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Bringing A Girl Into the World Versus Bringing a Boy Into It

posted 2 years ago by HarveyManFredSin (4877)
36 replies | jump to latest

I have a close friend who has two daughters, and she told me that she was nervous about bringing girls into the world because she believes it's 'harder' to raise/deal with girls than it is to raise/deal with boys.

As much as I adore my friend, on a platonic level, and generally have very high regard for her wisdom on most matters, I disagree with her here.

When something goes wrong for your daughter, it's the *world's* fault. When something goes wrong for your son, it's *his* fault, and, thus, the blame of the people who raised him.

Since I always prefer to live my life GUILT-FREE, I prefer the former scenario (unfortunately, both sides of my family tend to produce more sons than daughters, and, so, the likelihood is that if I ever have biological children, they will be boys).

It may be traumatic, but I can deal with the grief of something terrible happening to my daughter. I CANNOT and WILL NOT deal with the FUCKING responsibility of having a son who turns out to be a POS, despite my best efforts to teach him otherwise. Grief and a sense of victimhood, is a LUXURY I'm happy to feel the 'burden' (🙄) of, but GUILT and BLAME I WILL NOT endure. 😠

Lashing out/blaming others is bliss. Those who possess that luxury are VERY PRIVILEGED and SPOILED indeed. They NEVER have to endure the anxiety and shame that accompanies the sense of being 'wrong'. Those who are born to be pariahs are the REAL VICTIMS.

[–] Wint3rFir3 (7386) 2 years ago

I can't quite grasp what you're saying, but I have a feeling I don't agree with it. You can deal with the grief of something happening to your daughter? What? But you won't take responsibility for a son who turns out to be a bad person, which might be your fault? Again, what?

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Yes! It's much easier to deal with the grief of something that has happened to you/a family member, than deal with the complex and difficult emotions that come with dealing with the grief of something that you're supposedly *responsible* for.

In the first scenario, I get to spend the rest of my life blaming someone else, which is VERY easy to do. In the second scenario, I have to carry the blame/guilt for something I've supposedly done.

I know this isn't the typical leftist social justice oppressed-against-the-oppressors narrative that progressives like me are expected to push, but the older I get, the more I gravitate towards emotional/psychological truisms than relatively shallow and materialistic political/social 'truisms'.

You do understand cognitive dissonance, correct? And the psychological conflict it entails?

[–] chilone (18331) 2 years ago

You do know that girls can turn out to be POS too, right?

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Sure, but girls don't commit rape (certainly not in the legal sense, and even in any other sense, the rate of sexual assault and DV committed by women is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than that committed by men, although I've long argued that sex crimes/DV committed by women, although *relatively* low, are still far more prevalent than many people seem to acknowledge).

The truth is, men/boys are intrinsically more violent than women/girls, *in general* and I say that as an *anti-simp*. That's just reality. Unfortunately, what it means for those of us men/boys who *aren't* remotely violent, is that we're stigmatised with the label and have to carry the can for the rest of our sex/gender, which seems rather simplistic and reductive to me... 🤷‍♂️

[–] chilone (18331) 2 years ago

While what you say has truth to it, there is good and bad in both genders. That said, I have girls and they are the most precious and cherished to me and they bless me every day. 🙂

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Haven't you just proven my point? 🙂

[–] chilone (18331) 2 years ago

No. I have girls. I didn't have a choice.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Where did I speak about a choice?

That's my whole point. We DON'T have a choice. Some people (i.e. you) are just LUCKY. Others are not. The FORMER should show a bit more humility. 🙂

[–] chilone (18331) 2 years ago

I would not consider myself unlucky if I had been blessed with a son or sons.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Luck is a continuum/a scale, rather than an either/or binary.

[–] chilone (18331) 2 years ago

That has nothing to do with what I said.

[–] Wint3rFir3 (7386) 2 years ago

So basically what you're saying is, you're okay with your daughter being sexually assaulted, because you wouldn't be held responsible, but if your son was a rapist, you would be held responsible and that's what's bad about it? So having kids is all about how you're perceived, and who cares how they're treated and perceived based on your parenting? I can't even call this thinking sexist because it dehumanizes both genders.

Yeah, I definitely disagree with what you're saying. Also, as a father of a daughter, if you were a decent one, you would still likely feel responsible for anything negative that happened to your daughter, as you would feel you'd failed to protect her. It's not rational, but love isn't rational.

