We should stop aiding Israel - Politics Discussion

[–] Toomer (147) a month ago

[deleted]

[–] itsbananas2024 (1763) a month ago

"If not for the US Military aid and support, Israel would've been defeated long ago.."

Thats kinda the point. And what everyone is trying to say on behalf of the Israelis.... they have a right to exist.

reply

[–] Toomer (147) a month ago

[deleted]

[–] itsbananas2024 (1763) a month ago

"It's time for the American taxpayers to wake up and demand that the US government stops the funding the genocide of Palestinians. If not for the US Military aid and support, Israel would've been defeated long ago..."

But it sounds like youre okay with Israel being defeated once and for all. How do they exist simultaneously?

reply

[–] tvfan (12742) a month ago

Keep in mind that wars is a profit for international/cabal bankers, lobbyists and the politicians in congress from both sides of the aisle.

They don’t care about death and destruction as long as they are profiting from it.

This is the main reason why they rejected Trump in 2015 when they realized that he was not a warmonger like one of them and he refused to join their war profiteering.

reply

[–] Toomer (147) a month ago

[deleted]

[–] Theman (1224) a month ago

I am not saying what Israel is doing is right militarily, but why are we paying for it. If they have a right to exist they need to find a way to pay the bill themselves.

reply

[–] Tam87 (1189) a month ago

If not for the US Military aid and support, Israel would've been defeated long ago.

Not true, the US only started supplying Israel after they won the Six Day War, which saw them rout a coalition of 5 different arab nations and seize the Sinai peninsula from Egypt, the Golan Heights from Syria and the West Bank from Jordan. The Israelis also defeated the arabs in 1948 with a series of paramilitary groups and using castoff equipment from other militaries.

They would've been just fine without US aid.

reply

[–] AmeriGirl26 (14411) a month ago

Palestinians have been doing a far better job of it than Israel ever did. What's interesting is, they're always running out of food and water, but never missiles and bullets. Fascinating, isn't it?

reply

[–] FootOfDavros (8168) a month ago

Good point. Very interesting...

I was wondering something similar earlier today when I was reading about Israeli troops bombing northern Gaza to hit at "regrouped" Hamas forces!

What a joke. They've been in there for over a year now - an area which is what 5 x 1 miles or something? - and there are still regrouped forces, missiles, weapons, etc to be found and destroyed! They must think we're stupid.

Much like how every strike which slaughters dozens of innocent civilians also miraculously (!) managed to take out some Hamas "senior figure(/s)"! 😂

How many "senior figures" do they expect us to believe Hamas has?!!

reply

[–] spage (40) a month ago

If you kill a senior figure, that position will need to be filled. Logically the subordinate that steps up to fill the position becomes a senior figure . . . Astonishing.

reply

[–] FootOfDavros (8168) a month ago

LOL 😂 Talk about completely missing the point!

For more information please reread...

reply

[–] pumpspunk (174) a month ago

what is it you imagine he's missing, o wise one?

please enlighten us?

when senior military leaders are eliminated, do they just let that position go unfilled for a year while hr conducts a search?

for the record, i'm seeing reports that sinwar has been killed. i've got champagne in the fridge just for that occasion.

reply

[–] FootOfDavros (8168) a month ago

Well, same as Amerigirl was alluding to, re the stupidity of always available munitions, it was simply pointing out the absurdity of believing that Hamas could possibly have a continuous re-supply of "senior figures" in such a tiny area in a period of over a year, when said tiny area has been effectively reduced to rubble and completely controlled by the IDF.

You'd have to be a moron to believe that, or like some other half-wit's comments I read on here, pretty much believe the entire Gaza population is actually Hamas...

Or alternatively believe the IDF is both simultaneously utterly incompetent yet also a master of intelligence in instantly knowing these new "senior figures" 😂

reply

[–] pumpspunk (174) a month ago

well, i think you're showing a pretty weak understanding of the situation on the ground in gaza, in terms of the kind of intelligence israel can utilize.

the fact that it took them a year to take out sinwar compared to the tidy way they've been able to kill hezbollah leadership shows how different those areas are & what challenges they face in gaza.

i'd be a little more cautious throwing around the word moron. your words show that you don't seem to have much of an understanding of what's happening.

reply

[–] FootOfDavros (8168) a month ago

You chose:-

Or alternatively believe the IDF is both simultaneously utterly incompetent yet also a master of intelligence...

Which weirdly was the alternative to the moronic choice I'd described as believing all Gazans were Hamas if there was a constant resupply of "senior figures"...

reply

[–] pumpspunk (174) a month ago

it seems like you couldn't be bothered to even read what i said. you aren't responding to my point.

happy moviechatting to you anyway.

reply

[–] FootOfDavros (8168) a month ago

Of course I read what you said.

