MovieChat Forums > Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Discussion > What Marxist drivel is she churning out ...

What Marxist drivel is she churning out now?


Hey AOC....look at the glorious “Rainbow Nation” of South Africa and how its thriving under ANC rule. They have everything you want; aggressive affirmative action programs, land redistribution, uber liberal cultural/social policies.

And all aimed at targeting only one demographic for dispossession; White People!

Oh btw, just ignore the 32% unemployment rate, the 58 homicides a day, 40% of women being raped, the rioting, looting and infrastructural collapse. It’s white People's fault anyway for not agreeing to more aggressive dispossession.

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She is also praising the Communist Government in Cuba.

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Yeah and blaming America for it. As if that ineffectual embargo is really the cause of their Economic woes. The rest of the world trades with Cuba. They have shortages and bread lines because that’s what happens in every socialist country.

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Moving these avowed communists to communist countries is actually a legitimate response.

How many are there? 20? 50?

Compared to free speech capitalist countries where the government doesn’t interfere with your ascent? 1? 0.5?

Clearly they have the choice and should GTFO of the U.S.

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Well she did say that the crisis at the border is not the result of the presidents failed policies but because of global warming, even though temperatures have only gone up 1.5 degrees in the past 150 years.

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They're literally rushing past the border to exploit and take advantage of her liberal policies that steal from tax payers to give to foreigners, who cut in line, past American poor people, then arent even held accountable for all the laws they break. License to steal and cheat, so they can vote democrat and continue getting hand outs they dont deserve or earn.

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Welcome to Favelazation

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She doesn’t care about anyone but herself and she’s willing to let people die and society crumble so she can get more power. She’s a very sick woman

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She's not sick. Don't be fooled. It's an act.

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idk am too busy staring wide eyed at her glorious rack to pay any attention to what she is talking about. man her rack truly is magnificent

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How do you know it's not a padded bra?

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Lol wouldn’t be surprised if she stuffs

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please dont ruin my fantasy

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Durr, South Africa is a corrupt sh*thole because of decades of apartheid rule. White people continue to subjugate black people over there and hoard the wealth.

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"White people continue to subjugate black people over there"

Wow. You need to pay attention if you're going to make pronouncements. Whites are being brutalized there now.

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Brutalized, raped, murdered on their farms. It’s more dangerous to be a white farmer in South Africa than it is to be a cop in most places.

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Lol false, stop watching Faux News and reading Breitbart and you might get a better grasp of the issues.

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Stop watching CNN and reading WaPo, they made you a moron!

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Typical arrogant leftist know-it-all. Stop getting your marching orders from the NYT and start looking at the actual sources.

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You fool. I use academic sources. Scholarly articles etc. Anyway, it’s a wel
Known fact that Mandela and the ANC just negotiated a deal with the ruling apartheid class instead of ending them. White people kept all the wealth, power and capital and a small number of blacks just got to eat at the same table in exchange.

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Hahaha, cope harder maybe the ANC will hear you. What a load of crap. Whites have no political or Military power; affirmative action programs like BBBEE make it so that blacks must be represented in the Economy...too bad they just can’t maintain what whites left intact for them.

Let’s look at the list of their failed endeavors in the last 27 years shall we?

1. https://www.enca.com/analysis/eskom-very-dire-financial-situation-energy-analyst

(National Utility company, going bankrupt).

2. https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-africa-business-airlines-south-africa-b6c4196ece3070025a7728d4e90606e1

(National Airways/Flag Carrier, bankrupt).

3. https://www.google.com/amp/s/businesstech.co.za/news/banking/231009/all-the-south-african-banks-that-have-failed-in-the-past-30-years/amp/

(Banks and other financial institutions going bankrupt).

4. https://www.defenceweb.co.za/industry/industry-industry/denel-land-systems-unable-to-pay-may-2021-salaries/

(Military industries so bankrupt they can’t even pay salaries).

