I notice a lot of threads on this board saying she was a horrible person, which I don't think she was. She did self-centered things, but ALL of the characters did. There were times when I felt sorry for her, though. Like, how she basically starved herself just so she could be in Ricky's show. Were there any other instances where you felt sorry for her?
shareI used to feel sorry for her when Ricky would YELL at her. I know she did some selfish things, but he really could blow his top.
shareRicky could get very volatile, but I think when he did it was with some real justification when Lucy did something shocking and really troubling. Some examples would include her spending $3,000.00 for new furniture for the Connecticut home when he told her she could only spend $500, when she got him fired from MGM, when she spent $500 for the Don Loper original when he told her she could only spend $100. etc.
Even though I think the episode with the Baby Pictures competition between the Ricardos and the Applebys is a funny one, I've never liked the ending when Ricky forces Lucy to appear on TV acknowledging Stevie Appleby as the most beautiful baby she's ever seen. We know Ricky doesn't agree with that, and I feel as if he sold out Little Ricky for a job.
Well, as far as the $500 dress goes, she picked the simplest one, thinking it would be cheaper.
shareTrue, but when Ethel asks her how she could buy any dress without checking the price first, Lucy admits she did it because she wanted to be in the fashion show.
Oh, yeah! I remember the fashion show, just forgot that was the reason, LOL
shareIt's interesting that in one of the Europe episodes, when Lucy demands Rick buy her an expensive Paris gown, Ricky reminds Lucy that she signed an agreement that she would never ask for another expensive dress after Ricky "bought her" a Don Loper original. Of course, in the plot of that episode, Lucy manages to get the Don Loper dress for free when she does the fashion show.
Perhaps Lucy bought another Don Loper dress with the $500 check Ricky left her?
Lucy probably kept it, she was sneaky like that. LOL. It was nice of Ricky, however, to leave that check for her because he felt bad for yelling at her when she was in pain from her sunburn. What I want to know is how did Ricky find out about the incident with William Holden at the Brown Derby?
share It is true that Lucy could do things that made Ricky angry. I don't blame him for that. It's just the yelling that bothered me.
My ex-husband was very verbally abusive and he used to scream a lot. It's no fun being yelled at and I didn't even do the things Lucy did like buying thousands of dollars worth of furniture.
I just don't think adults need to SCREAM at each other to get their point across.
I can see your point, PJ, and I agree that screaming is not generally the way to solve problems, but I can understand Ricky being shocked at Lucy's behavior and initially yelling at her, especially since, she'd do such devastating things, and talking calmly to her never seemed to make much impression.
I also didn't like when Lucy would cry, since it was usually fake and Lucy usually did it to manipulate Ricky and get her own way. Not to mention that the crying sounded very grating.
I've read that Desi Arnaz was adamant that the scripts for ILL retain Ricky's masculinity/head of the household status in the face of Lucy's Force of Nature personality. The writers probably felt Ricky's yelling was part of that image.
Corryveckan45- I also see your point. Desi had to play a guy who was constantly manipulated by his wife and he needed SOME outlet to express his anger.
I do get a little touchy about the yelling issue. As I said, my ex was a screamer and verbally abusive. But characters like Ricky or Ralph Kramden were just yelling out of frustration. Most of the time it was funny. Comedy yelling is different than yelling in a drama. It's hilarious when done by a skilled actor.
My ex, however, yelled for mostly one reason, and that was to be mean and hurt my feelings.
About Lucy's crying, that too was really fake and manipulative. I remember Carl Reiner explaining how he taught Mary Tyler Moore to "fake cry" on the Dick van Dyke Show. He said that real crying isn't funny on a sitcom. Lucy's crying was obviously fake when she was trying to manipulate Ricky into doing her bidding.
Good points, PJ:
I'm sorry that Ricky's "temper tantrums" bring up unpleasant memories for you, and I can understand why they do. I'm glad he's your "ex husband," and you no longer have to go through that terrible treatment. No one deserves to be abused and diminished that way, and certainly not someone as nice as you are.
I do think the scenes where Ricky loses his temper are among the best in the series, both for Desi's skill at building Ricky to the boiling point and for Lucy's varied reactions (sometimes a "dropped jaw" to express shock, sometimes nervous nodding in agreement, nervous quick smiles, etc.) In the episode where the Ricardos decide to raise chickens to defray some of the cost of living in their new Connecticut home, I always laugh when Ricky is reviewing the monthly household accounts and Lucy mentions her relief that it's taken his mind off the $3,000. she spent on the new furniture. Ricky's scream of shock at the memory of it is priceless.
I've seen several interviews with Mary Tyler Moore in which she stated that her role model for Laura Petrie's crying was Nanette Fabray when she played Sid Cesar's wife in Your Show of Shows. MTM really did a superb job of making Laura's crying scenes both funny and touching. Perhaps my favorite is the scene in the episode of their attempted marriage when Laura thinks Rob has jilted her:
Rob: Aw Honey, Don't cry like that!
Laura (through her tears): This is the only way I know how to cry!
Even though I'm one of those people who often finds Lucy's behavior selfish, I think I've mentioned before that I feel very sorry for Lucy in the "Lucy Goes to Monte Carlo" episode.
