People don’t give a shit, they are still out and about doing whatever they want. These idiots are packing out parks, grocery stores, parking lots and practically everything still open.
Why is our government so passive in enforcing social distancing and the stay at home orders that most states have now issued, what are they waiting for? For us to get like Italy?
For those of you planning to respond in defense of our “freedom” at what point does human life become more important than some temporary discomfort to get through this so we can get back to normal?
We need to follow a less draconian version of China’a response, strictly enforce stay at home orders, through steep fines rather than violence.
The country is divided in ethnic groups. The law is not seen as a common ground, but as an oppressive rule, and the police as the enemy. Diversity makes countries chaotic and kills cohesion. And you wanna enforce a strict quarantine? Good luck with that.
If we're talking about Wokes, yeap, 'offending' is the key term. But when you have a balkanized country, you don't risk some twitter storm. You risk cities being burnt down.
And how do you enforce these orders in all those 'ethnically diverse' neighborhoods? The police? They can't. The army? You're sending the army to the no-go zones? Good luck with that.
These are just two examples, recently posted here.
"People don’t give a shit" Negative hyperbole. Obviously there are many more people who do "give a shit," than those who don't.
"they are still out and about doing whatever they want." More of the same. MOST are sheltering in place/self-quarantining whenever they can, and if they're out, honouring the 6' physical distancing.
"These idiots are packing out parks, grocery stores, parking lots and practically everything still open."
People are still allowed to go out, again, as long as the aren't sick and stay 6' away from one another while doing it. There's almost nothing open here. Just grocery stores, gas stations, etc.
Stop being so hysterical and negative. It does no one, including you, any good, and it's wearing very, very thin.
Obviously you are one of the people who doesn’t fully grasp the severity of this. A small minority of people disobeying the rules is more than enough to exacerbate the spread and make this way worse than it has to be.
Herd immunity does us no good, since a vaccine is still over a year out. The only other way to get herd immunity is for the virus to run its course, for literally everyone to get it. That right now is the worst possible thing that could happen.
So is everyone going to isolate for a year while in the meantime economies go over a cliff and countries go bankrupt spending money they don't have like drunken sailors ?
I thought that right now the idea is that most of us will end up getting it, but if we can spread out when we get it there won't be such a toll on the health care system.
Yeah but that doesn't make sense. There is no treatment for Covid-19, no medications and no vaccine. All they can do is put the people who get really sick on ventilators and the majority of them will die anyway. People might just as well stay at home and take their chances like they used to in the old days.
I don't know what to tell you, but you admit that there's a 20% chance of survival with the aid of a ventilator.
Wouldn't that make your chances of tackling it yourself 0%?
No, it's my understanding that you only need about 80% for that to happen. I think when people can start being tested for antibodies we will find that the number of people infected will be much higher than expected. I have always thought that this is the logical way for this to die out and once we have effective treatments, people will come down with it, take meds, and be on their way.
But like any disease, there will be people who will die from it. I know you have a problem with the survival rates that are based on current stats, but those % will eventually go down as more people become infected and survive.
I agree with you 100%. I feel like all these idiots are Larry Vaughns. They are going to ignore this problem until it swims up to them and bites them in the ASS!!!
Unless they come up with effective medication or a vaccine in the reasonably near future then eventually this coronavirus is going to bite everyone in the ass. Oh unless you suggest we all stay at home for a year or two ?
I suggest we flatten the curve. The last thing you want is to get it and need help at a hospital that is overloaded with cases. No one is saying stay at home for a year or 2. Bite the bullet now. So things can get back to normal sooner. If you don’t understand the concept, please look it up.
Yeah but that doesn't make sense. There is no treatment for Covid-19, no medications and no vaccine. All they can do is put the people who get really sick on ventilators and the majority of them will die anyway. People might just as well stay at home and take their chances like they used to in the old days.
