MovieChat Forums > I Love Lucy (1951) Discussion > How Much Older Was Ethel Than Lucy?

How Much Older Was Ethel Than Lucy?

posted a year ago by Corryveckan45 (168)
21 replies | jump to latest

I recently caught part of the "Passports" episode on Pluto TV, and was surprised to hear Lucy's birth year openly revealed on air as 1921. It was stated by the attorney husband of her two-faced, vain, petty, lying, soulless, godless, spineless waste-of-skin former baby sitter, "Helen Kaiser," as he was reviewing Lucy's affidavit. The running gag of the women on the show concealing their ages seems so prominent throughout the run of the series that it really caught me by surprise.


Anyway, it made me wonder how much older Ethel is supposed to be than Lucy. If Lucy was born in 1921, at the time of the Europe episodes (1955/56), she was 34/35 years old.This would also track with the "Lucy Tells the Truth" episode when Lucy reveals her age to be 33.


Was Ethel's actual age/birth year ever revealed? In the "Ethel's Birthday" episode I recall that funny bit when Lucy and Ethel are trying to drop hints to Ricky & Fred by mentioning the birthday anniversaries of the "Speedy Cleaners" (40th) and "Goldblat's Delicatessen" (50th). Fred declines to reveal Ethel's actual age, but confirms it's between "Speedy Cleaners" and "Goldblat's Delicatessen", so Ethel is somewhere in her 40s.

I believe the Mertzes are supposed to have been married approximately 10 years longer than the Ricardos, but I don't think Lucy's catty comment in her unpublished novel that there was "a vast difference in their ages" (between Lucy and "Ethel Nertz!) was to be taken seriously.

Any guesses? Or was Ethel's actual age ever revealed? Thanks





reply
formatting help
[–] PaladinNJ (21509) a year ago

Even though Vance was only two years older than Lucille Ball, Ethel was intended to be much older. The Mertz's were supposed to be retired. That's why William Frawley was hired.

When they couldn't get the actress they wanted, they hired Vivian Vance. The way I hear it, she tried to get Fred recast but Desi Arnaz stuck by his word and kept him. She resented that she was stuck with him and let people know. Frawley found out what she had been saying. That's how their behind the scene feud started.

reply
formatting help
[–] Corryveckan45 (168) a year ago

Thanks for your insights. I've always heard that the feud/animosity between Vance and Frawley started when Vance showed up for the first day's work and asked who'd be playing her husband. Someone pointed out Frawley and she said something like: "HIM?! You're kidding! He should be playing my GRANDFATHER!" Frawley overheard Vance's comment and never forgave her for it.

It's been a long time since I read Arnaz's memoir, but I recall him saying that Frawley "couldn't stand" Vance, but she was "wonderful" about putting up with him. She just figured he was an old Poop" and ignored his rotten attitude.

So do you think Ethel was supposed to be 10 years or more older than Lucy?

Maybe there really was "a vast difference in their ages." lol

reply
formatting help
[–] PaladinNJ (21509) a year ago

She didn't ignore him. She was the one who ignited the feud. When a chance came to do a spin off, Frawley was willing but Vance refused.

reply
formatting help
[–] Corryveckan45 (168) a year ago

Perhaps, but, as I pointed out, to the best of my recollection, in his memoir, Arnaz cited Frawley as the troublemaker and praised Vance's patience in putting up with him. For example, I recall Arnaz stating in his book that Frawley would come up to him before scenes where "Ethel" was supposed to sing complaining, "Where did you get this B****? She can't sing worth a d***! You're going to have her sing again!" Arnaz would patiently explain that Vance was a wonderful actress and "Ethel Mertz" wasn't supposed to sing well.

It's been a very long time since I read Desi's book, but I don't recall him pointing out any unprofessional/nasty behavior on Vance's part toward Frawley.

I get the impression that Frawley treted Vance offscreen the way Fred often treated Ethel onscreen, without the comedy elements. Given how nasty Fred could be to and about Ethel onscreen, I've often wondered why she marred him, especially since she was "The Flower of Albuquerque!"