Hence why I pointed out your mistake in you saying "i'd be a little more cautious throwing around the word moron" in your previous post.

Regardless, maybe you just didn't understand what I was saying re the IDF being both simultaneously incompetent yet also a master of intelligence... I think this is perhaps why you don't believe I read what you have written.

Anyway, nice to chat with you also 👍.

reply

[–] pumpspunk (174) a month ago

not to drag this boring conversation out, but i still think you're missing my point & i think your words show that you don't grok some pretty important stuff.

there's a reason why israel can seemingly take out hezbollah leadership at will, can blow the balls off hezbollah members, while they killed sinwar by happenstance more or less.

if gaza was completely controlled by the idf (your words), there still would not be 101 hostages at bay.

gaza & lebanon are two very different scenarios with different challenges.

yesterday was a very good & hopeful day, anyway.

bye.

reply

[–] FootOfDavros (8168) a month ago

I think the problem is you aren't really grasping my belief as per my initial reply to Amerigirl, which you jumped in on afterwards:-

"They've been in there for over a year now - an area which is what 5 x 1 miles or something? - and there are still regrouped forces, missiles, weapons, etc"

I think you either don't get what I'm saying / implying here or you just don't believe it. Which if course is up to you...

yesterday was a very good & hopeful day...

Yes, I'm sure in twenty years time when "terrorism" against Israel has become a thing of the past and the people left in Gaza (who weren't blown to smithereens!) will be singing the praises of Netanyahu for taking out their evil Hamas overlords. And will be happily celebrating the anniversary, living side by side on their land with their zionist brothers...

Bye again 👋

reply

[–] pumpspunk (174) a month ago

i know exactly what you're saying.

again, your words show that you clearly don't know the situation in gaza.

if you believe that, then you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

you apparently can't even be bothered to look at the size of gaza.

unless that was meant as some kind of ironic joke, & if it was it wasn't funny.

the best hope for the palestinians is to have their jihadist dreams smashed to bits, that their river to the sea hopes are ground to dust. that's the best path towards them becoming something like a normal population of humans.

i'm going to mute you because life is fleeting & i'm too old & tired to take so much time with people who are talking about things they clearly can't be bothered to try to understand.

fuck you.

reply

[–] FootOfDavros (8168) a month ago

LOL 😂.

What a complete arsehole!

I tried to be decent to you and actually said you're completely welcome to have a different opinion:-

"I think you either don't get what I'm saying / implying here or you just don't believe it. Which if course is up to you..."

But rather than reciprocate and show decency, you've decided to show yourself up instead...

If you want to mask an ignorant (and arrogant!) position by making baseless claims that others that disagree with you "clearly can't be bothered to try to understand" and that you know better, then do feel free not to jump on THEIR comments in the first place! (A LOT easier than having to "mute" people you disagree with! 🤣)

Good day to you Sir 👍

reply

[–] spage (40) a month ago

No, I didn't miss the point, you just wanted your point to mean something more than what it was. it's OK though. No drama.

reply

[–] FootOfDavros (8168) a month ago

That's okay, no worries 👍.

I just felt that if you had got the point, you wouldn't have made that, er, "astonishing" comment...

reply

[–] pumpspunk (174) a month ago

exactly.

palestinians & their leaders are the authors of their own misery.

sensible people will wonder what could have been done with all of that money spent funding tunnels & weapons & missiles.

moral imbeciles praise them as freedom fighters, when all they do is impoverish themselves. a grotesque culture, i'd say, & really a cancerous people.

reply

[–] pumpspunk (174) a month ago

i think it's worth helping them defend themselves against the deranged islamic terrorists who committed 1k+ manson murders & grotesque rapes & against iran & their proxies.

& if the us stops giving them military aid, then israel's weapons will be cruder, less sophisticated, & when they defend themselves they'll be more deadly.

so if you want to avoid civilian deaths, it's better to give them the best military tech available.

reply

[–] AmeriGirl26 (14411) a month ago

Plus, Israel is our only solid ally in the Middle-East. There's no way in hell America's gonna let go of a country that important when there's so much instability in that part of the world.

reply

[–] Theman (1224) a month ago

There were wars there before and Israel didn’t do anything.

reply

[–] AmeriGirl26 (14411) a month ago

You forget that Israel has one of the best spy programs in the world, known as Mossad. They do an extremely good job of spy work on our enemies, so a lot of the aid they provide to the US is not seen out on a battlefield like you would think. So just because you didn't see them helping us where cameras could film them, doesn't mean they have never worked with us in vital operations or refused aid.