If you think that a visit to a hospital when someone is having problems from Covid 19 only consist of a line to a ventilator, then I suggest you look that up as well.
So all of this pandemonium so that half ( and probably significantly less than that ) of a small fraction of the population might benefit from oxygen and IV fluids ? Have you ever heard of a cost benefit analysis ? If not look it up.
You still don't get it do you ? Flattening the curve does nothing to reduce the death rate, it just spreads it out over a longer period of time. The only argument for it is to reduce the load on the hospitals but as I pointed out there is bugger all they can do anyway.
Sure if they come up with a vaccine or effective medications reasonably soon that would be a game changer. But there are none as yet, just a bit of talk about maybe's and hopefully's.
Well that's why these decisions should be made by people at the highest level who can look at all of the various considerations and then make an informed and rational decision. Rather than someone who picks out a highly emotional scenario and bases their decision on how it makes them feel.
And I might add it's time for people to man up and take their chances rather than go running to the medical profession who as I say can do very little to help them. I say this as someone who is in a high risk category myself.
"For those of you planning to respond in defense of our “freedom” at what point does human life become more important than some temporary discomfort to get through this so we can get back to normal?"
Freedom inherently carries risk with it. Prior to all the bullshit that's going on now, did you campaign for everyone to be under house arrest so that no one could, e.g., drive automobiles, therefore eliminating ~40,000 motor vehicle deaths in U.S. per year? Is the freedom to drive more important to you than ~40,000 human lives per year?
With everyone under house arrest, we would also eliminate ~5,000 workplace deaths in the U.S. per year. Is the freedom to go out and work worth more to you than ~5,000 human lives per year?
With everyone under house arrest, we would also eliminate up to ~60,000 deaths from the flu in the U.S. per year. Is the freedom to be out and about worth more to you than ~60,000 human lives per year?
You lily-livered, acquiescent, credulous bootlickers who are champing at the bit to hand over everyone's freedoms to assuage your fears, are an embarrassment to the human species. Also, Italy's alleged statistics are a load of horseshit, which you would already know if not for your credulity.
"I have yet to reach the super-sleuthing heights of a conspiracy theorist like you."
This is the second proof that you're an idiot, i.e., anyone who isn't a so-called "conspiracy theorist" is inherently an idiot, because it means they believe the official narrative 100% of the time. Since there are plenty of known conspiracies throughout history, that inherently means you've been duped (or would have been duped, in cases of conspiracies that predate you) many times. Only idiots are routinely duped.
"I would have never have connected Bill Gates and vaccination with "The Mark of the Beast" and the book of Revelations."
You're too stupid to make any sort of "connection," and a "quantum dot tattoo" is obviously a "mark," and it is Revelation, not "Revelations."
However, none of this has anything to do with my original post on this thread, which means it's another non sequitur from you (and your third declaration of idiocy on this thread), and it also means your tacit concession (due to lack of arguments; non sequiturs are not arguments, obviously) is still in effect. It remains noted, of course.
Second, since you still haven't presented any arguments against, nor even addressed, anything I said in my original post on this thread, your tacit concession remains noted.
How can a ventriloquist dummy determine truth from falsehood? How can he figure out a darn thing? You can't have your cake and eat it too. You're the king of self-refuting arguments. What is a puppet if not an idiot who had no choice in uttering his words? What epistemic value can he attribute to them when he cannot attribute at all. You can't step out of it to point to it. You're part of it. You can't claim to have come up with something of epistemic value EVER. Maybe Gates or some master controller made you say all this and the other stuff on reddit! Who knows, right? Let's scan the Bible to see what else we can shoehorn to satisfy our conspiracist's appetite. After all, why should we doubt such a source of truth and logic like that -- or assume it means something other than what we've conveniently decided it does? Just more food for "thought" for a dummy -- but dummies can't consume information and author thoughts at all -- oops.
