MovieChat Forums > Kevin Costner Discussion > This Costner Guy Is a Little Bit Crazy

This Costner Guy Is a Little Bit Crazy

posted 8 months ago by roger1 (4046)
9 replies | jump to latest

..and I like him as a movie star and I like a lot of his movies.

But consider:

Back in the 80's, he was famously cast as "the guy who commits suicide"(for one flashback only) in The Big Chill, and director Lawrence Kasdan had to cut his scene. Two interesting things about that: (1) They HAD to cut the scene because everybody is always TALKING about this now-dead guy and SEEING him(played by an unknown) , he could never live up to the talk and (2) in the years since The Big Chill came out...Kevin Costner became a MUCH bigger star than all of the actors who DID star in The Big Chill.

So because Kasdan had to cut Costner out of The Big Chill in 1983, he did Costner a solid and gave him one of the four Western hero leads in Silverado(1985) and Costner was on his way. Kasdan's pal Steven Spielberg put Costner in a Spielberg-directed episode of Spielberg's "Amazing Stories."

The summer of 1987 REALLY put Costner on the map. In the same summer, he had the huge action hit The Untouchables and the solid "sex hit" No Way Out(with a great thriller plot, Gene Hackman as a co-lead and again, a truly sexual sex scene that established Costner "for the lady fans.)

Costner's script choices were mostly very good and very offbeat. He refused to do any sequels. And he got these hits in a row..(less one bomb, more on it later).

1988: Bull Durham (baseball movie)
1989: Field of Dreams (ANOTHER baseball movie)
1990: Dances With Wolves(Hit, Best Picture Oscar, Best Director Oscar for Costner)
1991: Robin Hood(miscast but didn't matter) in the summer; JFK in the fall.
1992: The Bodyguard

It was an incredible run , plus the Oscar wins for Dances With Wolves(Hitchcock never won Best Director; Costner won with his first film). The one flop in those years was "Revenge" but it came out in the Dances With Wolves year of 1990.

But then things started to "shift" for Costner.

The suggestion is that, with all that Oscar gold -- for a very LONG serious movie -- things started going to Costner's head. He had these overpriced, overlong flops:

Wyatt Earp(undercut by Tombstone -- and Costner didn't give nearly the screen time to HIS great Doc Holliday -- Dennis Quaid -- and Tombstone gave to ITS Doc Holliday -- Val Kilmer.

Waterworld(its good enough, if a bit too "Mad Maxy" but it went WAY over budget and schedule, a near "Heaven's Gate" of a studio disaster -- evidently done on purpose by the studio to fend off a sale OF the studio.)

The Postman -- evidently no redeeming qualities at all, overlong, a flop.

As happens in Hollywood, those three "flops" poisoned Kevin Costner's reputation and despite all his first hits -- he was "sent down" an unable to get the best material, for years.

After The Postman, Costner worked a lot, but rarely in major movies, rarely in big hits. He still did some good work from good scripts -- Open Range was a great Western, and he was in a good thriller with Big Chill alum William Hurt in the thriller "Mr. Brooks." He did little movies like "McFarland, USA" and "Draft Day." He couldn't bring back that superstar traction. He got old(if remaining quite good looking -- he'd been compared to Steve McQueen when he was young, now we got to see how Steve McQueen might have looked old -- McQueen died at 50.)

He did straight to streaming movies like "Let Him Go" and "The Highwayman."

As recently as 2017, Costner was "name" enough to provide solid support to Jessica Chastain in Aaron Sorkin's well written Molly's Game. But Costner was still "a past superstar coasting on his name in supporting roles."

And then came Yellowstone. It debuted in 2018. And though it was for a streamer you have to pay for (Paramount Plus), it was still "Kevin Costner stars in a TV series." Evidently Robert Redford had accepted the part but something went wrong and Costner got it. And newfound stardom. And newfound fans. And a big hit. And superstar pay again.

The first time Kevin Costner got married and divorced he said "I want to get married again, but I don't want to get divorced again." Unfortunately, he did both again and the divorce hit just as his Yellowstone stardom was peaking...and we all found out even if he'd been "second tier" since 2000..he was still very rich.

And then he quit Yellowstone.