5. https://www.google.com/amp/s/businesstech.co.za/news/government/402571/south-africas-army-is-in-a-critical-state-of-decline-heres-how-bad-things-are-right-now/amp/

(The military itself in “critical state of decline.” Mind you this was once one of the best militaries in the world, with nuclear weapons...the only country in Africa to have them).

To say nothing of what they’ve done to the hospitals and schools. But no no...let’s blame a politically powerless demographic that comprises only 8% of the population. That’ll fix things.

But it’s useless talking to people like you. Mounting evidence of similar patterns in Zimbabwe, Haiti, Detroit and Baltimore will never convince Europhobic fanatics like you. You’ll just scream “white supremacy” and think you’re so smart for doing so.

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And you are blaming this on socialism and not government ineptitude and corruption?

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So why was there no ineptitude before 1994? Why were the Boer and other whites able to build the most developed and industrialized nation in Africa? Complete with nuclear weapons and 1st world infrastructure?

And why is there now a general collapse of all those once highly regarded institutions? All under the watch of a governing political party that is in an official union with the SACP(South African Communist Party).

Why is the most successful municipality in the country:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qVEcvdclrqo&t=2s

The sole municipality that is Boer/white only in the country?

Coincidence? I think not.

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Again, you are blaming it on an ideology and not circumstances.

Have you even been to South Africa?

I am not arguing that there aren't issues in there, but when you are talking about the whites being able to all that you've mentioned, you are not asking yourself how they accomplished that.

When you segregate a society to that effect it's easy for wealth to be accomplished. Using almost slave labour to do the dirty work, not having to pay living wages or benefits to certain employees sure can help. Also Military was compulsory after high school for males. Again, when you do not have to take care of 90% of the population, it's easy for those at the top to succeed.

You could say that it might still be easier if whites were in charge, but since they are such a minority in the country have a democratic society they will not get elected. So you get those elected into power who have no idea how to run an entire country, and yeah things go to shit. There is still such massive corruption in those countries. If you don't think that Robert Mugabe was not robbing Zimbabwe blind I don't know what to tell you. Jacob Zuma was not much better in South Africa. When you have such high levels of unemployment and someone to blame for it, the system won't work. It doesn't matter what ideology you are using. Capitalist or democratic socialism (which for some reason you seem to think is communism), it won't matter.

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So how did white People do it in Europe? And why didn’t black people do it in Africa? When the Dutch reached Cape Town in 1652....they found literally nothing resembling a civilization. No cities, no ports, no ships, no schools, no written language, no structures higher than two stories, nothing.

Back home Amsterdam and Rotterdam were major cities with beautiful cathedrals, waterways, canals, urban grids, universities, scientific institutions, hospitals, a thriving seafaring economy, etc.

You can’t blame Apartheid for South Africa’s contemporary woes. Without Apartheid, without whites...blacks wouldn’t even have what they inherited; the modern shining cities of Johannesburg, Cape Town, Pretoria, Durban and Bloemfontein.

They literally inherited the jewel of Africa. The same with Mugabe in Rhodesia...he turned it into Zimbabwe. You keep saying its corrupt politicians...but why are they corrupt and inept and the whites weren’t.

Ok so you say the whites exploited cheap black labor to build a modern nation...and there’s some truth to that. But I have to ask...where was the black labor before whites showed up? Why weren’t they building anything substantial before? Why did it take whites putting them to Organized work for a nation to take shape?

Also...if whites sat on their asses...now that blacks have largely pushed whites out...especially in Zimbabwe...why hasn’t that famed black work ethic not worked out to provide a better future?

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That is a totally different issue. Sure development was behind, but they didn't need it.

One of the problems that exists that isn't the nicest to talk about is you say they inherited all these modern wonders, but some didn't want it. I've heard more than once when infrastructure crumbles that it's the white persons problem so the white person should fix it.

You can't expect generations who have been denied education in the ways that the invading people think are best and expect things to run the way invading people think it should be run.

