Most conservatives are overwhelmingly Christian. Christians believe that the innocent and pure go straight to heaven. If fetuses haven't committed any sins and aren't even aware of the world yet, they're innocent and pure. So an aborted fetus goes straight to heaven. Big whoop, what's the deal? If anything atheists should hate abortions because that consciousness has no heaven to go to.
shareIf the aborted baby goes to Heaven . . . It would actually be ‘merciful’ for a parent to abort their child rather than to allow it to grow up and it doesn’t become a Christian, because they believe that their child will spend an ETERNITY in Hell for being a nonbeliever.
That is how fecked up Christianity is.
Liberals hate it, they just put all the blame on men and abnegate women's predicament
Conservatives believe in the capital system to do justice, if not the natural process
Because they're used to often as more of a form of Birth Control and the lazy way of trying to be careful as opposed to going to a Doctor responsibly to have the Pill prescribed or purchase a box of Magnums Extra Ribbed.. I'm Catholic and Pro-Life, but I will say that if I were Married and my wife and I were going to have a baby and during delivery, something happened and there was a very good possibility of losing my wife if the fetus wasn't aborted, I would do it and any true Catholic who's Pro-Life says otherwise are lying and full of shit..
shareIf you are applying that logic then you need to be consistent. Every medical procedure that is intended to improve or maintain a patient's quality of life should be opposed if the patient could have taken more care not to be afflicted with their condition in the first place.
That's like saying that it should be lawful and have no consequence to choose to kill someone when there's a good possibility of them unwittingly or accidentally threatening the life of someone else in an accident. Regardless of age.
Also who decides what minimum amount of care needs to be taken before a pregnancy can be legitimately terminated? What if you lose your income and health benefits during pregnancy through no fault of your own and can no longer afford to raise a child? How certain do you need to be that pregnancy won't be life threatening?
Personally I feel that anyone who compartmentalises "innocent", lawful terminations and "lazy" and unlawful ones is full of shit.
Those are two of the most terrible examples you could have come up with.
The shooting one i just dont understand , you could have gone with self inflicted smoking maybe .
And the "Abortion in case you lose your livelihood in 4 months after conception" ?
What happens if that same disaster strikes in the following 18 years ?
Is that unfair? Would you like the law to be tailored to only accommodate the terrible examples that should be exceptions? How exactly do you legislate "laziness" in not ensuring successful contraception.
I never said anything about shooting so I don't know what you are talking about.
I'm guessing you're maybe talking about my response to the "abortion is ok if there is a good chance that the mother of my child won't survive delivery" loophole. Basically saying "I would like the choice to abort a fetus, a person in my eyes under all other circumstances, but one it's lawful to kill if there's a good chance the beginning of my baby's life outside the womb is, through no fault on the baby's behalf, also the end of my wife's life." What if, as a father, you don't want that choice or decline the option? Dose the mother get to decide independently? Maybe just leave the choice of life and death to the mother it directly affects. Under all circumstances.
We aren't talking about aborting a pregnancy after 18 years, so that question is staggeringly irrelevant.
I think with BKB giving balanced opinions from both sides of the debate, its upset the flow of angry back n forth and know i dont know which either of us is on.
We have both misinterpreted the posts we replied to i think .
or maybe just i have .
I don't agree that it's balanced. It just retains its essential sexist idea of too much freedom for too many women, tempered with a specific scenario that excuses not risking the "very good possibility" of his wife's life being threatened. Even if BKB doesn't know or care, it undermines the fundamental idea that a fetus is a person and it is therefore murder. The scenario that BKB permits implies that murder of a defenseless, innocent person is acceptable depending on the percentages, or the odds he can get on his wife surviving the delivery of their child.
In fact the admission that it is actually about women's behaviour in getting pregnant that is the issue, it exposes the position of being against "killing" fetuses to be hollow posturing. As hollow as it is, some figures showing that no lawful abortions leads to a low unwanted pregnancy rate might justify its use as a deterrent. But of course, we live in reality where those rates don't exist.
BKB SAID:...... BKB (6078) 7 days ago
"Because they're used to often as more of a form of Birth Control and the lazy way of trying to be careful as opposed to going to a Doctor responsibly to have the Pill prescribed or purchase a box of Magnums Extra Ribbed.. I'm Catholic and Pro-Life, but I will say that if I were Married and my wife and I were going to have a baby and during delivery, something happened and there was a very good possibility of losing my wife if the fetus wasn't aborted, I would do it and any true Catholic who's Pro-Life says otherwise are lying and full of shit."
