what makes you a better judge than anyone else on brando's abilities? you couldn't explode dog sh!t, you clearly don't know what you're on about. fair enough if his performances didn't click with you, but to say some of the best actors today AND most people who know anything about film are somehow delluded and you're the only one with a clear enough head is egotistical and quite foolish. and the reason i think he's so good is because of the emotion he put into his work, i've never believed a character on screen like i have terry malloy.'When do we live? That's what I want to know.

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[–] lem15 14 years ago

I'm responding to an old post, so this may just be for general consumption, but the comment, "If you want to educate yourself on something you should go to the people who are the best at it right?" is rather silly. Good acting isn't an academic exercise or something we can put to a vote. It's always going to be somewhat subjective, an in-the-eye-of-the-beholder type thing.

Having grown up and lived in NYC neighborhoods with longshoremen and wiseguys going back to the 1950s, I can say that I never found Brando's more famous roles, specifically in "On The Waterfront" and "The Godfather", very believable. It always seemed to me like "Marlon Brando acting", or even someone doing an impression of Marlon Brando acting, rather than the character he was supposed to be portraying, e.g. Vito Corleone.

Of course, YMMV. If people think Brando is wonderful, that's fine by me. But it's also OK to have a different opinion. Some of the responses to the OP have been idiotic in the extreme, calling into question the intelligence and taste of the responders rather than the OP.

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[–] marxist_princess 17 years ago

Look, I don't know much about acting-- I'm just a filmgoer. But I agree with you. I was suprised when I saw this movie, because for me, his performance was so clunkily self-conscious that I was constantly aware there was an actor on the screen. I put foward this proposition humbly, but do you think it is possible to overthink acting? Do you think there might be something to the Harrison Ford philosophy of acting afterall?

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[–] LTUM 13 years ago

But you know what I've learned from this thread is that you cannot say a bad word about a myth. Since Brando has been hyped as a "God" there are those who worship him. To them, my comments, and those who agree with me, are sacreligious.

right on brother. it's sad how mindless most people are, just led along being told what is good or bad. i use the emperor's clothes metaphor a lot, but dammit, it fits every time so why not use it!!! lol

btw if you want to pm me i have a recommendation for you. one you may like

drugs...changed...everything..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8MGBn3KawM&feature=related

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[–] spiderwort (11) 8 years ago

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[–] odish 17 years ago

actually, "method" is part of stanislavski's system
strasberg just took a part of it

and for the original poster, i agree with all the people here that say that you should study a bit of acting or read or inform yourself a bit more before you start speaking with such freedom. it is ok if you don't like him as an actor and everything, but that doesn't give you the right to trash all his work.

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[–] spiderwort (11) 8 years ago

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[–] Charlie_Big_Potatoes 16 years ago

Kenny 1189 you are an imbecile.

When you say "And don't ever say that Marlon Brando is bad in public, because you will be looked at like an idiot" you show yourself to be somebody who cares more about what others think than what you think yourself. Also you twice suggest the original poster doesn't have the neccessary experience to post his opinion; firstly you do not know whether this is true or not, and secondly - everybody has a right to voice their opinion. Now *beep* off.

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[–] aciolino 16 years ago

Ah. The "snob" defense."

Listen, I've spent more time at the actor's studio (ugh!) than you can imagine, and they produce the worst *beep* actors ever. Plus, the damn "method" has become a religious cult. Like, Olivier, or Tracy weren't really good actors cause they didn't study the "method."

What bull***t.

And you're right, you NEVER bash Brando in public, for reasons you yourself have proven--he has become a "god,"--a myth, really.

More bull***t.

So, since you are so well versed in the "method," and have such extensive knowledge of the craft, when can we look forward to seeing your work? Appearing on Broadway anytime soon? Doing Lear at the Old Vic?

You're a cliched joke.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] oluckymanuk 15 years ago

So what? Your opinion is still just that, an opinion. I don't think anyone would have a problem with you giving a few reasons why you don't like Brando's work, it's your self righteous attitude that's getting people hostile. No one cares if you've been *beep* about in a studio, it isn't gonna change anyone's mind.

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[–] !!!deleted!!! (21424384) 12 years ago

What an idiotic rant, aciolino. Not because you trashed Brando, but because you don't have the courage of your convictions. Someone disagrees with you and you start calling them names and asking them if they act?

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[–] joekiddlouischama 11 years ago

I can understand the sentiment that Brando is overrated: a field such as acting is such a subjective, instinctive art, yet some people act as if Brando is objectively, unquestionably the best. In reality, no one can be objectively, unquestionably the best.

That said, I do find him highly effective in On the Waterfront as a spiritually dilapidated anonymous soul, young yet aging as a boxer, whose troubled conscience eventually becomes too much to bear and transforms him into a man with autonomy, authority, and agency. Brando conveys a broad range of emotions and implications, but does so by reflection more than projection.

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[–] spiderwort (11) 8 years ago

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[–] idirectorschair 18 years ago

u should check out the wild one. One of his most definitive roles. He defined a generation, inspired the style and that smile at the end of the movie was genuine and perfect.

I knew he was good, but after watching Wild one, i knew he was great.

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[–] dressedupindreams 18 years ago

This has nothing to do with anything else, but the smile he does at the end is perfect. At first it seems angry, and then suddenly you see it in his eyes. There is this spark of a guy in there who cares and feels. And then it spreads to his entire face. I had to watch it again and kind put it in slow motion to see just where his eyes change. It was lovely.

