MovieChat Forums > General Discussion > Who Are The *Real* Victims?

Who Are The Real Victims?

posted 2 years ago by HarveyManFredSin (4877)
12 replies | jump to latest

Those who have the LUXURY of being able to lash out and blame others for their victimisation? Or those who are BLAMED for other people's victimisation, no matter how virtuous they try to live their life?

My apologies for this complex and 'problematic' question? I fear that it might make the likes of Otter and Keelai's heads explode... 😞

To give an example, I've suffered two particular hardships in my life. One, where I was the victim of a sexual assault. The other, where I was *falsely* blamed for a relatively minor and non-sexual/non-violent misdemeanour. Guess which one caused me the most grief?

At least with the former trauma, I was empowered to be the 'victim' and thus blame *others* for my trauma. In the second scenario, I was the *false* pariah, and thus couldn't play the unequivocal victim, no matter what I did to defend myself.

Of course, such TRUISMS are very CONTROVERSIAL to a certain brand of 'leftist,' but I speak as someone who has experienced BOTH sides of the coin (i.e. victim of ACTUAL abuse, and falsely accused pariah), and so I have more authority than those individuals who have experienced neither, or only experienced one or the other.

Sorry, for the 'inconvenient' narrative, fellow progressives, but FACTS and REALITY don't always adhere to narrative and agenda. 😠

[–] chilone (18331) 2 years ago

Are you TheMan18?

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Who's that? And why do you think I'm them?

[–] chilone (18331) 2 years ago

You have some similar posting characteristics.

[–] Wint3rFir3 (7386) 2 years ago

The way you phrase/perceive things throws me off.

In the first instance, you were able to be the victim and blame others for your trauma because you were the victim and others were responsible for your trauma. And I'm truly sorry for your experience.

In the second instance, you were also a victim of a false accusation, it's not a role you were playing. The word victim isn't a bad word no matter how much it's demonized, it has a definition and should be used accordingly.

However, how much grief could a non-violent and non-sexual misdemeanor cause? Were you arrested? If not, and it was just someone saying they didn't believe you, or several someones disbelieving you, that's incredibly unfair, but it's hardly comparable to being sexual assaulted. But that's what I mean by perception - you felt harder done by when it came to the latter situation, but it doesn't mean you actually were, you maybe just perceived that you were because you didn't have people siding with you as you expected they should.

I don't care for leftist/rightist progressive/conversative politic speak, just seems to invite division when a lot of us imo don't even fall into those categories.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

No offence. You seem like a nice person, but your view of the world is very PC/dare I say 'woke' (in the sense of saying all the *right* things). Not necessarily left-wing 'woke' or PC, but simply 'right' and what polite society expects us to say and believe.

I DO all the right things, but I am NOT a mindless "Kick Me" simp who refuses to question the world (I'm not saying you are, but I'm certainly NOT), and I'm talking about my ACTUAL experiences here, rather than what a bunch of Ivory Tower liberal art professors believe we should *think* and *say* in accordance with the 'correct narrative'.

REALITY AND LIVED EXPERIENCE >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE 'RIGHT' NARRATIVE/AGENDA

Every. Fucking. Time.

And my lived experience was that when I was assaulted, I felt humilated, but in hindsight, I recognise I was NOT to blame, and I was the 'victim'. In the second scenario, I was the *pariah*. The MOB believed I was guilty, and so, from their perspective, I was the bad guy.

Being accused of something I hadn't done (in this instance, badmouthing a particular girl, and women in general, and proclaiming my academic superiority, something that I hadn't even thought, whether or not it was true, let alone *said*). Having mindless thugs (not 'racist', I'm referring to a *white* boy here), join the mob and prod me saying "Who do you thinm you are? You're not as clever as Catherine...yadayadayada" was more upsetting that the initial lie, because at least the I knew that the *liar* knew she was lying. It was the MOB (which has only gotten worse since the rise of Twitter) who were the ones who *really* upset me.

It's one thing to be falsely accused by a bad faith actor. It's another thing for supposedly 'decent' people to *believe* that bad faith actor, over me, and add salt into the wound by questioning my intelligence on account of something I HADN'T said, or even thought (as much as exam results preoccupied me as a kid, I wasn't going around thinking...

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

..."Am I cleverer than Catherine, Simone, who-the-fuck-ever." I was working on my own results regardless of what other people were doing/achieving, although in hindsight, it's funny that I never had these negative thoughts since I was CONSISTENTLY getting top student of the term merit awards around that era 🤷‍♂️ Maybe I *should* have been more arrogant in hindsight).