But let's say you're not a puppet since we both know that you don't actually believe any of that nonsense despite pushing the idea to defend a different argument. What conspiracy "theorists" are coming up with is hardly what any rational mind would call a theory. You're not collecting evidence but connecting disparate dots, with assumed meanings and intent, from dubious sources and giving that all a weight it doesn't logically deserve. And it all stems from our human itch to make sense of things. But your ilk takes shortcuts and leaps to reach unfounded conclusions.
And for the record, I agreed with every word of your other post. I was just chiming with the sarcasm of the other poster's suggestion of how "reasonable" you are. So it's not a non sequitur at all. You just didn't get it. I didn't respond to your post. I replied to snept's broad assessment of a couple of your attributes. You're all over the place. That's how you can hit the nail on the head in one area while tethering Bill Gates to Bible verses at the same time.
Your first two paragraphs are not only non sequiturs, but they are also from a particularly deep part of left field.
I haven't come up with any theories of any kind. You're the one who used the term "conspiracy theorist," and when I repeated it, I qualified it with the term "so-called."
"I was just chiming with the sarcasm of the other poster's suggestion of how "reasonable" you are. So it's not a non sequitur at all."
A reply that continues a tangent is part of the tangent, obviously.
"You just didn't get it."
Your non sequitur is dismissed.
"I didn't respond to your post. I replied to snept's broad assessment of a couple of your attributes."
Thank you, Captain Obvious.
"You're all over the place."
You're not qualified to make that assessment, and as such, consider it dismissed out of hand.
"That's how you can hit the nail on the head in one area while tethering Bill Gates to Bible verses at the same time."
It's a correlation, and some correlations are interesting (unless you're an idiot), especially when the correlation is between a modern day agenda and prophecies written down a couple thousand years ago.
Also, Bill Gates isn't the point. The correlation is with the proposed mark, and the vaccination that accompanies the mark.
How is the nature of your cognitive existence a non sequitur from left field? You were already on the record as a professed dummy. That's the context of ANY argument you assert or ANY claim to knowledge you make. It doesn't evaporate at your convenience. The full context must be noted. We need to know the premises you accept as true b/c that conditions all else. But dodging what I said is not the same as disagreeing with the conclusion in the second paragraph. Your tacit concession is noted.
And calling the first reply a non sequitur does not make my reply, to the points that didn't follow yours, another non sequitur. If snepts replied, "2 + 2 = 4" to your post, then I replied, "Yes, that's true", that does not make my post a non sequitur to snepts. I replied to snepts, not you, as already stated, as you just ignored, b/c your argument doesn't work otherwise. Pretending not to see or understand the difference is another tacit concession.
And it's strange how these old prophecies are so vague that they need someone like you to translate and interpret their real meaning and implication. They seem pinned to the ideas and words of their demon-haunted days. If they refer to the future, and in the Bible's case, the gravest turn for humanity with these evil actors, why wouldn't they be more specific to the terms you're using? Why does ancient prophecy always sound old when it's talking about the distant future? I mean "quantum dot" and "Bill Gates" vs."Mark of the Beast"? Horses/horns/seals? Why the tease? It seems a look into the future would come back with terms and imagery from the future but yet they never do. They're always open enough for your kind to mold and find correlation by pretending to know what these prophecies really mean -- which implies already buying into the logic of "revelation".
And a simple question: Are you really a Holocaust denier and 9/11 truther as MovieBuff said? You just cried non sequitur without dismissing the idea. Is he right?
"And calling the first reply a non sequitur does not make my reply, to the points that didn't follow yours, another non sequitur."
Suppose a hypothetical moderator were to go through a hypothetical thread and remove all of the off-topic posts. Do you think a post like yours would be spared, because it was on the same topic as an off-topic post?
"And it's strange how these old prophecies are so vague that they need someone like you to translate and interpret their real meaning and implication."
No, the "mark of the beast" prophecy is quite specific:
Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
"Why does ancient prophecy always sound old when it's talking about the distant future?"
