I still dont get what he did wrong , but I found this https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-charges-conviction-guilty-verdict/ To be charged as a felony, prosecutors must also show that the offender intended to "commit another crime" or "aid or conceal" another crime when falsifying records.
In Trump's case, prosecutors said that other crime was a violation of a New York election law that makes it illegal for "any two or more persons" to "conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means,"
Now , who can tell me in what way did Trump "conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office " ?
The crime was actually him running as a Republican instead of the Party he'd donated to his entire career and the Democrats are bitter over it.. The Real Question should be: In 2015, if Trump decided to run for President on the Democrat side, would you have supported him and mind you, this is prior to this nonsense we just saw for the last several weeks along with the 2 impeachments for simply not liking the man?? 🤔
well , I think Trump is wholly incompetent and would be a detriment to any public office he was elected to.
This would cause a dilemma if he was the only choice for a party I wanted to vote for.
I'd have to weigh how detrimental him being elected would be vs how bad it would be if the other party got in.
And to be honest I'd probably change sides to try to keep him out.
Not because I hate him , because in my opinion he's a moron with nothing to offer , cannot tell the truth to save his life , and is the biggest narcissist on the planet, making him completely unsuitable for office.
You could say those things apply to many politicians , but not to the level he takes them to.
Its like he is made from extracting the worst qualities from other politicains and amplifying them exponentially.
BUT in spite of that I can see that this current trial is political witch hunt that he doesent deserve.
Many many people are "let off with a warning" for all manner of not serious crimes every day.
This crime is so insignificant nobody can actually tell me what it is.
So .. $20 fine maybe?
Like I said in the OP the only reason this has been bumped up to felony is because apparently it amounts to rigging an election.
If you ask me the notion that Trump keeping Stormy affair quiet is "Election interference" is ludicrous.
No politician is obliged to make public their porn star liaisons , or any other skeletons in the closet public under pain of "Election rigging felony charge" if they dont.
Trump didn't use his own money (When does he ever?). He used money donated to get him to get elected. If he'd asked for money from his supporters to give to porn actresses, this might have been different.
So in effect, he's used the election to obtain funding to conceal something that isn't materially related to the election except that Trump chose to run in it. You could argue that if he wasn't running for office then he would not have felt compelled to conceal it. But he didn't need to run for office either. And didn't need to solicit donations to his election campaign fund. (Not "deception campaign fund")
If what you say is true, a politician could take campaign donations and pay off gambling debts with it, and it would be ok, even if they tried to lie about the nature of this transaction, since a politician has no obligation to publicly settle their wagers either.
The law here seems to be managing to stop politicians from easily lying their way into office. Instead of being encouraged by that, some are indignant that not all politicians get away with it. Like it's un-American for those caught to face consequences just because you suspect that all politicians are guilty of it to some degree.
One of the narratives around Watergate was - It's nothing but a third rate burglary attempted by over zealous and ill judged operators and it requires nothing like the scrutiny and the "withchunt" being exercised in its name. The investigation uncovered not only illegal surveillance, but blatant interference with the FBI, DOJ and the CIA, and the funneling of donations to an election fund to orchestrate dirty tricks against people critical of US involvement in Vietnam and other things like desperately seeking connections between students killed or beaten at peace marches with criminal activity.
Nixon and virtually his entire close staff, including his secretary, felt compelled to lie and give Dick an excuse for, among other things, certain parts of certain tapes being erased "accidentally". Patriotically, of course.
From my POV, the token resistance to evidence presented in the case indicates that certain people want to avoid further scrutiny in the areas that Trump has been convicted. The money given to Daniels is the tip of an iceberg of donations, most of which were probably used legitimately and not fraudulently. But the idea that she was the biggest spend of that nature seems far fetched.
"conceal something that isn't materially related to the election"
Thens how come they used this exact thing to bump this non existent crime from misdemeanor to Felony?
Also that figure is literally peanuts to Trump - why would he steal it from his campaign fund unless it was merely an oversight.
Also never once in all these news stories have I heard the words "Campaign fund" so are you sure we're barking up the right tree here ?
Because that's the bed Donald made to lie on by a) running in the election b) fraudulently using funds to conceal info from the electorate.
Why wouldn't Trump steal? He's done nothing with his own money ever. Where are you getting that he would pay it out of his own pocket in a heartbeat? Precedent? How the hell could he use donations just as an oversight?
I haven't read your article. If it was his own money, would he need to conceal it, except for tax purposes?
Do you honestly think that Donald would ethically get his wallet out instead of using campaign funds for something that he thought crucial to his campaign?
He wanted to conceal it for the same reason he wanted to conceal the whole stormy thing , wether it be because of his marriage, the campaign , or just people's opinion of him generally.
And another thing - who says this ISNT a legitimate campaign expense?
And another thing a presidential campaign costs in the order of a billion dollars - to argue about where 130k of it went (or came from ) is ludicrous - they probably spent more than that on cream for the coffee. ( not a defence as such i know but like I said , I cant find anything to corroborate that this is about "campaign funds" )
Don't underestimate how cheap a billionaire can be. It doesn't make sense to us bc why not use your own money and avoid the problem altogether? Trump's standard operating procedure was to get one over on everyone as much as possible. "Penny wise, pound foolish" comes to mind.
JoWilli (16011) 15 minutes ago SAID>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Now , who can tell me in what way did Trump "conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office " ?
I cant. and I have no idea what the crime was. if this was an actual crime then Trump would have been indicted in 2017."
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You still can't figure this out? Trump did not want the public, especially his followers, to know he had a trist with an adult film star. This news coming out right before the 2016 election would have been a disaster (in Trump's own words". Gee.......how to cover this up??????? Hmmmmm. Trump and his cronies hatched a plan to pay off the adult film star to keep her trap shut. Part of that plan was to falsify business records to hide the hush money Stormy Daniels was paid. Paying off the adult film star is NOT the crime. Falsifying business records, in the State of NY, is the crime. There is physical evidence for this derailed plan that was shown to the jury. They understand what Trump did was against the law, a felony in fact. Actually, 34 felonies. Got it now?
Trump is a convicted felon........34 times. His adoring fans are starting to see what a dirt bag he is and has been for decades.
Falsifying business records is a misdemeanor, but if it is done in furtherance of another crime, it becomes a felony.
Bragg did not specify in the indictment what the other crime was, but later highlighted several laws he said were potentially applicable, including New York state election law that prohibits conspiracies to promote a candidacy by unlawful means; laws that prohibit false statements, including statements that were planned to be made to tax authorities; and federal election contribution limits.
"This was a planned, coordinated, long-running conspiracy to influence the 2016 election, to help Donald Trump get elected through illegal expenditures, to silence people who had something bad about his behavior," prosecutor Matthew Colangelo argued in court. "It was election fraud, pure and simple."
if it was an actual crime, then Trump would have been indicted in 2017. dems purposely waited til an election year to falsely accuse Trump and then had a sham trial in a blue state with a blue DA and with a blue Judge and with blue jurors. the DOJ was also present during the trial and was at the press conference with Bragg. basically, this was an attempt by Biden to subvert democracy and rig the 2024 election. if you remove the opposing candidate then we are no better than China or North Korea.
Mueller also concluded there was no election fraud and Trump won fair and square. Obama said our elections are unhackable. dems would call this the Big Lie.