And who in the world has told you that when a girl does something, the world's to blame? Like, you know when a woman is sexually assaulted, the first thing people ask is "what was she wearing?" implying she brought it on herself through her actions. If she dates or marries an abuser, people guilt her for staying with him. If she has kids, she's the main culprit if anything goes wrong with the kids because "boys will be boys" but mothers are supposed to know best.

I definitely know what cognitive dissonance is, and something tells me you must experience it a lot. Also, your friend sounds like a misogynist. Neither of you should have kids if you care about kids at all.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

My friend is a STAUNCH FEMINIST and POLITICAL ACTIVIST who has done FAR MORE for women and oppressed people than I suspect anyone here has ever done. That you describe her as a 'misogynist' is frankly laughable. I'm not going to give her identity, but she's actualy semi-famous as a left-wing/progressive activist.

No offence, Wint3rFir3, but you have CONCLUSIVELY proven that you don't have a damn clue what you're talking about. Your judgements and assumptions are way, WAY off base.

As to the rest of your post, yes, I would feel bad/guilty if my hypothetical daughter was raped, but NOWHERE near as bad/guilty as I was responsible for bringing a boy into this world who committed such a horrific crime, and nowhere as guilty as I'd be EXTREMELY ANGRY with the person who violated my daughter.

I natrually feel guilty about everything, but if my hypothetical daughter was raped, my self-reproach would be offset by how angry I felt about the rapist.

FWIW, knowing me, I'd blame myself no matter what, since I am naturally inclined towards self-blame over attacking others, but given the two scenarios, I can see more scope for attacking another person if my hypothetical daughter was raped, than I could if my hypothetical son was a rapist. Whilst I'd blame myself in BOTH instances, at least in the former, I'd still love my daughter, and I'd still be able to lash out at the rapist. In the latter instance, where do I go from the discovery that my hypothetical son was a rapist? Once again, you're not living in the REAL WORLD. You're living in a goody-goody, don't ask/don't tell, pseudo-liberal bullshit Clintonesque (now THERE'S an ACTUAL rapist...😠👊🏿) fantasy world which fails to engage with how things actually are.

The Clintons, Kowalskis and, with all due respect, Wint3rFir3s of the world don't like to engage with DIFFICULT questions and truisms. You'd rather bury your head in the sand, until someone is hurt/raped/killed (usually by a Clinton or a Kennedy... 😠👊🏿)

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Also, just because the world is full of DICKHEADS who *do* blame their daughters if they're raped, that DOESN'T mean that *I'M* one of them (but, somehow, according to you, that makes me a 'misogynist'... 🤦‍♂️🙄... duh...)

"And who in the world has told you that when a girl does something, the world's to blame? Like, you know when a woman is sexually assaulted, the first thing people ask is "what was she wearing?" implying she brought it on herself through her actions. If she dates or marries an abuser, people guilt her for staying with him. If she has kids, she's the main culprit if anything goes wrong with the kids because "boys will be boys" but mothers are supposed to know best."

It seems you're confusing MY values and beliefs for that of the shitty MISOGYNIST world at large. Do *you* subscribe to this attitude? I'm not going to judge you, as you have *me*, but don't you dare accuse *ME* of misogyny when I'm the one saying that I WOULDN'T interrogate my hypothetical daughter and blame her for the thing done to her.

Also, the irony/offence of you suggesting that *I*, as a man, "shouldn't have kids" (fwiw, if it wasn't already clear, my 'misogynist' friend *sigh* 🤦‍♂️🙄 is a woman), when I'm not the one who accepts 'boys will be boys' and 'mother knows best' as an option. *I* take full responsibility for anything that goes wrong, just like I've done in COUNTLESS occasions at work and elsewhere.

The thing is, just because I have "Kick Me" on my back, it doesn't mean I'm so fucking stupid to not realise the sign is there. I play the martyr, but that doesn't mean I FUCKING like it, and why the FUCK should I? 😠

[–] Wint3rFir3 (7386) 2 years ago

you have CONCLUSIVELY proven that you don't have a damn clue what you're talking about

Technically, I don't have a damn clue what you're talking about, as I stated in my OP to you. All my assumptions are based on what you posted first, which, if I'm confused, has less to do with my intelligence and more to do with your phrasing.

As for your friend, a staunch feminist can still hold misogynistic values, those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Believing that a child's biology is what makes them harder to raise is misogynistic, especially being a woman herself. That kind of thinking undermines her achievements.