It's a very complicated situation. Perhaps Africa might have flourished on it's own in a completely different way. We don't know. But to just say that it doesn't work because of socialism is just wrong. I mentioned corruption because when talking about how socialism doesn't work, the argument is never about where it does work. Examples of countries with corruption all the way to the top and dictator type rulers can't really be compared to functioning democracies of the western world. Greece would be a much better situation to compare things to.

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They didn’t need it? No they didn’t know it...nobody Turns down higher standards of living...if that were the case African boat people wouldn’t be trying so hard to get into Europe.

White persons problem? Why because they built it? Well they didn’t destroy it...you can’t hold people who give you advancement responsible because you can’t maintain it.

No what you’re saying is they can’t maintain the high standards that whites implemented. Education notwithstanding. Where was their education beforehand?

I mean the Japanese and Koreans clearly could adopt and maintain white standards of development/modernization.

Where has Socialism worked? And don’t say Denmark or Sweden...they’re capitalist countries.

Socialism just makes a bad situation worse. You get Zimbabwe or Venezuela. The only reason South Africa hasn’t joined them yet is because it hasn’t gone full blown socialist like them. But I imagine it will...at some point.

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Neither socialism or capitalism exists purely any where in the world. Neither Venezuela or Zimbabwe were pure socialism, and both countries were rife with corruption. You can't just brush that off. It makes a huge difference. When programs aren't managed properly the system collapses.

Democratic socialism does work because they are a combination of capitalism with socialist protections for the people. Neither system works on it's own.

When I was mentioning about the problems, I asked you if you have been to South Africa for any amount of time? I'm referring to attitudes of the people. I have the privilege of never being part of an oppressed people. I cannot understand the attitudes that come from that. I don't understand the anger or why people would burn down a school, or not want to fix problems or even not wanting to move out of a shanty town. That doesn't mean that that isn't what is happening.

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I have Boer friends in South Africa, they tell me the stuff going down in real time. They’re all prepping to secede and form a separate country...because they can’t deal with the failure anymore and being blamed for it.

DemSoc only works in small homogeneous countries.

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I have lived in SA and still have family there. The country is a mess but I would never say that socialism was the problem.

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Expropriation without compensation is the very definition of socialism

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Democratic socialism?

give me some examples of democratic socialism that work.

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Boliva, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Great Britain, Canada, the Netherlands, Spain, Ireland, Belgium, Switzerland, Australia, Japan, and New Zealand.

I've said before no country on this planet is pure capitalism or pure socialism. I don't think either of those work on their own. These are countries that have a good combination of both, but have the emphasis on taking care of their citizens.

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None, NONE of those are socialist.

As all Americans you conflate socialism with social programs.

Those are purely capitalist with strong social programs, or so called social democracies.

I would love for the idiots to stop calling for socialism when they actually want welfare capitalism or social democracy. They are not the same, they will never be.

Learn your terms, use the proper terms and I will support it.

If you keep asking for socialism I will keep sending you in North Korea.

From Wiki: "Sweden is a competitive and highly liberalized, open market economy. The vast majority of Swedish enterprises are privately owned and market-oriented," - that is purely capitalist.

What you call "socialist" about those economies have nothing to do with socialism ... they are means of redistributing a part of wealth and providing some social security.

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First of all I'm not American.

Secondly, I live in one of those countries listed, so I may have an idea.

Thirdly, I said I've said before no country on this planet is pure capitalism or pure socialism. I don't think either of those work on their own. These are countries that have a good combination of both, but have the emphasis on taking care of their citizens.

There is a history of interchanging the titles of democratic socialism and social democracy. I'm not an economic expert by any means. Growing up I was taught in school that I lived in Democratic socialist country with a mixed economy. It is more capitalist now because governments have sold off some of their businesses to private companies, but that is not nationwide. If it is more along the lines of Social Democracy fine, but that wasn't what I was taught. A lot of Americans don't know the difference between Communism and Socialism either.

