The great inflation gets a pass, because it's a one-time event and for now, there's no better theory around - not saying that some of the current models won't be subject to changes over time, of course they will. If the singularity happened as supposed, we'll have to accept that our perception of time does not apply to anything before.
As for disasters - Gliese 710 would be another predictable problem - or the moon slowly leaving/destabilizing earth - our sun's supernova - they will happen, but won't be the first problem humanity will encounter in a near future. Even a magnetic polar shift is going to happen at any time _geologically_ soon, meaning in 20k years, a lot more, not exactly never or maybe tomorrow.
The Brian Cox prediction is not wrong, just following another definition of "the end". Life in the known universe is likely to be consumed by black holes, but time as it's defined by physics would not yet cease to exist. There's still a lot of reactivity going on, a lot of energy around.
As long as something is going on (or has the potential to do so), it takes time to progress - it defines time by progressing.
That even SPACE-TIME would cease to EXIST as well???
Yes, this is when time in general ceases to exist. Space-time would still exist up to this moment - by definition, but it would be stripped of its effects. At this moment, space would be a flattened layer, equally slightly radiated (simplified). The definition of space becomes a more statistical one - it's practically a 2D disc.
With time goes space-time, but the dependency on space becomes a constant anyway.
It's really about the last moment the Standard Model of physics predicts for itself. Pretty morbid when I think about it. When there is nothing left to tell now apart from the moment before because they are all the same, forever - or not forever, there is no way to know, because time has gone.
Space would continue to exist, other aspects of the Standard Model could still apply, but remain perfectly balanced (powers) or are simply not applicable (thermodynamics).
We cannot tell for how long. Nobody can.
reply
share
joi2049 (5631)
4 years ago
-Gliese 710 would be another predictable problem - or the moon slowly leaving/destabilizing earth - our sun's supernova - they will happen
Ok. Which SOLAR SYSTEM do you inhabit?
Because THIS ONE where we live on PLANET EARTH doesn't have a SUN that's going to go SUPERNOVA !!!
Because it's too SMALL to do that. Instead it's going to turn into a RED GIANT, GOBBLE US UP, and then end up being a WHITE DWARF after that.
Also not familiar with this Gliese 710 situation, but our MOON also won't leave us before our SUN SWELLS UP to cause us any destabilization issues where we'd WOBBLE around on our AXIS.
Because it also only drifts about a INCH away from us each year.
🌛🌓🌔🌕🌖🌗🌜
reply
share
plusplus (467)
4 years ago
Ok, this was simplified, the swelling up to a red giant will have the same effects to planets in range, so the difference in wording doesn't matter. Let's use the longer wording: It will run out of fuel.
At its peak, the sun's diameter will more or less reach Earth's course (somewhere between Venus' and Mars' orbit, it's still an estimation).
And yes, at the current speed and acceleration, moon will have left a stabilizing position long before, Earth will already wobble a lot when this happens.
reply
share
joi2049 (5631)
4 years ago
https://www.spaceanswers.com/solar-system/will-the-moon-ever-leave-earths-orbit/
At present, the Moon gets 3.8 cm further away from Earth every year, and it was much closer to Earth in prehistoric times.
But the Moon’s outward spiral is dwindling as its distance from Earth decreases and its tidal forces get weaker. This alone should be enough to prevent our satellite from ever leaving orbit around Earth completely without intervention from some outside force. Another factor to consider is that the Moon’s satellite’s tidal pull slows down Earth’s rotation by 2 milliseconds per century. Given enough time, will eventually slow it so that Earth takes a month to rotate (however long a month may be by that time). At this point, Earth will be fixed with one side facing towards the Moon, just as the Moon is already fixed with one side facing towards Earth. At this point, Earth’s tidal bulges will become ‘frozen’ is place, and incapable of influencing either Earth or Moon any longer.
How long will it take for the Moon to move away from the Earth?
In about 50 billion years, the Moon will stop moving away from us and settle into a nice, stable orbit. At this point, the Moon will take about 47 days to go around the Earth (currently, it takes ...
A Rocky Relationship: Is the Moon Leaving the Earth?
https://futurism.com/a-rocky-relationship-is-the-moon-leaving-the-earth
📌 Also NOTE how the SUN is due to SWELL UP and GOBBLE BOTH the EARTH and the MOON UP in about 5 BILLION YEARS.
What will happen to the Sun in 5.4 billion years?
>>In 5.4 billion years from now, the sun will enter what is known as the red giant phase of its evolution
So why on EARTH someone says the MOON will settle into a STABLE ORBIT in 50 MILLION years makes no sense.
Ok. It also acknowledges this FACT in the link:
>>there are a number of individuals who believe that the Moon is leaving for good (hopefully, you never believed these slanderous lies, but a lot of people do).