Anyway, being falsely accused upset me and caused me to threaten suicide, at which point I was cancelled from mainstream/polite society for YEARS, and am still living with the psychological scars of being a pariah TODAY. 😠

The sexual assault, by contrast, was upsetting and humiliating at the time, although I was too young to even understand what it was, and it was something I was able to get over quite shortly afterwards.

My apologies, again, for the 'wrong' narrative. I apologise that the FACTS and the TRUTH don't support the agendas of the Otters and Keelais of the world, or the Hillary Rodham Clintons, and her ACTUAL *RAPIST* pseudo-feminist hubby (for good or ill, I'm the ANATHEMA of Bill Clinton; probably for ill since everyone seems to ADORE that POS; he says all the right things, and does all the bad things, whereas I *do* all of the right, feminist, anti-racist, PC/woke things, but I have a tendency to ask awkward questions, then again, unlike Slick Willy, I'm not an ambitious PSYCHOPATH. I care more about TRUTH and REASON than 'getting ahead in life'. Fuck the ambitious and shallow materialist/celebrity-minded people of the world and their ME-ME-ME agenda which foregoes interrogation, introspection, evaluation and depth, for easy flip answers 😠👊🏿).

[–] chilone (18331) 2 years ago

REALITY AND LIVED EXPERIENCE >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE 'RIGHT' OR "LEFT" NARRATIVE/AGENDA

Every. Fucking. Time.

Fixed it for ya.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

With all due respect, I think you mistook me.

I didn't mean 'right' as in 'right-wing'. I meant 'right' as in *correct*, and, in fact, if anything the 'right' (as in 'correct') narrative is invariably going to be a *left-wing* (or 'politically correct'/'woke') one, so, if anything, my argument *on this occasion* aligns with your particular leaning/sensibilities.

[–] Wint3rFir3 (7386) 2 years ago

I don't know what to make to make of this response tbh. I don't know what you mean by the words directed at me, I don't know what you're apologizing for, I still don't understand the situation you were in - but please don't try to explain it to me again coz I'm certain I'm not capable of understanding it, and I definitely don't understand that whole last bit about Otter and Keelai. Even the highlighted all cap words don't really make sense to me. But I do wish you the best with your work situation if that's still impacting you today and I hope you speak to a therapist about your experiences, because I sense an anger that might be the result of untreated trauma.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I've been in therapy. Guess what? Therapists aren't miracle workers. My trauma will ONLY be eradicated when I'm restored to the position I *would have* been in, had I *not* been messed-about in the first place.

Since society is not willing to accommodate that (the snooty elitists who run society believe that a person should start from scratch, failing to recognise that it's MUCH easier for a 14-year-old to restore their life and start from the bottom than it is for someone in their 30s/40s), I sincerely doubt my trauma will ever be treated.

Of course, there is an answer: society could rectify what I experienced, and give me exactly the life I *would* have had, had it not been for the trauma IT imposed upon me, but no doubt I'd be labelled 'entitled' (*sigh* 🙄🤦‍♂️) and 'unreasonable' for such expectations/demands.

WE REAP WHAT WE SOW. Society CAN rectify things (there's enough resources to amend things in theory). It just lacks the will to do so.

[–] Furienna (3377) 2 years ago

While it's true that therapists aren't "miracle workers", you make it sound like you want to stay angry and not heal.
I'm sorry if that sounds too harsh, but that is what I feel when I read what you wrote in your last post.
There's no way for society to rectify what you or anybody else has experienced.
It is up to you to get the life that you want or find piece with the life that you have and not blame other people.
Maybe you didn't have the right therapist the last time and need to try therapy again?
It seems to me that you need help with dealing with anger and resentment...

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

"While it's true that therapists aren't "miracle workers", you make it sound like you want to stay angry and not heal."

I don't want to *stay* angry. Anger just is. I can help my actions. I can't help my *feelings*.

"There's no way for society to rectify what you or anybody else has experienced.
It is up to you to get the life that you want or find piece with the life that you have and not blame other people."

That strikes me as anathema to the idea of justice. According to such a philosophy, anyone who has been wronged, should just take it on the chin, and shoulder the blame themselves. Maybe that approach would be good for their mental health (it's better to let things go than to harbour resentment), but it's easier said than done, and, once again, it goes against the idea that victims/survivors should receive justice against their abusers.

"Maybe you didn't have the right therapist the last time and need to try it again?"

This seems akin to looking for unicorns. Once again, NO therapist is a miracle worker, and they can only help heal the pain temporarily. For individuals to truly heal, long-term, more practical remedies are needed. Once again, it's not beyond the capacity of society to provide those remedies. The question is, do the people at the top (i.e. society's gatekeepers) wish to do the RIGHT THING and lift the rest of us up? 🤷‍♂️