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[–] swinginglowbeatmaster 18 years ago

If thats so then, who do you get? Brando wrote the book for most of the greats coming up after him for his peers. I would say James Dean is one whom I dont get and understand he was heavily influenced by brando.

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[–] aciolino 18 years ago

Who do I get? Didn't you actually read my posting? I thought I was clear. To the list of who I DON'T GET we can add you.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] philipphs 18 years ago

Not that I agree with you,it's just that you brought up some interesting about roles.. What I'm asking you aciolino is do you think at the time the godfather was made that Lee J Cobb could have played Don Corleone effectively?

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[–] aciolino 18 years ago

Brilliant question. (not)

Nobody has raved on and on about Lee J. Cobb as the greatest actor or some kind of super-genius..the kind of stuff Brando gets.

I'll tell you this. Cobb is more versatile, believable, and genuine than Brando will ever be.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] philipphs 17 years ago

I posted this same exact question some time ago(about Lee J.Cobb as the Don) but in addition I ask now,how about Robert Ryan as Captain Mcklusky?

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] ecarle (14979) 6 years ago

about Robert Ryan as Captain Mcklusky?

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Ryan would have been great, but around this time he was taking larger "above the title" roles (The Wild Bunch, Lawman, Executive Action.) I think he died around 1974

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[–] ecarle (14979) 6 years ago

I think the whole deal about Marlon Brando was the greatest actor of all time has entered the world of the 21st Century internet chat board in the usual way: to be debunked.

Brando himself had a line he used with interviewers when told about some of his scandals: "Vas you dere, Charlie?"

Or: "Was you there, Charlie?" or "Were you there, Charlie?"

From everything I've read, what Marlon Brando brought to film acting was the destruction of the kind of mannered, staccato lightly fake line reading of actors of the 30's and forties. My only problem with that is that actors of the 30's and 40's like Cary Grant, James Cagney, and Spencer Tracy ALWAYS seemed to break free from fake line readings -- it was lesser actors who did it that way.

But Along Came Brando, searching the air for his lines(eventually he'd have cue cards made, now he was just trying to remember them) , pausing, and saying his lines with a powerful emotion that sometimes had a feminine edge even as he was playing masculine characters(an ex-boxer, a biker gang leader.)

A group of directors loved this "Method acting" and a group of actors sought out to emulate Brando(even as Monty Clift had been doing this kind of thing BEFORE Brando.) After Brando came James Dean. And Paul Newman. And Steve McQueen. And Robert DeNiro. And Jack Nicholson. And Al Pacino. And Mickey Rourke. The younger ones practically swore by Brando and how he influenced them so.

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[–] ecarle (14979) 6 years ago

As with Nicholson and Pacino to follow, Brando made his name with a series of important prestige movies -- and then rather struggled on in "lesser entertainment fare." Brando's big splash started with The Men(where he played a paraplegic), continued on to Streetcar Named Desire(bringing his gigantic Broadway reputation to the screen), Viva Zapata(with a Mexican ethnic edge to his performance as a leader), The Wild One(iconic as the biker who when asked "What are you rebelling against?" says "Whaddya got?" Julius Caesar(proving that the Method Man could do Shakespeare) and then, climactlcally, On the Waterfront(which finally earned him a Best Actor Oscar...Hollywood made Brando WAIT.)

Richard Dreyfuss...a big fan of Brando's ...said that group of movies in that close order was a record unbeaten by any great movie star. I dunno, maybe -- maybe not.

But that is where Brando made his name.

Indeed, as Brando rose...Cary Grant tried to retire(for a couple of years in the fifties before quitting for good in the 60's) and William Holden expressed a feeling that his work was obsolete. And yet Cary Grant signed on to the period war drama "The Pride and the Passion" because he thought Brando would be his co-star(it ended up being Sinatra, who quit the movie before it was finished.)

Its interesting: Brando made a movie, I think, every year in the 60's but the critics of the time(as they are won to do) seemed to think that "Brando's fifties magic was gone." I've seen some of these movies, Brando seems to be TRYING, he looks great(maturing, the weight gain not yet in evidence) but evidently "when you're cold you're cold."

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[–] ecarle (14979) 6 years ago

It would take the 70's and the back-to-back triumphs of The Godfather and Last Tango in Paris for Brando to win his bona fides back. He moved strongly into Native American rights in that period as a "personal calling" card. And then, from "The Missouri Breaks" on, Brando seemed content to play high-paid short roles, either cameos(Superman, where he is only in the beginning: Apocalypse Now, where he's only at the end) or shorter than you'd think appearances(The Freshman, The Formula.)

I thought Brando was quite good in one of his final films, "Don Juan DeMarco" with his soulmate Johnny Depp and Faye Dunaway along as his wife. By then, Brando was physically enormous, but they kept the camera mainly on his face and he was relaxed and natural, and compelling.

Critic Pauline Kael once wrote that Marlon Brando and Sean Connery were the two actors she most liked watching on the screen: for their looks, their intensity, their swagger. Brando DOES have something, I find myself watching his movies waiting for him to sabotage them somehow, to stop believing somehow. But his intense looks and mysterious manner still win.

Before, during, and after Brando's big years...there were lots of other male movie stars to covet: I'd pick Bogart, Grant, Tracy...Holden, Douglas, Lancaster.....Newman, McQueen, Connery....Nicholson, Redford, Pacino....lots of and lots of actors one might like more.

But Brando was his own deal, and somehow has pulled off the respect necessary for his work from all those decades ago.

He matters.

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