In any event, to get back to my original question: how much older do you think Ethel was than Lucy?

reply
formatting help
[–] liscarkat (18367) a year ago

Why did Ethel marry Fred? Obviously she had a thing for flabby, bald, grouchy dudes old enough to be her dad.

reply
formatting help
[–] Corryveckan45 (168) a year ago

Right on! lol

reply
formatting help
[–] ReyRo (61) a year ago

I would love to find the time to read his autobiography some day, do you recommend it for those of us curious about all the goings on behind the scenes of ILL? Is it any good?

reply
formatting help
[–] Corryveckan45 (168) 10 months ago

Yes. I'd recommend it. It's a very enjoyable "read," and he does give some background on the production history/casting of ILL. I'm not a huge ILL fan, but I enjoyed it very much.

reply
formatting help
[–] ReyRo (61) a year ago

I was just about to ask this same question, happy I'm not the only one wondering. I can't help but notice the obvious age gap between Ethel and Fred whenever I watch ILL. I don't mind it really, but it makes you wonder in the back of your mind how that partnership happened(in the story). And it makes it so very hard to figure her age out, whether she's closer to Fred or Lucy or right smack in between.

I always figured Ethel was in her early 40s and Fred was in his early 50s, although he looks much older than that really and she looks younger than that but some people just age faster. Does it ever go into how Ethel and Fred met and married?

reply
formatting help
[–] Corryveckan45 (168) 10 months ago

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's wondered about this issue. To be honest, and no criticism intended to my fellow posters, given how often the "age" issue is raised for comic material on ILL, I thought my question would have received more responses than it has.

In "Lucy Tells the Truth," from Season 3, Lucy states her age as "33." In "Ethel's Birthday," from Season 4, Fred says that Ethel's age is somewhere between 40 and 50, so Ethel could well be 10 years or more older than Lucy.

Assuming that the series is not tampering with the characters' timeline, if Ethel is turning 40/41 on her birthday, that would make her about 6 years older than Lucy (who may have turned 34 between season 3 and season 4).

reply
formatting help
[–] ReyRo (61) 10 months ago

I was just watching the episode "Ethels Birthday" from season 4 and Fred mentions he's been buying Ethel birthday presents for 26 years. So assuming she was 18 when they married that would make her 44. She could've been a year older or younger when she married but I have a feeling she married young and it just kinda makes sense because later in "Ethels Hometown" we discover she was quite popular with the boys, so if she had waited any longer she wouldve likely married one of her hometown sweethearts instead of Fred. My theory on how they met was he was a kind of war hero passing through Albuquerque and she was smitten with his veteran status, mature age, uniform, and the promise of whisking her away from her little town and into the Big City. She probably had aspirations like Lucy of making it big in show business and saw the potential for Fred to provide her the means to do just that.

reply
formatting help
[–] Corryveckan45 (168) 10 months ago

Good points, ReyRo:

It makes sense that Ethel would have married young, and I agree that she might have thought that marriage to Fred would help her achieve her stardom as a performer. In "Ethel's Hometown," Ethel makes several references to having gotten her start as a performer at her hometown theatre, so she likely had been a performer before she met Fred.

I think this would put Ethel at least around her mid-40s, which means that she was approximately 10 years older than Lucy.









+equerque

reply
formatting help
[–] Stratego (30494) 10 months ago

I recall Ethel in one episode saying how she was reminded of being a flapper.

reply
formatting help
[–] Corryveckan45 (168) 10 months ago

Now that you mention it, I think I remember Ethel saying she was a flapper, too.

If Ethel was born in 1911 (ten years before Lucy) she could have been a flapper in the late 20s, when she would have been in her late teens, so she could still be approximately a decade older than Lucy.

Which is at least younger than Fred's insinuation that Abraham Lincoln signed her birth certificate. lol

reply
formatting help
[–] [email protected] (5854) 10 months ago

I agree with the other posts about Ethel marrying an older man who was already in show business. She had show biz ambitions and thought an older man with connections would help her achieve her goals.

When they visit Ethel's hometown it's obvious that her father, who seemed to be about Fred's age, never approved of her choice of husband. He realized that Ethel was not making the best choice.

reply
formatting help
[–] Corryveckan45 (168) 10 months ago

It makes you wonder what Fred's career in Vaudeville was like when Ethel met him. Was he a headliner? Top half of the bill? Was he still with Barney Kurtz? I assume he was still with Barney Kurtz as Fred and Ethel both reminisce about performing with Barney, or at least on the same bill as Barney, in the "Mertz and Kurtz" episode.

Even though I think it's safe to assume that the Lucy/Desi Comedy Hour rewrote ILL history, in the episode which details how Lucy and Ricky met, Ricky's narration includes a reference to "gay young blade" Fred Mertz and "his child bride Ethel" being on their honeymoon on the same cruise ship that Lucy is on.

reply
formatting help
[–] [email protected] (5854) 10 months ago

The Comedy Hour sure did rewrite the history of both couples! The Mertzes as a "gay young blade" and " his child bride"? lol

At the time of her marriage, Lucy MacGillicuddy was already in her mid twenties and Ethel was supposedly a decade older. There are hardly any thirtysomething "child brides".