Is that a joke? Because it was written by ancient people using ancient language, obviously.
"I mean "quantum dot" and "Bill Gates" vs."Mark of the Beast"?"
"Quantum dot" is just a type of tattoo, and a tattoo is definitely a mark in the skin. And what does Bill Gates have to do with anything? I don't know of any reference to him in the Bible.
"It seems a look into the future would come back with terms and imagery from the future but yet they never do."
Is that another joke? Terms from the future would be pure gibberish to both the ancient author and his contemporaries. That's like wondering why the Bible wasn't written in English.
"They're always hazy enough for your kind to mold and find correlation by pretending to know what these prophecies really mean"
No, the "mark of the beast" prophecy isn't hazy at all; it's quite specific.
"which implies already buying into the logic of "revelation"."
Negated by your false premise.
"And a simple question: Are you really a Holocaust denier and 9/11 truther as MovieBuff said? You just cried non sequitur without dismissing the idea. Is he right?"
Your Junior Detective Kit didn't help you answer those questions yourself? Maybe you need a new one:
LOL. Like I already said the first time. Again, it carries over if you accept it as the truth about yourself. You don't and that destroys the other argument you were trying to make. You can't maintain both and pretend you're being logical and with any semblance of integrity.
"Suppose a hypothetical moderator"
If that was the policy, snepts comment wouldn't be there for me to reply to -- but who cares? It is there, so I replied to it. I replied to snepts departure topic --i.e., a more general commentary about you. What don't you get about that? If snepts reply didn't follow from yours, he left yours. And despite my professed agreement with what you wrote in that post, you still prattle on as though I should've addressed the specifics of your post when I was only replying to what snepts said about you more broadly.
"Mark of the beast"
Tattoos on the forehead and hand had been in practice for masters to apply to their slaves back then. As usual, what's "divined" is unimaginatively drawn from what's around them, what has been in their past, and from other mythology. That's why this "future" has horsemen, scrolls with seals, crowns, robes, lambs and other beast hybrids. Exactly the type of scene an ancient would exaggerate from his own existence rather than actually seeing a modern future. "End of days" looks curiously like a twisted, fever-dream version of their current days rather than a glimpse into what civilization would become. It's all old and replete with all the mystical nonsense with magical animals and sacrifices, etc, that science and reason left in the dust where it belongs.
The "future" they divined looks ancient b/c it's not the future at all. Just a tall tale told and retold and written and rewritten that no reasonable person would take seriously as fact. Not to mention the illogic of the nature of this "revelation" of which you strangely seem to understand despite denying the implication that you had bought into the idea. Tell me more about the "how" in all this. You say the terms would be"gibberish". So they heard them? They read them? How can they "translate" gibberish into something that has meaning? Did they imbue that gibberish with their own meaning without understanding its true meaning? (Then you imbue that meaning with another meaning to connect it to something now.) Why wouldn't they take it like dictation? If I'm getting something that way, why would I intercede? I don't have to understand. I just relay what I see/hear/read as it's been "revealed", right? Or have I given myself that tried and true distinction of being a special intermediary that can interpret for everyone? History is full of those charlatans collecting followers. How convenient that they can divine "gibberish" and explain it somehow to everyone else. Or maybe they just authored it themselves. It's a lot easier that way, right?
"Holocaust denier/9/11 truther"
And last and certainly least, the master of logic answers my question with an infantile question. Lame attempt at deflection noted. What are you afraid of? Are there words out there that you won't stand behind now, perhaps? Gee, the debater is awfully quiet about that one. I wonder what I should conclude from that....
I'm done. He disappointed me with that one angle, but he's still a notch above Adlerian. But if he's a 9/11 truther and Holocaust denier, he might not be.
"You don't and that destroys the other argument you were trying to make."
It does no such thing. You are the one who suggested reality was scripted, and once you did that, all I had to do was agree that reality was scripted, for the sake of argument, and I won the argument, because if reality is scripted, that inherently means someone wrote the script.