So far so good but comes now...Horizon. Big screen . Four movies. Largely paid for by Costner himself and...

...what do you know? It MIGHT be the 90s all over again for Costner. He IS kind of crazy -- driven by his own private muse, about ready to take all his massive "second time around success" and to sacrifice it on the altar of overlong movies that people don't want to see. Wyatt Earp and The Postman all over again.

Maybe. But maybe not.

[–] Callahan7 (1204) 7 months ago

His life and career have not been perfect. Has yours?

[–] roger1 (4046) 7 months ago

His life and career have not been perfect. Has yours?

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Oh, heavens no...but...

...part of what movie stars -- as an interesting mix of "God-like" and "business moguls" bring to the table is our interest in how they do what they do and who they rather turn out to be. Perhaps they give US some guidance about how to survive on a certain scale in our own lives. That's why we study them and their careers and comment on them, I think. And it is interesting to see which ones "go the distance"(Jack Nicholson) versus which ones don't (Burt Reynolds.)

Costner's story as a movie star is actually at a "higher level of achievement" than of the usual action star type movie star.

He stated, for instance, early on, that he would never make a sequel to one of his films. He liked "stand alone projects." Its hard to think which of his movies COULD have generated a sequel -- Robin Hood? The Bodyguard?(and hey, I think he DID say he might make a sequel with Princess Diana as an actress but...she died.)

So he had this great run of well-reviewed films that included "all hits" from The Untouchables through The Bodyguard...less Revenge.

Fandango
Silverado
The Untouchables
No Way Out
Bull Durham
Field of Dreams
Revenge
Dances With Wolves
Robin Hood
JFK
The Bodyguard

It was his Best Picture and Best Director Oscars for Dances With Wolves that seemed to demosntrate that Costner had an "artist's ego and drive" -- as he said "I like to make my movies long" -- and he rather crashed on the shoals of Wyatt Earp(bested by Tombstone), Waterworld, and The Postman.

But he was so BIG during that first run that he remained a name(if less highly paid) for decades -- and eventually got Yellowstone for a full comeback.

Which is where the crazy comes in: Horizon. Maybe a GOOD kind of crazy. Costner is willing to toss his Yellowstone comeback rather away for a "return to the days of Wyatt Earp and The Postman." Maybe.

We STUDY that kind of career, that kind of creative mind.

CONT

[–] roger1 (4046) 7 months ago

Note in passing: shortly before Yellowstone revived him, Costner leant his considerable history as a star(and aging good looks -- BETTER looks than his younger years in some ways) to very good supporting work in two moderate hits -- Hidden Figures and Molly's Game. I remember liking him in both films and thinking: "he's not really the star of this but he is giving it a full dose OF his stardom."

So I'm a fan.

But I still think he's kinda crazy.

His "blunt" interview on Howard Stern to promote Horizon rather proved it to me. Again.

[–] maximmm (3405) 7 months ago

Maybe not, based on the reviews so far.
But the revival of his career as a leading man with Yellow Stone was somewhat miraculous.

It's also worth mentioning that, looking at the review scores of his films after postman, I'd say he fared quite well, even if he was often delegated to the supporting role.

Horizon may actually undo most of the goodwill garnered with Yellowstone - especially given his plans to make 4 instead of just 1. During the Yellowstone negotiations with Paramount for future seasons, he was offered less money per episode than in prior seasons - he offered to work for a lower wage, but not as low as Paramount wanted - in the end, I suspect he said f#$# it and figured he could pursue a passion project instead and make a whole lot more money in the process - much like he did with Dances with Wolves. It looks like that plan is backfiring in a major way. It's unfortunate - but I guess that's life.

[–] roger1 (4046) 7 months ago

But the revival of his career as a leading man with Yellow Stone was somewhat miraculous.

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It really was. In the "olden days" when the movie business(theatrical film) and TV business(network TV with commercials) were at extremely different levels of respect, "Kevin Costner doing a TV series" would have been a step DOWN. But this is today -- "streaming" is where a lot of movie stars stay respected. Netflix is where they get paid MORE than some movies pay. And Yellowstone as a "Paramount Plus" production was meant to launch that network much as House of Cards with Kevin Spacey helped Netflix.