When it comes to AOC there seems to be this idea that she doesn't want any private companies at all, and I have not heard anything like that come out of her mouth.

Also, this conversation was about South Africa failing because it was socialist, which I have argued it isn't and that wasn't the cause of the failure.


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Ok, humor me: WHERE does socialism work???

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> So why was there no ineptitude before 1994? Why were the Boer and other whites able to build the most developed and industrialized nation in Africa?

It was an extractive slave state. How racist and arrogant can you get?

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Is that why blacks from surrounding “Free” countries were dying to get in? Or why it had the biggest black middle class in all of Africa? Despite not being the Most populous country in the continent?

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> Is that why blacks from surrounding “Free” countries were dying to get in?

So, any country, in order to BE GREAT AGAIN, must bring their country back down to the level that no one wants to come there anymore? You're a real genius.

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My point is, if it was so oppressive...why were blacks in countries with black majority rule trying to get into a country with white minority rule?

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Your stupidity revolves around the fact that you think they trying to get into the country because of white rule.

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No they were trying to get into a better developed country that was so because of white rule. They were willing to live under a government they scorned...because they knew their black run governments couldn’t provide the same level of service.

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No they were trying to get into a better developed country that was so because of white rule. They were willing to live under a government they scorned...because they knew their black run governments couldn’t provide the same level of service.

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Lmfao whites have all the political and economic power Dude: they own the majority of the wealth. 91% of SA CEOs are white. Stop kidding yourself. But as it is, SA still has a higher GDP than it did under Apartheid, and white people are even richer now. The Apartheid government was a bankrupt military state by the end of 80s, its amazing blacks were able to salvage anything by the 90s. Without Israeli support SA’s military would have collapsed by 1980 instead of 1990. The only reason the military was so powerful 40 years ago was because the government pumped money into it to subjugate anti-Apartheid protestors. In fact, the biggest problems with SA’s economy in the 80s was over-investment from the government. Apartheid was in reality a failed socialist state, and their whole system was anti-Free Market. You don’t realize you’re arguing with yourself;

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They post some racist, conservative drivel, then the rest of them descend and they all pat each other on the back and make up reasons why it is true, and extent the lies and jump on anyone who disagrees with them.

The wealth the white hold on to is the best land and all the resources of the country, so that the people who used to live off the land are impoverished and reduced to either slavery for the whites or trying to subsist on the worst resources that do not have the carrying power of a large population thrown off their land.

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Considering what happened in Zimbabwe...why would they want to give up their farms? Not that blacks aren’t trying to drive them off by killing white farmers. It’s more dangerous to be a white farmer in South Africa than a cop in most countries.

91% of CEO’s are white? Yeah they built those companies...why wouldn’t they be? It’s not their fault the black supremacist affirmative action programs like BBBEE are a complete failure. It’s not their fault ANC corruption has destroyed municipal services.

No South Africa was brought down by sanctions and embargoes...not because it became “bankrupt.” Yes there was Israeli cooperation...but it was a partnership...Israel got their part too. Their military was dominating the entire region, fighting Much more numerous Cubans and Soviets...and all the while under weapons embargoes. They became the only country in Africa with nuclear weapons and an indigenous military production program. Now Denel(think Lockheed Martin) can’t even pay the salaries Of its workers. The military is in serious decline, so is every institution that they inherited intact from the Boer. Airlines, utilities, entire municipalities even.

The only municipality that balances its books consistently is not surprisingly the town of Orania, an all Boer municipality. They pay their taxes and take no government funds whatsoever. And still manage to balance their books.

Whites are richer? Yeah you can thank the discriminatory laws of BBBEE, it forced them to become more entrepreneurial.

Same pattern everywhere. You naive Libs Would have us all live in Favelas, then everyone is equal in their collective misery. There is no magic dirt, no amount of social programs that will uplift an African to the level of a European or Japanese. Africa has had the equivalent of 5 Marshall plans Since the end of colonialism. South Africa got an immeasurable amount of politician and financial goodwill after 1994...and blew it.