>>Individuals frequently talk about a permanent breakup. And this, I am glad to say, is utter nonsense.
>>As is true of many rocky relationships, the Earth and Moon only need a bit of time and space to work things out.
>>…of course, the Sun is going to turn into a Red Giant in about 5 billion years, and many scientists believe that it will consume our planet in the process. So the Earth and Moon will be obliterated long before they achieve stability…and the human race will probably be extinct.
So that's 2 STRIKES against you now !!!
⚾⚾
(The SUN going SUPERNOVA and the MOON leaving when its not)
ONE more your OUT !!!
😉
reply
share
plusplus (467)
4 years ago
This is Moon's perspective, not Earths. Moon's stabilizing qualities to our angle vanish long before its probable settlement. Earth will encounter extreme winds and most possibly become uninhabitable because of this.
Still, we're on a billions of years scale - not nearly to the end of time - the topic - and nothing to worry about now.
Don't know what you mean with your strikes, my point was that it basically has nothing to do with the topic. They're just "local" disasters, but don't affect time. Don't blame me for trying to simplify things for you by listing examples you might understand. If you want the long version - it's just the current state of science, read it up.
reply
share
joi2049 (5631)
4 years ago
Since the MOON is composed of matter that comes from the EARTH ...
(matter which got blown off of the PLANET when another MARS sized PROTO PLANET hit it --way back when lots of other PROTO PLANETS were still roaming around inside of our SOLAR SYSTEM during it's formation) ...
that means THE MOON has the SAME PERSPECTIVE as the EARTH.
And EARTH also won't become UNINHABITABLE for us HUMANS either:
https://www.secretsofuniverse.in/lunar-retreat/
the previously mentioned ‘wobble’ that the moon stabilizes will start to become much more noticeable as the moon has a mitigated gravitational effect on Earth due to a larger distance from it. This will yield a measurable change in seasons with much greater temperature swings and longer exposure to extreme conditions such as warm weather during the summer when facing the Sun or freezing conditions in winter when turning away from the sun.
Thanks to technology and our relatively high resilience, humans need not worry for compensation is easily possible. However, many species will be finding themselves unable to alter their lifestyle fast enough to survive in changing conditions.
So that's also 3 STRIKES now !!!
⚾⚾⚾
reply
share
plusplus (467)
4 years ago
Again, this is just from one point of view, taken out of context. The global ecosystem is much more fragile, it will eventually be a part of a chain of events that would lead to uninhability before our sun's "don't call it supernova, it just causes the same level of devastation but is a conveniently short word".
Please excuse that I might be missing the absolutely best wording, English is my 4th language after all and vocabulary is the hardest thing not to mix up. Usually, scientific things are standardized and easier to talk about, but at the beginning and end of time, we're in its fringe territories (and my astrophysics class was at a German speaking technical university, decades ago).
reply
share
joi2049 (5631)
4 years ago
That's very impressive that you know 4 languages!!!
Here's the GIST of it:
A SUPERNOVA EXPLODES like a GIGANTIC BOMB going off.
Our SUN is going to GRADUALLY SWELL UP into a RED GIANT and EXPAND OUTWARDS, prior to it's SHRINKING back down again into a WHITE DWARF.
And when it SWELLS UP enough and the PLANET gets HOT enough the MOUNTAINS will also MELT.
And at that time NOTHING organic is going to be left alive.
And ORGANIC LIFE forms will also have become EXTINCT long before the MOUNTAINS reach their MELTING STAGE.
That's also why we're busy building the SUN SHADE or STAR SHADE now so that we can hopefully try to find other PLANETS like this one that we can MIGRATE to some day.
https://exoplanets.nasa.gov/resources/1015/flower-power-nasa-reveals-spring-starshade-animation/
Maybe when we COLLIDE and MERGE with the ANDROMEDA GALAXY and become MILKOMEDA we'll find one then (if our SOLAR SYSTEM doesn't get FLUNG out into SPACE during the MERGER)???
Because IF we don't find another PLANET to MIGRATE to then that will also be THE END of TIME for us HUMANS (no matter how much longer SPACE-TIME still continues to EXIST after our demise).
reply
share
plusplus (467)
4 years ago
Yes, there are bad things going to happen, but they won't affect time (locally, huge moved masses will slow it down, but time in general stays applicable). We can still theorize of things going on later. We still can apply time to simulations and models. So, time still exists, even if all of these disasters happen.
At the moment of maximal entropy, it ceases to exist. We are unable to even think about anything depending on time after this point (without ending in a paradox).
Still, this is only the most current variation of the most probable theory. There are some newer theories about dark matter worth looking at. Some could shake up common understandings again, basically a good thing.
The very end of time, a slightly positively loaded particle disc with no reactivity at all, seems to be a common denominator.
