I agree, what Murray points to as the effects we're seeing in the UK is pretty much all correct and should be stopped, but then the measures Murray suggests of how to stop that are almost all counter productive.
Have a look at Switzerland and ask yourself, how come Switzerland has (relative to population) more immigrants in the country than any other country in Europe, including more Africans, more Muslims, etc., and yet Switzerland has almost no problems with terrorism?
The Swiss have implemented some measures to identify potential threats in advance, they stay on alert but pretty much nothing happens there, how come?
The answer is very simple.
Other countries try to produce as much stuff as possible with as few workers as possible, produce as much surplus and export as much stuff as possible, for that they have to have wages as low as possible and that means they need high unemployment to blackmail workers into ever lower wages, ending up with with an overload of unskilled workers who are either unemployed or are working for wages that aren't even sufficient to pay rent.
This causes hate between all of them, because the locals believe the immigrants cause the unemployment, the immigrants fight back against the hate they are getting and there you have your terrorism.
Switzerland has only a very small trade surplus with other countries, they basically produce only as much stuff as they consume themselves (obviously including the stuff they export in exchange for goods Switzerland doesn't have, like coffee or tropical fruits).
When Switzerland develops new technology that produces more stuff with less hours of physical labor, they do not use that extra production to increase exports, they increase wages so that their own population is able to buy the additional production, wealth of everybody increases, everybody keeps their jobs, nobody hates anyone and society as a whole rises up, including all the immigrants they have.
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TrentnQuarantino (9443)
a month ago
What you say about Switzerland being careful about who they allow in is probably true.
The main problem is that Islam, as it is dictated from the centers of Islam, i.e. Saudi Arabia and Iran is a toxic death cult determined to dominate the world, but with nothing to offer but festering corruption and death to to most. They hate everyone else, and if they don't they are not being good Muslims.
Murray points this out well, and you can see how this violent system has taken over and made life miserable for most of North Africa and West Asia and the Middle East. once the totalitarian tyranny of Islam takes over they are like Star Trek's Borg.
They were allowed into Europe, and they create enclaves where their laws rule and they can intimidate the regular citizens.
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MarkPh (1019)
a month ago
Fundamentalists of any religion depend on the quiet majority supporting the religion and building the foundation upon which the fundamentalists are standing.
In Switzerland this quiet majority of immigrants isn't stupid enough to risk the good life they found in Switzerland, the fundamentalists don't have a foundation to stand on, that's why they don't get anywhere, just the opposite, if you look into the statistics of religiosity, you'll see that within one generation the children of immigrants drop the religion of their parents and become atheists in larger numbers than the locals do, while in other countries where immigrants receive so much hate, their children become the terrorists.
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TrentnQuarantino (9443)
a month ago
> Fundamentalists of any religion depend on the quiet majority supporting the religion and building the foundation upon which the fundamentalists are standing.
This is a BS statement designed to create the false equivalency of Islam to other religions. No other religion behaves even close to Islam. Hinduism is probably the closest, but they have been in conflict with Islam for long history.
It is not stupid when they breed and breed and breed until they have the numbers to challenge the native people and government. Islam is no different than it was in the ancient world - it is a militant aggressive society that was the vision of a murdering sadistic general who aspired to world domination by terror and fear - especially within their own society, backed up by women as slaves and totally ridiculous myths they feed their children to turn them into military drones.
It is true that looking at other religions, there has been a huge drop in religion - except for Islam - because they terrorize their children, and wives - it is religion of abuse and bullying - that is not a religion- and they will not go the way of other religions, and you can see if it you look at the right numbers and don't try to use other religions as proxies for Islamic behavior.
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MarkPh (1019)
a month ago
While it's true that Islam is today the most dangerous religion on earth, you're wrong about the quiet majority.
For one statistics can tell you that Muslim immigrants into the western world have within one generation no more children than the locals do, simply because their children grow up in a society where contraception is available everywhere.
They are "breeding" within their home countries, but that stops when they migrate.
For two, we do not have reliable numbers of how many atheists there are in Muslim countries, because people are afraid to admit it when they have to fear consequences, but when they migrate to the western world we can see in the amount of immigrants dropping their religion almost instantly after arrival, that the amount of atheists in the Muslim world is a little bit but not far behind the western world.
Furthermore we know from statistics that the children of Muslim immigrants are atheists in larger percentages than the local population.