It would take an extremely stupid govt. running the US to give up an asset like that in such a troubled part of the world.

reply

[–] tvfan (12742) a month ago

so if you want to avoid civilian deaths, it's better to give them the best military tech available.

They already had the best military tech plus 100% of USA support; but that still didn't avoid the civilian deaths.

reply

[–] Druff (1796) a month ago

Hard to avoid civilian deaths when your opponent literally puts their own civilians in harm's way because they WANT maximum civilian deaths, because it helps them politically, getting more and more sympathy from idiotic uninformed westerners who have no clue what's been going on in the middle east for the last, oh I dunno, 15 centuries.

reply

[–] tvfan (12742) a month ago

Hard to avoid civilian deaths when your opponent literally puts their own civilians in harm's way

You mean the same as what the IDF did by waiting 7 hours while Hamas was "allowed" to enter the gates and for the IDF to shoot down their own civilians with the helos?

reply

[–] pumpspunk (174) a month ago

yes.
but the civilian to combatant death ratio in gaza is likely 1.4 or 1.3/1.
that is probably the best ratio ever documented in urban combat.

you don't get to start a war then complain when you lose. if israel didn't have the capacity to be as precise & selective as they currently do, then that civ/combatant ratio would be much worse.

reply

[–] tvfan (12742) a month ago

That's not war; according to their own Wokepedia, it's genocide.

They created Hamas and had them attack their own people to have an excuse to wage a war for land and resources.

Another brainwashed sympathizer deceived by the Synagogue of Satan.

reply

[–] pumpspunk (174) a month ago

thank you for sharing what appear to be your thoughts.

reply

[–] tvfan (12742) a month ago

Yes, it’s critical thinking based on past history, circumstantial evidence and witnesses/whistleblowers.

reply

[–] Keelai (34864) a month ago

Mass rape story has been debunked by multiple sources. A far-right religious zealot created the lie and Western and Israeli media and politicians repeated it. Zero evidence. As a matter of fact, one family came forward and denounced the lie when their relative was claimed as a rape victim.

Furthermore , most victims were military or police which are fair game during a 75+ year war.

Finally, there is an Israeli policy to kill Israelis if they can become hostages. Some Israelis were killed on purpose because of this policy including children and accidentally during fight with Hamas. The policy was created after the Gilad Shalit kidnapping.

reply

[–] Tam87 (1189) a month ago

Why let them mooch off us?

Israel are very important to American interests. They are the only pro-western democracy in the entire Middle East region and have been providing the US with valuable intelligence over every arab nation that's hostile to the west for the last 50 plus years, through which Israel have been able to prevent Iran from becoming nuclear capable, most likely with America's help.

A few weeks before 9/11, the Israeli Mossad gave the CIA a list of suspects living in the US who they believed to be planning an attack on America, with four of the names being confirmed later on to be the eventual hijacker pilots in the attacks.

reply

[–] pumpspunk (174) a month ago

rare sensible comment. a breath of fresh air.

reply

[–] Keelai (34864) a month ago

But, the Middle East countries are hostile towards the U.S. because we support Israel's oppressive regime and land theft from Palestinians and the millions of Arabs we have bombed.

I just read that the U.S. is responsible directly and indirectly killing 25 million people since WW2. How many were Arabs?

reply

[–] stickman38 (3347) a month ago

It's not that simple but I do think it's becoming less and less attractive to support Israel militarily.

Although, if we did pull back military aid, there are other nations that would pick it up from there. Laser guided missiles/bombs is what they need in order to keep civilian causalities to a bare minimum.

Israel could fight this war on it's own but the casualty rate would be a lot worse. They would just be carpet bombing the whole area. The US supplies them with JDams which are laser guided bombs designed with precision in mind.

Personally, I don't see any end in sight to this conflict, too many Muslims are easily manipulated into this "holy war" mentality and think it's some kind of massive struggle they need to participate in. And Israel also thinks God wants them have the holy lands.

A while back when Abbas gave a speech at the UN, he took a few moments to praise the kids/civilians that have died in this war, yet the first thing he did was refer to them as "martyrs" not as innocents caught up in a war that they have nothing to do with, but "martyrs" that died for a cause. Netanyahu said similar things in his speech about how "Moses laid the first stones there"... etc..etc.. or some crap like that...

This is not going to end until arabs put their own lives, and especially their children's lives, ahead of this "land must be ours" thought process.

reply

[–] Porsche911 (3598) a month ago

https://x.com/stairwayto3dom/status/1847560820819185917?s=46

reply

[–] almonigal (1283) a month ago

You say WE like you matter.
You don't matter.
You don't decide.
You are shit

reply