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BKB......this is one of the most honest comments I have read from you. Thank you for being so candid and truthful. Personally I am and have been for many years, pro choice although I am conservative.
It's child sacrifice and the destruction of innocent life.
You should be grateful that your parents were not pro-murder.
If my parents aborted me I wouldn’t feel anything . . .
shareSo you regret your existence?
shareHe's right though. Had I been aborted I would not have felt or remembered a single thing.
shareSo you hate your life so much that you would have been OK if it had been aborted?
How do you know that you would not have felt anything?
There seems to be a disconnect here. If my consciousness didn't exist how would I feel something?
shareAnd how do you know that your consciousness didn't exist?
shareThat's one of the stupidist posts I've read today. You can recover if you show your evidence that the 2020 election was rigged. If you release your proof that Trump won in 2020 then he would be reinstated as president and we wouldn't be sitting in a courtroom facing 34 felonies. What are you waiting for?
shareThat's a weird question from a guy whose position depends on the supposed knowledge that a person exists the day their mother's egg is fertilised.
sharehow do you know? when is life created in the womb? 1 week? 6 months? when the baby is born?
just because someone makes a law that says a 6 week fetus doesn't have a soul and spirit is cynical to life.
Did I say anything about when life was created?
That's a weird question from a guy whose position depends on the supposed knowledge that a person exists the day their mother's egg is fertilised.
And yet, no one can prove that it doesn't exist.
Btw, I noticed that no one has answered my previous question.
And yet, nobody cares about your two avoidance questions. The first of which is about consciousness because someone suggested the notion of a miserable and thankless life and you are, like your attempt to put the equation of pregnancy and ruined life into my mouth, attempt to impose the strawman that consciousness is being called a curse.
shareI know there isnt. but mankind created a law for people to legally terminate their child. what if the supreme court passed a law that says you can legally terminate your baby up to 6 months after birth, would you support it?
just because humans create laws for life or death, it doesn't make it right.
I used to be pro death penalty but now I am against, who are we to decide who lives and dies?
I do ponder my existence. why am I here. whats my purpose? do I just get to live for X number of years and thats it?
I do know that someday we will all die and then you will find out if God and Heaven or Hell is real.
"What if they made a law.......?"
Just making up laws as a strawman argument is pretty weak.
Lets stick to the law we're discussing that allows PREGNANCY to be terminated.
ok, when does pregnancy happen and at what point in the pregnancy does the fetus have life? when is the appropriate time in a pregnancy to get an abortion? 1 week? 6 weeks? 20 weeks? 40 weeks?
share"Appropriate"?
You're horsetrading to safeguard your notions of propriety now because you realise that arbitrary opposition to abortion is not based on propriety at all.
I don't have a medical opinion. You would need to ask the doctors who do or don't perform terminations up to each of those terms and why.
You make it sound like unrestricted availability of 40 week terminations is the goal of pro-choice. Like your dangling a carrot in front of us.
I'll venture that if it was discovered that the alternative is the mother's death then a 40 week is termination would be appropriate in the opinion of most doctors. In the infinitesimally small number of cases where that would be the option.
you keep circumventing my question if life begins in the womb and when is the appropriate time for an abortion.
does life begin at conception or birth? some believe that life begins when the baby exits the womb and starts breathing on its own.
the problem is that liberal women are using abortion as birth control and not taking responsibility for their own actions.
Did I say life begins in the womb?
I didn't say anything about life beginning. I'm talking about a person existing.
the problem is that liberal women are using abortion as birth control and not taking responsibility for their own actions.
oh ok, we all exist after we are born. at what age did you realize you existed and had consciousness?
if a women goes out and regularly gets banged by random guys and gets pregnant. whose is responsible for that? its called taking responsibility for your actions. these kind of stories were on Jerry Springer every day.
men have no rights when it comes to wanting a woman have abortion or not. remember My Body My Choice.