"If that was the policy, snepts comment wouldn't be there for me to reply to"
First, I said it was a hypothetical thread, not this thread, and second, even if it were this thread, Snepts' comment would be there for you to reply to if the moderator didn't see the thread until some point after you replied, obviously. Your post would be considered off-topic, i.e., a tangent, i.e., a non sequitur.
"Tattoos on the forehead and hand had been in practice for masters to apply to their slaves back then."
This, and the rest of your rambling paragraph, is utterly irrelevant, i.e., the correlation is there either way, and it's an interesting one. ~2,000 years later, a quantum dot tattoo is proposed as proof that you have your "shots." And with this fiasco going on right now, i.e., rights being taken away, allegedly based on fear of a virus spreading, the idea of rights being taken away in the near future if you can't prove you've had your shots doesn't seem far-fetched at all, even though it would have seemed far-fetched just a few months ago. If someone's under house arrest because they don't have the mark proving they've been vaccinated, it would be difficult to buy or sell, wouldn't it? In other words, there's more to it than just the mark, there's also not being able to buy or sell without the mark, plus there's the vaccination tie-in as motivation to get the mark, which was the actual point of my posts on Reddit (I didn't need to make any posts pointing out the mark of the beast correlation, because that correlation is blatantly obvious):
Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy [pharmaceuticals] were all nations deceived.
"The "future" they divined looks ancient b/c it's not the future at all. Just a tall tale told and retold and written and rewritten that no reasonable person would take seriously as fact."
Your mere assertion is dismissed.
"Not to mention the illogic of the nature of this "revelation" of which you strangely seem to understand despite denying the implication that you had bought into the idea."
I never claimed to understand all of Revelation, and I never denied (or confirmed) the irrelevant implication that I had "bought into the idea."
"Tell me more about the "how" in all this."
How could I possibly know anything about the "how"?
"You say the terms would be"gibberish"."
Obviously.
"So they heard them? They read them?"
How should I know? You are the one who mentioned future terms, and future terms are inherently gibberish to people from the past, obviously.
"How can they "translate" gibberish into something that has meaning?"
Who said they did? If I were to speculate, I would speculate that whoever fed the author his visions used images and terms that the author was familiar with, because sending a vision is pointless if the recipient can't make hide nor hair of it. The rest of your paragraph consists of questions along the same line, i.e., based on the same false premise. Consider it dismissed.
"And last and certainly least, the master of logic answers my question with an infantile question. Lame attempt at deflection noted. What are you afraid of? Are there words out there that you won't stand behind now, perhaps? Gee, the debater is awfully quiet about that one. I wonder what I should conclude from that...."
You ask a question which is an utter non sequitur, and somehow I'm logically obligated to give you a serious answer? LOL at that, and LOL at you too, you know, while I'm at it. Find someone else to interview about random stuff; I'm not interested.
MaximRecoil: you are absolutely right on all counts; however, you are way too smart for the room. You can't appeal to mindless hysteria with rational arguments.
They're definitely not taking it seriously.
🌮
Taco stands may have the rule where only one person can order at a time, but even when they're obeying it, they're still breaking the 6 foot rule by talking to each other (right next to each other),
10 feet away from the taco stand.
i don't mind, but isn't this politics MovieBuff?
i guess its also a discussion. hey we have fully enforced social distancing in Australia and it is going great so I am grateful.
No, this isn’t politics. This is a current event, a global crisis. I don’t see how this could be any more in line with “General Discussion.” Take a look through the last couple pages of this forum, there are multiple threads more in line with political discourse than this and several about Covid 19.
Yeh i just mean like the outcome of the decision would be delivered by a politician. probably survival/safety not politics. you are right .. and i will say that i feel safer with enforced social distancing. from before when there was none i feel safer with it.
it is true that people are more cautious of something when it is enforced. it doesn't need to be brutally enforced. just something to make people feel safe.