I'm not mixing up your personal values, I'm saying your values do not correspond to the norm, so you believing you'd be held responsible for your son being a rapist and the world would be blamed if your daughter turned out to be a raging bitch makes no logical sense.

However, you seem mixed up about your own values. How do you go from saying "I CANNOT and WILL NOT deal with the FUCKING responsibility of having a son who turns out to be a POS, despite my best efforts to teach him otherwise. Grief and a sense of victimhood, is a LUXURY I'm happy to feel the 'burden' (🙄) of, but GUILT and BLAME I WILL NOT endure" to "I naturally feel guilty about everything...knowing me, I'd blame myself no matter what, since I am naturally inclined towards self-blame over attacking others" to "*I* take full responsibility for anything that goes wrong"? Which one is it?

And why is your daughter being raped and having to live in fear potentially forever less bad than your son being a rapist and not having to deal with anything except the consequences of his own actions?

Everything else you said is a no from me, as it's completely outside the scope of this discussion. I'm perfectly fine with hard facts and harder truths, learn what they are before attacking me about them and idk maybe don't attack people for responding to conversations you start.

[–] chilone (18331) 2 years ago

They say it's better to have boys, because with boys, you only have to worry about one dick. With girls, you have to worry about all of them. 😜🤣

[–] parkerbot (10728) 2 years ago

You won the internet today.

[–] Kowalski (79128) 2 years ago

THIS IS TRUTH.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

But that *one* dick is *your* responsibility.

[–] MaximRecoil (4854) 2 years ago

I wouldn't ever want to bring either into the world. For one thing I wouldn't want the huge long-term expense and responsibility that goes along with it, and for another thing, no one asks to be born, and in hindsight, many people would have rather not been born, so who am I to force someone into existence?

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

May I ask, how old are you?

I mean, I have *some* sympathy for your POV, and it's one I occasionally share, but a lot of people get to a certain age and feel FOMA when it comes to the joys of parenthood.

[–] MaximRecoil (4854) 2 years ago

48, and I don't know what "FOMA" means.

I see no "joys of parenthood," at least not any that even come close to making that massive albatross around your neck worth it. I'd rather have a hound dog, but even those amount to far more responsibility, expense, and hassle than I want to deal with.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

FOMO = Fear Of Missing Out (whoops, I should have said 'FOMO', not FOMA).

[–] moviechatterer (16326) 2 years ago

Fear Of Missing Out

or , conformatism
or , doing it because thats what everyone else does

perhaps the world would be a less overcrowded place if people stopped having kids just because "its what you do"

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

FOMO and conformism is not the same thing.

A lot of people get drunk, eat meat and endeavour to become as rich as possible. That doesn't interest me. But having kids addresses a void that many people feel.

[–] moviechatterer (16326) 2 years ago

I'm not saying everybody is " doing it because thats what everyone else does"

some people want to have kids , obviously!

but the ones who are doing it because FOMO , are obviously missing that urge , that void , and just needlessly populating the earth and going with the flow.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Once again, I don't think that's what FOMO is. It's not a sense of wanting to have children simply because other people are having them. I'd like to have kids for various reasons, and I don't want to get to the stage where it's too late, which is partly where the FOMO comes in.

[–] moviechatterer (16326) 2 years ago

well yeah , theres also the

"i want em one day ... but not now" camp who dont want to miss the boat , especially womene - the ones in charge of doing the baking and have that biological clock

If you "want em one day" get started I say - its a 20 year job minimum sooner you start ,sooner you finish and get your life back

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

You're judging my attitude, and yet you're treating having children like ordering a pizza, as something to do/get out of the way, so it's not looming over your head later on.

Guess the fuck what? It takes two to tango, and I can't order women (well, SOME men do, but NOT *ME*), like I'd order a pizza. That's disrespectful, and not the way the world operates for those of us with MORALS.

[–] moviechatterer (16326) 2 years ago

hey, sorry man , i didnt mean it that way

if you're still looking for the right woman , then god bless you and good luck

and just to clarify, that is not sarcasm

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Thank you for the sincerity. Whether I will, or even deserve, to find the right woman, I appreciate the kindness of your words.

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

my wife says i would have been stricter if we had a daughter. i thought i was strict enough on my son. we will never know.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I'm sure your wife is a lovely person, but that type of "You're harder on women than you are on men," schtick strikes me as fucking insufferable.

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

it was just idle chit chat stuff.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Fair enough. I do like your posts, so I don't want to fall out with you. 🙂

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

not a problem.