Maybe Jewsor Mormons or Hindus are right and you’ve spent your life worshipping the wrong god.
shareprobably not, I have had things happen in my life that cannot be explained other than God interceded and helped me.
shareThey would say the same about the gods they worship, yet somehow, you’ve got the ‘right’ one? What if on the day of judgement you have to stand before THEIR god? Do you spend a lot of time worrying about that? That is about as much time as a non Christian spends worrying about your god.
sharefair point but I will stick with my God.
also when people swear they curse the Abrahamic God and Jesus. how come you never hear anyone cursing the hindu god or muhammad or any other deity? if God and Jesus are not real then why do people use their names as curse words?
also when something bad happens people say it was an act of God. you will never hear anyone blame the hindu elephants when there is a natural disaster.
When people curse, they usually use the god of their culture. France is mostly Catholics so they will say "sacré bleu" Which in our language is a reference to Jesus' mother Mary, (sacred blue). The Greeks would refer to Zeus and the Norse to Oden. It exists in some cultures and not others sort of like how Mexican/Spanish people will use the name Jesus but our culture doesn't do that.
People do refer to their gods when there is a natural disaster. You just aren't exposed to cultures that have other gods.
I am referring to modern times. most all gentiles in the world use God or Jesus as curse words. it has been common place to hear it in movies and tv shows for years now.
do you think that Indians curse vishnu when they stub their toe or in movies?
do people in Iran or Saudi Arabia regularly say muhammad damnit?
so I found this on my oven warranty.
Damages caused by: services performed by unauthorized service companies; use of parts other than
genuine Electrolux parts or parts obtained from persons other than authorized service companies; or
external causes such as abuse, misuse, inadequate power supply, accidents, fires, or ***acts of God.***
if God isnt real then why do companies blame God when something bad happens?
American money has In God we trust on it. as we lose faith in God so goes our humanity.
I just explained that it is part of our culture to use God and Jesus in our linguistics.
Because your oven manufacturer uses an old phrase ‘acts of God’,which is really weird, I can’t imagine that being on a warranty . . . Does not mean that they are actually talking about God. It is Colloquialism.
American money should not have inGod we trust on it, it was added by religious people who were in power. As far as losing faith in God means we are losing humanity that is demonstrably false. We are far less religious in America these days and our violent crime has dropped dramatically.
"I just explained that it is part of our culture to use God and Jesus in our linguistics."
ok my bad if I misinterpreted what you said. but that is my point. why is it part of our culture to curse God and Jesus?
yes, it would be referring to the Hebrew God.
https://pdf.lowes.com/productdocuments/3c2a9fa1-398f-40db-ba13-925a7aab918a/60781414.pdf
Is an act of God covered by homeowners insurance?
Many standard homeowners insurance policies cover damage from natural disasters, which means hurricanes, tornados and lightning storms can be covered. Act of God events caused by floods or earthquakes are not covered under standard homeowners insurance policies.
basically people are saying that its God's fault. even non-believers will blame God when something bad happens. but then you see football players thanking God when they score a touchdown.
I think we are losing our humanity even with all our advanced technology. billions is spent on the preparation of war and for war. could you imagine how much better peoples lives would be if that money was spent on us?
violent crime is down because it was at a all time high just 3 years ago. 2 people are murdered every day in Chicago. its becoming normal for child genital mutilation. men who think they are women can play in womens sports. no college kids are protesting the Ukrainian genocide. kids in school are more likely to be killed in school than anywhere else. kids are being brainwashed by social media.
suppose you were inside a reproduction clinic and it caught fire, and the time you had available were enough to either save yourself and a 5 years old child OR save yourself and a container containing 5000 human embryos.
Are you fucking tell me you would even think about what the right thing to do was?
tvfan SAID:(8414) 7 days ago
It's child sacrifice and the destruction of innocent life.
You should be grateful that your parents were not pro-murder.
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Don't be so dramatic. Murder is not the proper accusation when dealing with a NON VIABLE fetus.
Aren't you grateful that your parents didn't consider you a NON VIABLE fetus?
shareMurder the child. Harvest the flesh. Make cures for the rich. Make the plebs pay for it.
shareActual infanticide and premature infant death is reduced where termination is available.
Perhaps conservatives prefer it the other way round.
Regardless of what conservatives think....
One believes this is how it should be...
A decision 100% totally up to the female involved. It's her body, her life.
Totally her call because she is the one that will have to live with it.
It isn't anyone else's business.