As for the Andromeda merger - don't be too worried about solar systems. As a whole, galaxies are not that dense. The night sky would be awesome to look at and the possibility of gravitational interference exists, but our solar system is far away enough from the center for an expected collision. Imagine it more like the re-arrangement of molecules in two inert gas clouds.
reply
share
joi2049 (5631)
4 years ago
And what IF we're the only SPECIES in the UNIVERSE intelligent enough to be aware of this and what will happen???
Would TIME even MATTER anymore once we ceased to exist and NOTHING else was left to be able to COMPREHEND what SPACE- TIME was anymore???
reply
share
plusplus (467)
4 years ago
Right now, we are able to talk about the time after humanity's existence. We still can simulate what's going on later. We can think about later events, calculate due dates - only because time continues to exist after us. The way, we observe and define time, doesn't depend on a spectator being present.
Our understanding of the singularity in the beginning and the general direction where seemingly everything is going to in the end is key to our boss-level, if it was a game.
In contrast, we cannot theorize about anything beyond maximal entropy in a timely manner. It's after the end of time.
At the very least, I'd expect humanity to reach a degree of understanding, so that our current thoughts become funny anecdotes to them.
As for other intelligent species (warning, popular scientific theories ahead, not proven in any way):
I think it's the Drake equation (don't beat me to it), implying that there has to be more intelligent life out there. Recent discoveries of planets in other solar systems make it more and more likely, that we weren't/aren't/will not be the only ones.
And it's the Fermi paradox (again, no beating please) explaining why we won't reach each other.
As a fan of Sci-fi alien encounters, a bit of a bummer. Still, both sound reasonable to me, from our current state of knowledge.
I really hope that we will take it to the next step, up to an interplanetary species, even beyond the limits of our current math.
In the end, will humanity (or its space-offspring) be able to witness anything of all this?
Probably not, but would we be who we are if we wouldn't try it anyway?
reply
share
joi2049 (5631)
4 years ago
What I had in mind is the other idea asking if a TREE falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it does it really make a sound. So if no intelligent form of life is there to observe TIME would time really matter anymore.
As for the theory of what happens after ENTROPHY, I've also already put forth my FOUNTAIN THEORY (which in essence is very similar to NIETZSCHE's ETERNAL RETURN idea).
The DRAKE equation rings a bell, but since they also suspect we're the only PLANET with a MOON our size that keeps us STABILIZED on our AXIS, that also makes it MUCH LESS LIKELY other planets would have as much life as the DRAKE EQUATION suggests. Because the PROTO PLANET hitting the EARTH at just the right angle isn't likely to have happened to other inhabitable planets.
PLUS you also need the DINOSAURS to go extinct so that mammals could survive, etc. etc. etc. Therefore I'm not that much of a FAN of the Drake Equation (which also doesn't take FLUKES that have happened here into consideration).
But like the case is with you, one also hopes that we can manage to find another PLANET to migrate to anyhow someday (even though we'd probably also just pollute it the same way we have this one).
Also got the chance to look up Gliese710 and found even more BAD NEWS for us at this link which says in addition to GLIESE there aree 7 or 8 other PLANETS like it that could DESTROY us:
http://exitmundi.nl/Gliese710.htm
And that's not everything. Gliese 710 is not the only star that�s coming our way. During the next million years, at least eight stars will come closer to us than our current closest neighbor, Proxima Centauri at 4,3 light years. One of them, a red dwarf called Barnard�s Star, will arrive in only 10,000 years time. After that, a massive twin star system called Alpha Cen A/B will come knocking at our door. Calculations show the system is massive enough to give the Oort Cloud a good stir. Better keep those hard hats within reach, folks!
And how about this? There�s always the remote possibility Gl-710 or one of the other incoming stars is surrounded by planets. And that some of these planets are inhabited worlds. As you can read elsewhere on this site, the chances that this life is intelligent are vanishingly small. But for arguments sake: suppose it is. What would it do if it found us on their way? What would you do?
As every science fiction freak can tell you: it�s probably not a good idea to be a stand in the way for some kind of Klingon civilization.
As you can see, if we want to survive, then maybe we'd also better hope that we are the only other intelligent life form in the universe???
📌📌📌📌📌
reply
share
plusplus (467)
4 years ago
Anomalies are already part of the factor concerning habitable planets in the equation, so this doesn't change a thing. We are lucky for more reasons, like having a protector like Jupiter. However you turn such variables, all huge multipliers stay the same. Just fill in the parameters as you like and check the result.
In general, it's not that unlikely for stuff to be collected at la-grange points, forming trojans and later on falling back to the main planet of an orbit. It's not how our moon was formed (it was one of the theories, but doesn't fit the distribution of heavy elements), but could lead to similar moons - in simulations. Also, having more than one moon could have positive effects too.