The poor woman really doesn't do anything wrong. She tries again and again to obey Ricky's edict that she not gamble. She keeps telling the people at the casino that the money she wins accidentally isn't hers, keeps pushing it away and tries to give it back. Then, when Ricky catches up with her and tells her she can keep it, she loses it all!
Oh, yeah, I forgot about the money. Another one where I didn't really feel sorry for her so much as I thought she was right. The way Ricky and Fred dressed to go to the movies. No, they shouldn't of gotten rid of the clothes without their permission, but can you really blame them?
shareI think Lucy and Ethel were right on this one, too. I don't think Ricky needed to wear a sport coat and tie, but he and Fred should have looked neat and presentable.
I mentioned this in a post a while back and some posters disagreed, but aside from generally dressing nicely when you're out, Ricky is a celebrity in New York City, and there's always the chance he could be seen some important people in show business circles who would be put off by his sloppy attire.
Lucy and Ethel definitely shouldn't have disposed of the clothes without checking with Ricky and Fred. On the other hand, Ricky and Fred had apparently been promising for a long time to get rid of the clothes themselves, and they shouldn't have done that either.
That's a good point about Ricky being a celebrity and he needed to consider his appearance when he was out in public. He didn't need to wear a suit and tie. But he could have at least changed into a clean shirt and pants.
That was one of those episodes which exaggerated some aspect of the characters' lives to make a joke. Although Fred was often seen in his work clothes when he was taking care of the apartment building, he was often in a suit and tie. And Ricky was never shown to dress like an outright slob!
But in this episode they had to wear hobo outfits to create the comedy.
As for disposing of their old clothes, my mom often got rid of my dad's threadbare threads because he would wear clothes until they fell apart. I think it's a wife's right not to be seen in public with a guy whose clothes embarrass her. lol
Lucy and Ethel's big mistake was in leaving their names with the thrift shop owner. I've actually never heard of that practice when you give away something for free. Most places just take donations. They should have dropped off the clothes at the Goodwill or Salvation Army anonymously.
Good point about dropping the clothes off anonymously, but, as you've pointed out, where would the comedy come from if Lucy and Ethel had just dropped the clothes off?
I've often thought what Lucy, and perhaps even Ethel, should have done was to tell their husbands that they (Lucy and Ethel) dress well, in part, because they want to look good for their husbands, and they're disappointed and hurt that Ricky and Fred don't reciprocate those feelings.
I will never forget one Saturday several years ago when I spent the morning cleaning out my office (moving boxes, files, dusting furniture, throwing things out, etc.). I was wearing old. comfortable, but definitely somewhat worn clothes and by the time I finished, I was what Fred might call "A nice big dusty mess." (Not that bad, but I think you get the idea.)
As I was leaving my office, I saw an advertisement for a free jazz concert by a local singer being given at the local concert hall, which was right across the street from my office. I wanted to attend the concert, and I was sure there wouldn't be a big audience, and, for a moment, I thought, "Well, I'll just go in my casual clothes, and sit in back where no one will see me." I immediately checked the thought, because I thought, as my parents taught me, "You never know who you might run into." I went home, got cleaned up, put on a sport coat and dressy casual shirt and slacks.
When I got back to the concert hall, I still thought I would sit in the back and as I made my way toward my projected seat, I ran into one of my bosses and his wife! So I think it's a rule well worth remembering.
Corry, that's a good point about dressing up a bit because you never know who you'll run into in public.
I could write an editorial for the newspaper on the current slob state of American dressing. Now I am not a snob nor do I think people need to be dressed to the nines or wear expensive clothes. I don't. But I find really great bargains at thrift stores although NOT like the duds Lucy and Ethel got rid of that belonged to the boys.
I come from an era of having play clothes, school clothes, and dress clothes. Or as they used to call it, your "Sunday best". My sisters and I wore uniforms, but the other kids I knew didn't wear play clothes as school clothes like they do today. And we couldn't wait to get our new school shoes in September. And believe me, they were NOT sneakers which weren't allowed anyway.
I am appalled at the way some people dress for church! Or at funerals! Geez, you're going to a funeral. It's not a picnic. Have some respect for the dead.
Adding to that list, later on I had work clothes. I used to be a flight attendant for a while so I wore a uniform. But then I was a substitute teacher and I couldn't believe how poorly many teachers dressed. I mean, pedal pushers and sandals or flip flops??
Those things are beach wear or sitting-on-your-porch-in-the-summer wear. I didn't wear dresses but I wore dress pants (not jeans) and dress shoes.
The way Fred and Ricky dressed in that episode would go unnoticed around here. There's an epidemic of pajama pants in public. I have four pairs of them but I wear them as nature intended, for sleeping! People in stores are dressed in them with what looks like bedroom slippers.
How can people have so little pride in their appearance? It doesn't cost a lot of money to look well groomed and put together. Some people have gotten so lazy. They wear shorts and sandals year round.
Sorry for the rant. This subject gets to me!
No problems with the "rant," PJ,
I agree. I mean, you don't have to dress formally for a casual night out, but you like to dress as if you respect yourself and other people and you should want to make a good appearance.