I've never been a fan of sitcom episodes which cast the actors as their much younger selves. You can't expect older actors to pull off such a drastic change in their looks. They only succeed in looking comical, I think.

As for Fred's vaudeville career, he probably seemed like a big success to a small town gal like Ethel Potter. It's doubtful he was a star of the caliber of someone like Jack Benny, George Burns, Fred Allen, etc. He never made the transition to a successful radio show, movies or TV.

I think he saw the handwriting on the wall as far as his show biz career was concerned and that's why he got out and bought the brownstone.

reply
formatting help
[–] Corryveckan45 (168) 10 months ago

I agree, PJ.

Fred and Ethel apparently spent some time together as a vaudeville team, but didn't achieve any great success as performers. I recall that Fred was envious (in a nice way) of his ex-partner "Barney Kurtz's" great success as a vaudeville attraction in Europe, so I think it's pretty clear Fred never became a big draw in vaudeville, with or without Ethel.

Was Lucy perhaps in her early 20s when she married Ricky? I recall that in the episode when she finds out she's pregnant, she initially dismisses Ethel's suggestion that she might be by saying: "I've been married 11 years, Ethel!" In the episode"Lucy Tells The Truth," which takes place after the birth of Little Ricky (though I'm not sure how long after), she admits to her catty girlfriends (including Ethel!) that she's 33 years old.

Anyway, I'm also not a fan of sitcom episode where the actors are cast as their much younger selves, though I recall an episode of BEWITCHED in which Samantha cast a spell on the Kravitzes to have them both dream of his marriage proposal. She did it to reunite them after a fight. I thought it was kind of funny, just because Alice Pearce and Geroge Tobias were obviously supposed to look out of place in their college/high school attire.

I thought The Dick Van Dyke Show always did a good job of it because Rob and Laura were young, and the "flashbacks" never went further back than their courtship days.

reply
formatting help
[–] [email protected] (5854) 10 months ago

Yes, I think Lucy was supposed to be in her early twenties when she she got married. If she was indeed telling the truth(!) in the episode where she admits her age, it would put her in her early twenties when she married Ricky.

That would place Ethel in her thirties when she met Lucy. Of course if we go by that storyline, Ethel COULD have been a "child bride". The Mertz's anniversary varied all the time. Initially they were married 18 years, then it was their 25th anniversary, then their 23rd,etc. The writers didn't keep track too well of the number of years they were married.

I agree about the flashback episode with the Kravitzes. In that case it was just a dream. You can't rely on dreams to be accurate! lol I've had many dreams were I am still a kid and my sisters are too. I dream of my late parents a lot and they are always in their thirties in my dreams. They were old when they died, but they remain forever young in my dreams!

The Dick van Dyke Show did a good job with the flashbacks. It was Carl Reiner's intent to flesh out Rob and Laura's backstory. He wanted to show the history of their courtship and early marriage.

reply
formatting help
[–] ewd76 (1164) 3 months ago

I always figured Ethel and Fred were intended to be seen as about the same age even though the actors obviously weren't. In one episode it is said that Fred had been in France during WWI, which could easily make him fiftyish when the show was on. The actor William Frawley was almost 31 when the US got into the war. There's no indication that he was an officer. Not saying he couldn't have been there, but he's definitely on the upper edge of realism.

reply
formatting help
[–] Corryveckan45 (168) 3 months ago

I think in one of the episodes preparing for the European trip, Fred mentions that he was a Corporal in World War I. Someone mentions Paris and Fred says, "Dry your eyes you cute little Mademoiselles. Corporal Mertz is about to make his triumphant return!"

reply
formatting help
About | Contact | Privacy | Terms | Standards | Contribute
Top Movie Discussions
Gladiator II Discussion | The Substance Discussion | Red One Discussion | Heretic Discussion | Wicked Discussion | Anora Discussion | Venom: The Last Dance Discussion | Terrifier 3 Discussion | Megalopolis Discussion | The Wild Robot Discussion | Emilia Pérez Discussion | Smile 2 Discussion | Conclave Discussion | Juror #2 Discussion | Small Things Like These Discussion
Copyright © 2017 - 2024 MovieChat LLC

MovieChat is not affiliated with IMDb, IMDb Message Boards, or Reddit