I think so. But it seems times are a-changing and this may not be such a steadfast rule these days. However, it would make me feel 'less of a man' if we splitted bills on first date.
I guess it also depends on culture and region too. Certain areas of the world have different rules.
Dine & Dash.
shareThere was a guy who did that in America, he would invite women out to dinner and then run off without paying the bill. Appearently it was theft.
Except it wasn't theft, he left the women to pay. What nobody wanted to talk about was...
1/ Why is it the women just expected to get a free meal?
Traditionally, men were supposed to be providers, while women were supposed to take care of the family. As potential providers, men were supposed to pay. No matter you like or not, that was coherent, clear and well defined.
The problem appears when those roles are shamed in modern society... but men are still supposed to pay and provide. In general, it's one the biggest problems of modern feminism: they reject traditional roles... but they still want the traditional advantages.
And what's more: women are biologically programmed to marry up. And that includes feminist ones. That's why modern women are so fucked up: they complain when there's men around that have better salaries because that's allegedly sexist, and then they complain when there's no men around with better salaries because they can't marry up.
Traditionally speaking it makes perfect sense. I am not knocking that. The gender roles were clear.
My problem is like you say. In modern times, we are supposed to support equality, masculinity is shamed, called toxic. Yet feminism never tried to change men paying for dates and men making the approach and first moves.
I know women love to have things both ways but I think they are discovering that men have lost patience and interest. Women have also found out that working for a living isn't as great as they were told it was and many want that traditional life again but are finding out men have walked away.
Yeap. The usual narrative is that women were oppressed by men, which is bullshit. And I have heard the opposite too, that men were oppressed by women, working like horses to provide for them. That's bullshit too. The best evidence is that traditionally, both men and women desired to marry. Acts speak louder than words.
Now women are finding that men don't want to marry anymore. Again, acts speak louder than words.
As a general rule, what people do says more than what people say. It's like blacks complaining about how white oppress them, but the truth is that blacks are the ones moving to white areas, and whites are the ones flying away.
The usual modern left answer is that men not wanting to marry is the new sexism, and whites flying away is the new racism. It's the modern new oppression by absence.
Feminism like most "Equality" movements has to play this two faced game. Women must be seen as victims otherwise they can't keep pushing for special treatment and quotas. Of course, as you mentioned this means there are less men making the big money and it's not just the big bucks that the women want, they also want the man to have career as something flashy like a doctor. A high paid tradesman won't really cut it for them.
It is easier for women to blame men as lacking some quality for not wanting to marry them. The truth is that most modern women aren't marriage worthy. Can they cook? Can they sew? Make a home? To even ask these things would cause the torches to be lit and the pitchforks to be sharpened.
One of the unintended consequences of feminism is that men have become more capable domestically. My grandfather could barely cook and I don't think he knew how to use the washing machine. I can do these things as can many men, we don't need women to look after us like men used to.
Women on the otherhand though still want a man to pay for dinner... even if he does earn less than she does...
Oh yay!
Another post generalizing all women saying how awful we are! Joy!
Oh well.
shareMen's attitudes and perceptions of women have changed a lot over the last few years. 10 years ago you wouldn't see discussions like this often and there would usually be a horde of white knights rushing in to save the damsels in distress.
Yeah, well women aren't exactly damsels in distress and I'm sick of this shit.
shareStop reading posts that offend you then. We were having a discussion about the inequality of modern equality.
shareI'm not offended. That's the problem with generalizations. You have lumped all women into one group of what they want in a man and that's dishonest and harmful. Just like not every man here is the same, wants the same thing, or is attracted to the same thing, women are very different with vastly different wants and desires.
These posts do nothing but breed contempt. Feminism isn't a one size fits all and there are a lot of feminists, both female and male, who want nothing more than equality. All that is done when everyone is packaged away in neat little boxes label right, left, black, white, male, female etc is create a division where there is none. Not all women want a man to pay for dinner. Not all men want to pay for dinner. Not all women want the high stress career, some want to stay home and be moms. For others that is a repulsive thought, and yet those women could all be feminists.
Regardless, you have to accept that some of us have had bad experiences and been on the receiving end of a lot of hate and we are speaking up.
It pales in comparison to sites like kill all men anyway.
I think you will find that most people have been on the receiving end of hate. It's one thing to speak up against the specific people who have perpetrated the hate, it's another to blame every individual who is the same sex/colour/creed. How does that help other than slinging hate towards someone the same way hate was slung at you?
shareNot blaming every woman, that is your take on what I am saying.
How does it help me? I don't expect it will but it is nice finding like minds and being able to express myself.
When you make blanket statements about women, you are blaming them all.
Women must be seen as victims otherwise they can't keep pushing for special treatment and quotas
or
It is easier for women to blame men as lacking some quality for not wanting to marry them.
If you didn't intend to, try saying some. Makes a world of difference. You can express yourself all you want, especially about women who have done you wrong, but when you paint all women, or men, or any group of people with one brush, I will take umbrage as I can express myself as well.
Well you have expressed yourself. I will continue to also express myself as I please.
share10 years ago you wouldn't see discussions like this often and there would usually be a horde of white knights rushing in to save the damsels in distress.
I wouldn't say it's theft but I think I should be illegal. Is scrounging a crime?
shareWho would the scrounger be, the person expecting the meal would be for free or the person who leaves the other to pay for the meal?
shareThe person who leaves the other to pay. If he's doing it on purpose constantly, then it's on him.
shareI disagree, I know that even if I were going out knowing that the other person was paying I would still bring money with me. I find it interesting that these women just expected a free feed.
shareI think that has to do more with what society expects rather than the woman herself. I feel the same way with getting engaged. Why is it so wrong for a woman to ask?
shareIf the woman asks ahead of time and it is understood than that is different. A lot of women just think that the date will be paid for by the man.
shareThis man tried the dine and dash one too many times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XebF2cgmFmU
I do not condone (I do) this man's actions.
shareClassic video
What a dignified arrest😆
For years I’ve thought this man was dead. Feast your eyes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTkQrzgeSnk
Thanks, unfortunately I need to sign in due to age restriction and I haven't used my Youtube in years...damned if I can recall the password
shareDepends if you want a second date.
shareNO...COULD BE LESBIANS.🙂
shareDepends. If it's something simple like coffee just pay it. If it's something more Lady can chip in.
shareHow is this even a question? Of course they should.
shareNo, not always. Why should men always be expected to pay for everything?
shareExactly. I mean I said split because I don't want to feel obligated, but there are many situations here. Who asked who out? How was it asked? If the words 'Can I buy you dinner?' were said and I agreed before hand then it might be different. Why can't a woman pay on the first date? I also really don't like the women who expect to be treated to dinner and pick super expensive places. Such a jerk move.
i paid back in the 80s. there was never any question. my son paid while his girlfriend was a student but they split the bill now that she is working. she insists on it.
shareI have been with the same Lady since April 19th, 2002 so I've been out of that scene for a pretty long time
Up until then I always paid, it wasn't even a question back then
Modern dating sounds like a delicate tiptoe through a minefield...I'm glad to not be part of it