I knew a judge who sat in a local court. When the list of the day's cases were called and the defendant came forward in response to the call of his/her case, if the defendant's shirt wasn't tucked in or they were otherwise sloppily dressed, the judge would order him/her out of the courtroom with an order that he/she fix his/her appearance.
The defendant's case would be put at the bottom of the list for further call. This meant that the person's case would not be called until at or near the end of the list at second call, which meant that they might have to wait for hours just to get a further date or something else that would only have taken a minute or two.
Oh wow, your story about the judge reminds me of the judge in one of my favorite films, "My Cousin Vinnie". Did you ever see it? Joe Pesci is the lawyer Vinnie and when he stands to address the judge, he is wearing his customary leather jacket and jeans.
The judge is aghast and asks, "What are you wearing?"
It's such a funny scene. He tells Vinnie the next time he comes to court, he better be wearing a suit and it better be made out of some kind of CLOTH! lol
Aside from sloppy dress in church, people often don't have respect for the law either. I couldn't imagine coming before a judge if I wasn't in proper attire.
People have begun to take casual dress to new heights or new lows, as it were.
When I was in high school, all the men teachers wore sport coats or jackets and always wore a tie. Women wore dresses. We had one young female teacher who was always beautifully dressed. One day she wore a pantsuit. It was the dressy type of pantsuit that Mary Richards wore at WJM on The Mary Tyler Moore Show.
The teacher was told NOT to wear pants again. And she looked really nice.
Hi PJ,
Yes, I love MY COUSIN VINNY. Fred Gwynne is terrific as the judge, as is the rest of the cast, and it's very realistic when he warns Joe Pesci that the next time Pesci appears in his courtroom he will look "Lawyerly!"
I don't know when people became so lax about their appearance. Of course, I suppose people who grew up in the 1930s/40s probably would be aghast at the way people dressed i nthe 1960s/70s. I recall an episode of I LOVE LUCY where Ethel refused to get on the subway in Blue Jeans! And in movies like THE ANDY HARDY films, Mickey Rooney, "America's Teenager" is often dressed in a shirt and tie (and hat!) even when he's just running around "Carvel!"
Even Lucy, as wacky as she was, only dressed "inappropriately" when she was trying to pull off one of her schemes/make a point, as in the episode where Ricky refuses to keep their apartment neat. Then, of course, she got her "Just deserts" by having her photograph appear on the cover of LOOK Magazine.
Another COUSIN VINNY fan!
Yes, I recall Ethel saying she wouldn't wear jeans on the subway.
Even when they wore dresses at home and had to go out, Lucy would say to Ethel, "Hurry and get dressed."
I have a DVD about Alfred Hitchcock. One segment talks about the film Psycho and showed all the theaters with long lines of movie patrons. It's amazing to see people who are just going to the movies wearing dresses and jackets and ties.
I think Lucy's Italian Movie is the worst I ever felt for her. I mean, she genuinely thought going to the winery would help her practice for her role in that movie and and then she lost the role to Ethel over it.
shareThat's a very good example.
I just wish she would take time to reflect on her actions, then she wouldn't get into so much trouble. For instance, in this episode, she automatically assumes that the title "Bitter Grapes," is a literal one and means that she'll need to have knowledge of the Grape Industry and the women who press the grapes out.
In this episode, given Ricky's general attitude that he didn't want Lucy in show business, I don't think it's such a stretch for her to believe that Ricky didn't want her to appear in the movie, but I don't think he ever tells her she can't be in the movie, does he?
I feel sorry for Lucy in the "Housewarming" episode. Once again, she sort of jumps the gun, not taking into account that Ethel and Betty Ramsey are enjoying spending time together getting acquainted, enjoy their new friendship Still, Lucy did go to a lot of trouble (preparing a special luncheon) to bring them together, and it was somewhat thoughtless of Ethel and Betty to ignore her, especially after she was reaching out to each of them, or at least to Ethel, to spend some time with her.
Of course, if she didn't jump the gun, I guess she wouldn't be the Lucy character so many people love.
Yeah, that was actually one episode where Ricky didn't care if she was in a movie or not, since it was just a small part. He even tells Ethel the only reason he didn't want Lucy to go soak up local color was because he didn't want her to get into trouble. I did feel sorry for her, though, and thought it was kind of mean of Ethel to take the part when she saw how upset Lucy was.
shareAnother episode where I've always felt sorry for Lucy is the episode where she meets Ricky's mother. Ricky's mom arrives early, and Lucy continually flubs her efforts to impress her, but you can see in this episode how much Lucy's marriage to Ricky means to her, and how vital it is for her to win her Mother-in-Law's approval.
Fortunately, Ricky's mom turns out to be a real sweetheart who can see how much Lucy wants her approval and loves her for it.
Similarly, I feel sympathy for Lucy when she meets Ricky's imperious "Uncle Alberto." She's so nervous she just can't do anything right or make a good impression.
I always thought it might be interesting if they'd done an episode where Ricky tries to win "Mrs. McGillicuddy's" approval. Somehow I doubt it would have ended as happily as Lucy's relationship with her mothe-in-law.