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It's also worth mentioning that, looking at the review scores of his films after postman, I'd say he fared quite well, even if he was often delegated to the supporting role.

--

True. I can't say that the titles or reviews for "Swing Vote" or "Draft Day" drew me to see them(I didn't) but in Hidden Figures and Molly's Game(in "star support roles") Costner was fine. And all those supporting roles seemed to keep him quite rich.

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CONT

[–] roger1 (4046) 7 months ago

Horizon may actually undo most of the goodwill garnered with Yellowstone - especially given his plans to make 4 instead of just 1. During the Yellowstone negotiations with Paramount for future seasons, he was offered less money per episode than in prior seasons - he offered to work for a lower wage, but not as low as Paramount wanted - in the end, I suspect he said f#$# it and figured he could pursue a passion project instead and make a whole lot more money in the process - much like he did with Dances with Wolves. It looks like that plan is backfiring in a major way. It's unfortunate - but I guess that's life.

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All true and well said. But key to all this is the very interesting star that Kevin Costner is: "Could do no wrong" from 1987 through 1992 -- plus Oscars for Best Picture and Director(Costner) for Dances With Wolves. 20 plus years in the wilderness, but always working. And then Yellowstone. And now Horizon. Add in his very public recent divorce(where Costner was revealed to be QUITE rich despite working smaller movies and support) and -- he has fulfilled his "public duty as a star" to generate all sorts of internet articles about his TV show, his movies and his romantic life. (Costner is a BOOST to internet movie articles right now.)

One more thing which I suspect: Costner's most major hits had very good scripts -- intelligent, deep , offbeat. He seemed to be a "quality control" man on scripts. (Burt Reynolds eventually wasn't, stuff like Cannonball Run and Stroker Ace killed his career.) I have a feeling that Costner in some ways thinks that the "soap opera"(his words) story line of Yellowstone was beneath him in some way.

And from what I've read(and I've only seen a couple of episodes) Costner started rebelling at playing too much of a VILLAIN. He'd usually been a major hero on the screen. Evidently being assigned to follow in the footsteps of Tony Soprano and Walter White distressed him. But I guess he also quit Yellowstone over...low pay?

[–] moviechatterer (16316) 7 months ago

Waterworld(its good enough, if a bit too "Mad Maxy" but it went WAY over budget and schedule

Surely going "WAY over budget and schedule" is an absolute plus from the viewers pov ( as opposed to the beancounter's) it means its had even more time and money spent on it than planned! great!

... but instead ,for some reason ,people chose to interpret this news as "its a bad movie" and dismiss it before theyd even seen it

[–] roger1 (4046) 7 months ago

Surely going "WAY over budget and schedule" is an absolute plus from the viewers pov ( as opposed to the beancounter's) it means its had even more time and money spent on it than planned! great!

... but instead ,for some reason ,people chose to interpret this news as "its a bad movie" and dismiss it before theyd even seen it

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I agree with you wholeheartedly on that. "The Great Race"(1965), Blake Edwards slapstick comedy with Jack Lemmon and Tony Curtis is another example. It was the STUDIOs headache that the movie went way over budget -- we got a plush, lush spectacle with all the stars, sets, locations and action money could buy. Millions of people went to see it -- but not enough to cover the budget -- so it was a success (people went to see it and loved it) that was not a hit (didn't make a profit) . Of course, TV and later video brought money in over the years..

I think the problem for Kevin Costner on Waterworld was that -- while we may have gotten a great action movie(and that part's debateable...see the reviews) ... HE got blamed for cost overruns and that "wounded him" in terms of being a bankable star. Wyatt Earp had similar problems...The Postman was "the end."

IMdb shows that Costner worked steadily after Waterworld and The Postman, but if you look at the titles, he didn't really end up in many(any?) big hits in those almost 30 years since 1997(The Postman's year) -- and though he had a huge net worth came Yellowstone and divorce in 2022....he evidently wasn't getting paid as high as he used to be, per picture.

That's another thing - Kevin Costner even at lower per picture pay in less-than-major hits (""Swing Vote,""Draft Day") still stayed rich.

[–] Burgershmurger (1461) 2 months ago

People caught on to him being a liberal who plays cowboys. That's why few people went to see Horizon. He has only himself to blame.