Megafauna and megaflora depend on high oxygen levels. They wouldn't start a space program anyway. Like fish would never start experimenting with electromagnetism. Intelligent life doesn't have to be a mammal.
reply
share
joi2049 (5631)
4 years ago
YES we are definitely VERY LUCKY to have JUPITER (the COSMIC HOOVER) who VACCUMS UP COMETS and other STUFF before they can make it further into our SOLAR SYSTEM and DESTROY us again (like they did in the case of the DINOSAURS about 65 MILLION YEARS ago). Hoover is/was the name of the VACCUM CLEANERS that we use to use to CLEAN our carpets with inside of our homes).
The DISTRIBUTION of HEAVEY ELEMENTS is also due to our being a POPULATION STAR that was produced by 2 other GENERATIONS of STARS before us (which went SUPERNOVA).
Currently we have 3 GENERATIONS of STARS which are called:
POPULATION I, II, and III STARS.
And yes intelligent life doesn't have to be a MAMMAL, but one still hopes that if it exist it might be or else it might also want to make a MEAL of us HUMANS (the same way as we eat other mammals or species)???
Or they might also chose to PREY UPON US and COLLECT our BONES as A TROPHEY (such as the case is in the PREDATOR films)??? And that's also what certain humans use to do when they visited AFRICA and killed other animals to use as a TROPHEY to show others when they got back home again).
So perhaps we HUMANS could also end up with our HEADS decorating a WALL (like we see the heads of DEER doing in certain places).
reply
share
plusplus (467)
4 years ago
Earth's core is also heavier than it statistically deserves. Unfortunately, we're limited by the speed of light and looking at solar systems very far away. We'll always see their past, they'll always see ours.
I'm not afraid of a Predator-ish scenario, the "War of the Worlds" factor would protect us. Even if we could establish contact, contamination of each other's biosphere would be something to avoid. Of all possible meals they could encounter, I doubt humans being the healthiest.
On the other hand, imagine the aliens being tasty mushrooms. Intelligent, but at the same time, the delicious delight the galaxy was waiting for.
We'd eat them. For sure.
reply
share
joi2049 (5631)
4 years ago
Perhaps the COVID VIRUS was sent here by some ALIENS who want to get rid of us so they can inhabit the PLANET themselves???
Ever notice how this VIRUS seems to behave as if it had a BRAIN???
It's as if we're AT WAR with it, and each time we figure out a way to get rid of it, it comes up with another way to overcome what we've done to protect ourselves from it (such as MUTATE into other STRAINS that the VACCINES won't protect us from).
Or what if the COVID VIRUS is some microscopic ALIENS who are already FEASTING on our bodies and making meals of us???
👽
😉
reply
share
joi2049 (5631)
4 years ago
This is for anyone not familiar with the FERMI PARADOX or the DRAKE EQUATION:
https://www.space.com/25325-fermi-paradox.html
More exoplanet-hunting spacecraft are coming online in the next few years. The Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite (TESS) launched successfully in April 2018 to study nearby stars. NASA's James Webb Space Telescope, expected to launch in 2020, will examine planets for the chemical makeup of their atmospheres. The European Space Agency's PLATO (PLAnetary Transits and Oscillations of stars) is expected to launch in 2026. And larger ground-based observatories are also being envisioned, such as the European Extremely Large Telescope that should see first light around 2024.
One challenge is these exoplanets are so far away that it is next to impossible for us to send a probe out to look at them.
While SETI's Frank Drake and others suggested there could be 10,000 civilizations seeking communications in the galaxy, a 2011 study later published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences suggested that Earth could be a rare bird among planets.
It took at least 3.5 billion years for intelligent life to evolve, the theory by Princeton University researchers David Spiegel and Edwin Turner said, which indicates it takes a lot of time and luck for this to happen.
Other explanations for the Fermi paradox include extraterrestrials "spying" on Earth, ignoring it altogether, visiting it before civilization arose, or visiting it in a way that we can't detect.
Earth was an early bloomer. Even though the study excluded intelligent life, the study suggests that our planet's birth came very early in the universe's history. When Earth was formed about 4.6 billion years ago, the study said, only "8 percent of the potentially habitable planets that will ever form in the universe existed." In other words, most of the material available to form habitable planets is still around — giving lots of time for alien civilizations to form.
Or perhaps life may be too fragile to survive for long. A 2016 study suggests that the early part of a rocky planet's history can be very conducive to life, as life could emerge after about 500 million years after the planet cools down and water is available. However, after that point the planet's climate could easily wipe life out. Look at Venus (which has a runaway greenhouse effect) or Mars (which lost most of its atmosphere to space). The study was led by Aditya Chopra, who was then with the Australian National University (ANU) in Canberra.
In 2017, Space.com republished a RealClearScience article with 12 reasons why we cannot find aliens, ranging from intelligent life self-destructing to nobody being willing to transmit their whereabouts.
reply
share