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TrentnQuarantino (9443)
a month ago
That is not true. Most western countries are having trouble just maintaining their populations. Islamic families believe having as many children as possible - especially in welfare states they can take advantage of. I had an Islamic friend whose attitude was that Allah will provide. They look at life differently than we do because they are forced to by brainwashing, and they have self-policing within their own society group.
The atheist issue is absurd - in a society so closed as Muslim society is, no one cares about what you believe secretly because they can see your every move. Read about Yasmine Mohammed's life and you can see - if you wish - how this works.
Again it does not matter what they claim, it matters what they do. Showing up in the middle of London protesting for Hamas is not a good sign.
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MarkPh (1019)
a month ago
I explained to you above where terrorism comes from, why are you now getting back to a long debunked argument?
If you want the statistics, I can give you links, but only to German websites because those I'm familiar with.
The German statistical office has in 2020 published numbers showing that Germans have 1.4 children per woman, while Muslims in Germany have 1.9 children per woman (which splits into more than 1.4 per woman who brought their children with them in 1st generation and less than 1.4 per woman in the next generation) which is BOTH not sufficient to maintain the population, BOTH these numbers indicate a shrinking population and that means the percentages of how many people in the country believe in which religion depends near exclusively on immigration which is in Germany heavily dominated by 1.5 million legal immigrants from eastern Europe per year, who are almost all either Christians or atheists.
Why do you think does the young generation of the 15-25 year olds in Germany have over 90% atheists while over 10% of this young generation are descendants of Muslim families?
Does it look like Muslims are "outbreeding" anyone while we can predict that by 2100 over 90% of all of western Europe will be atheists?
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TrentnQuarantino (9443)
a month ago
Linearity is the thinking process of an idiot.
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MarkPh (1019)
a month ago
Correct, that's why believing Muslims will always have the same amount of children they have while living in Muslim countries, despite the fact that the statistics of roughly 70 years of Turks migrating into Germany show they don't have more children than the locals, is a prime example of ignorant stupidity.
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moviechatterer (16300)
a month ago
quiet majority of immigrants isn't stupid enough to risk the good life they found in Switzerland, the fundamentalists don't have a foundation to stand on
So you're saying the Muslim community could eradicate extremist terrorism , but they only bother doing that in Switzerland?
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MarkPh (1019)
a month ago
Not at all what I'm saying, scroll up, read it again, no need for me to repeat it, just needs you to read what I write rather than on purpose misinterpreting my words.
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spage (69)
a month ago
You say "you'll see that within one generation the children of immigrants drop the religion of their parents and become atheists in larger numbers than the locals do."
WRONG.
It's common for them to beccome MORE religious as they use it as a form of belonging as they dont feel as naturalised as the natives and feel like they are split in two, one part supposed to be native to the country as they were born there, the other is their culture at home which is more traditional due to their parents origins, so they knuckle down and move further into their faith as it allows them to belong to something and be part of a wider community who also happen to be immigrants of the same faith.
You are just MAKING THINGS UP and passing them off as facts.
Please stop doing this.
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TrentnQuarantino (9443)
a month ago
There are tons of Islamic supporters online that will spend all day lying and lying about how liberal Islam is. Islam is very insular - especially with women.
They are not allowed their own lives, and if they insist their men can kill them
saying they are bringing dishonest to Allah.
That is why leaving Islam is one of the ultimate sins that is not only very hard in a foreign land, but when your own family thinks more of your economic and military value than they do of you having your own life and are willing to kill you over it - that is real power to bully and intimidate, and most do not have the support or strength of character to take on everyone in their entire lives.
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maixiu (2828)
a month ago
Absolutely true. It's been noted for years that the second and third generations of these migrants tend to become far more fertile ground for radicalization.
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TrentnQuarantino (9443)
a month ago
Probably because the second and third generation immigrants are competing with more education and against Germans or whomever for better jobs their parents could not do.
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spage (69)
a month ago
You said "This causes hate between all of them, because the locals believe the immigrants cause the unemployment, the immigrants fight back against the hate they are getting and there you have your terrorism."
What???
Terrorism in England happens because locals think muslims cause unemployment?
Pull your head out of your bottom.
Did you just have some sort of verbal diarrhea, and just type a stream of consciouness into your keyboard, becuase that makes no sense whatsoever. You need to sit down and be quiet if this is what you are bringing to the table.
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