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>> ...and blew it.

And that has nothing to do with white imperialism and domination? You should really learn about what you express strong opinions over. I mean learn the whole story, both sides, and all the history, not just the manicured fairy tales for the benefit of white racists.

OK, I understand the nonsense you are pushing and this will be my last comment to you on the subject. Your lies will not convince me, and I will not convince you actually learn something, so we are at an impasse.

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I just don’t want to live in a future Favela because guys like you think magic dirt theory exists.

Let me put it to you this way; if you moved all the population of Haiti; roughly 12 million people to some other country and moved in 12 million Japanese into Haiti...in 25 years it would be a thriving country and the richest one in the Caribbean. Then if the Japanese moved back home and the Haitians inherited the newly built Haiti....in a couple of generations it would be the trash heap that it is today. The people make the country...not the other way around.

Japan in 1945 was in utter ruin, the victim of two atomic bombs....and in 19 years they were hosting the Olympics in 1964. Afghanistan has had 20 years of American aid pumped into its economy and its still a God awful mess, despite all that mineral wealth. Japan is resource poor and still a very rich country...can you imagine what they’d be like if they had Afghanistan’s underground wealth?

Just admit that some people and their cultures do it better. When you accept that...a lot of space is freed up in your mind.

You won’t uplift Nigerians by forcing Estonia to take them in...you’ll just be dragging down the Estonians. And they just wouldn’t appreciate it.

Some people are more capable than others...and that is true more than just on the individual scale...it’s true on the cultural/collective one too.

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Take a Math Class, specifically Differential Equations, and then think about what "k" means, i.e. Initial Conditions. Otherwise, don't bug me with simple racist hate theories junior.

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Look at Zimbabwe and how they changed after the white flight.

That should give you enough hints ...

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Forget it they’ll never learn. Only when it hits them in the face will they think back and say “those awful racists were right.” By then it’ll be too late.

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Get used to this nutcase. This is how it will go down. Biden will not run in 2024. Harris will be at the top of the ticket. She will pick AOC as her running mate. Don't think they could not win. Liberals across the country would love that ticket.

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Pathetic how she had to blame the US for her Communist buddies oppressing the Cuban people.

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It is simply because Cuba does business with other countries all over the world.

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South Africa and Cuba, all great nations to aspire to. They're all so equal because black people are running the show. Everyone is equal in misery and poverty. Isn't life grand? True equality and equity assured. I'd live there but why live there when I can work hard to bring it here. Of course once I bring it here I will have to move to yet other Capitalist nations so I too can bring it there as well. It is hard work to destroy Western Capitalist nations. When my work is finally done, I will move to Finland and retire. What? I should move to Cuba or South Africa? Why? Silly you, that's the whole point of my subversion as an adversarial secret spy agent for the communist cause.

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Finland? You mean Israel lol

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You're perpetuating the problem when you allow slaves to be brought into the US to undercut Americans and reduce the middle class to nothing. Business is the one wants all that immigration. Now it has gone far enough and their plan to divide the American population and throw them at each other has succeeded so they have a dead unresponsive government, and they own the media, and can dole out jobs only to sycophants, the US has become kind of the slave states, and American citizens are the Indians in their own country getting genocided, and are so lazy and thoughtless they actually think that voting for the very people who caused all of this is the solution.

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I always find it hilarious that people like her who support communism (don't sugar-coat it, you know that's what it is, socialism or not) are often very well-off financially and sometimes have more homes than your average American does. I mean, this airhead has a yearly salary of 120K a year, more than three times what your normal American earns at any one time. And let's not forget, she lives in a very upscale neighborhood in an apartment building that is not environmentally "green" in any sense of the word. Her only saving grace is that she's chosen not to have any children, and has already improved the gene pool exponentially.

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Amen

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Now if only she could win a Darwin Award >:) I'd pay to see that.

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