But It's not just her life. An innocent life is growing inside her. Why is it 'her call' to sacrifice and murder innocent life.
shareYou don't give a shit about children once they are born. How many unwanted children have you adopted or fostered? That would be zero. Then you want to eliminate programs that would directly benefit these unwanted children like SNAP, WIC, school lunches, medical care, housing, etc. Why do you hate children so much?
shareWell, you can go back and forward on this until the end of time.
One understands your point - but I respectfully disagree.
The female involved, it's her body, her life, her fetus, growing inside of her womb.
No one but her should decide what to do.
You repeat an old slogan from the 'abortion industry cult'.
She is not the owner of another life. It doesn't belong to her just because she is temporarily carrying it.
Not repeating anything.
Only my personal belief in what one does with their own body is their business, no one else's.
You have your opinion, I have mine.
Apparently we disagree. Fine, no problem. Best wishes to you all the same.
Why is it your call that two people's lives must be potentially ruined?
shareBecasue that is the way the very concept of law and society works. YOu don't get to do whatever you want.
That kind of behavior went out of fashion about the time they first got together in a big group to hunt a mastodon.
You're talking about wanting to not carry a child to term. Sorry, but society does not get to dictate the minimum number of children you must give birth to. Chalking that up to "how society works" is lazy in the extreme. What you mean is that if that is the law and you defy it then you are a criminal and at the mercy of the courts. That's how society works if that is the law. That's like saying no drink at 20 years old. That's how society works. Except if society is in a different country with different laws like it's legal to drink alcohol at 17 or 18.
shareYour refusal to be honest about what is happening, ie "dictate min number of children",
is you admitting that you know that I am right.
Having a child does not equate to a ruined life.
Did you ruin your parents life?
I did not equate it to a ruined life. I said potentially ruined lives. One of them from the moment it began. At birth.
shareBackpedaling? and deflecting with sophistry ... Shocker!
shareRepeating what I said and which you ignored and rewrote is categorically not "backpedaling" or "sophistry".
A parrot can repeat what it and others have said. I doubt you would credit it would sophistry though.
And yet, you failed to provide a direct answer.
shareWhy would I provide an answer to your non-sequitur and strawman?
shareIt was a fair question and related to your statement, but nice deflection ... again. lol
shareAsking you to find out how many Schmidts there are in the Vienna phone book would be an equally fair question. And it has as much to do with what I said as your avoidance question about parents ruining their child's life. That is not what we are discussing.
We are talking about people forced by law to carry and raise children they can't afford and haven't got the support, financial or otherwise, that they require to give themselves and their child a decent, basic standard of life.
Then you should have stated that to begin with.
And my response to you was about your statement of ruined lives.
[–] Martoto (4115) 6 hours agoshare
Why is it your call that two people's lives must be potentially ruined?
Why would I need to state that? This thread is about the abortion laws and freedoms. Why would I need to talk about pregnancies and births where abortion, whether it was available or not, was not involved or considered as a factor in any way?
That's not a statement. It's a question. It's asking why your attitude towards the perceived "laziness" of a person means you get to dictate that they, for example, are required to be at least as shitty a being a parent as they were in avoiding getting into that situation, and condemning the child to being raised by a parent that you believe is irresponsible enough to be denied a termination and forced to do one of the hardest things there is to do right.
That's so ludicrously perverse. Spiting someone with the burden, risk and responsibility of parenthood because they weren't careful enough in their recreation. And spiting the unborn child who you claim to protect with a shitty deal from the moment it's brought into the world.
And if it goes really badly, the person you tried to spite doesn't take the burden. And that burden is passed onto others.
If the worst comes to the worst though, premature death for the infant at least might reduce that burden.
And so it goes.
Because it's a political agenda. They believe that it will be beneficial to the country by supporting and raising a child, which could have numerous impacts on finances and such. A better question would be why would they want to pass laws on contraceptives and birth control? That's why.
shareIt comes down to education, poverty and choice. Or class, effectively. Most unwanted pregnancies arise in the context of a lack of education and poverty. Having no choice to terminate means having no choice to escape poverty and the cycle being repeated and imposed on the product of that situation. Another child inheriting a debit in wealth and education.
A certain class sees all their choices deserving freedom and approval. While the choices of those of a different class are restricted to ensure they do not break out of that class and have the same freedoms that others have "earned".
Was your birth a blessing or a curse?
share