"Our initial assessment" makes me suspicious when it's used by Israel to say Hamas killed them. Hamas wants the hostages alive in order to negotiate. Hamas kept them alive for 11 months.
IDF bombing has killed many hostages. Freed hostages complained about the Israeli bombing and almost being killed by them.
There was also the incident when the IDF shot and killed four Hebrew-speaking hostages who were able to free themselves.
I hope there is an autopsy so we can find out how the American really died.
But why dont you wait until facts are verified instead of jumping on the wagon to vilify more Jews? The optics are you hate Jews because you often vilify them without discretion.
You seem to vilify Jews more than Hammas. Those are the optics.
2. Israel's right-wing government's actions are in complete opposition to the values and teachings of Judaism's Tikkun Olam and Tzedek. "Not in my name" means Jews don't wont to be used as an excuse for Israel's tyrannical behavior. Do not confuse Israel's war crimes and human rights violations with Judaism!
2. There are Jews who are actively fighting against the oppression and occupation of Palestinians by Israel's government like Jewish Voice for Peace, If Not Now and Center for Jewish Nonviolence.
4. U.S. is complicit and an enabler, too. Both political parties.
5. Israel has been responsible for the Israeli hostage deaths with their indiscriminate bombing and trigger-happy IDF each time. I don't see a reason that this time it's different. "Our initial assessment" = BS lying.
6. MY TAXES are going to Israel for bombs, therefore I have every right to protest!
That doesnt address anything I typed. I'm glad you have the right to protest and I would always fight for your right to do so but Im talking about your hatred of Jews.
[–] Keelai (33965) 8 hours ago
"You should have an adult reread it to you since you're functionally illiterate and need help with reading comprehension."
Definitely something a deranged boomer who ate from too many lead plates as a child would say.
You cannot be for justice, equality, human rights and democracy and support Israel which denies them based solely on religion and race. You are a Nazi.
You cannot be for justice, equality, human rights and democracy and support Israel's religious persecution against Christians and Muslims for 77+ years. You are a Nazi."
Why are you OK with Christian churches being bombed? So far, 3% of Gazan Christians have been killed by Israelis. You get upset if someone says "Happy Holidays!" but you're OK with Christians being bombed, denied the right to practice Christianity, persecuted and ethnic-cleansed from the Holy Land by Israel.
Christian population in Bethlehem, Jesus birthplace, was 80% before Israel. Now only 12% with ethnic-cleansing and persecution. 500,000 Palestinian Christians languishing in Chile want to return to their homes in the Holy Land, but are banned by Israel.
Christian population in Palestine/Israel before 1947 was 11%. Now 2%.
Christians are banned by the government from visiting Jerusalem. And they fear attacks by Israeli Jews. 62% Christians believe Israel wants all Christians expelled from their homeland.
Christian churches are forced to pay high taxes by Israel even though they have tax-exempt status!
1. The Basic Law: Israel - the Nation-State of the Jewish People passed in 2018 literally states that Israel is a Jewish-only state. No one else has any rights. https://en.idi.org.il/articles/24241
2. Yes, it's bombing for religious reasons since Palestinian Jews were allowed to stay and become citizens while non-Jewish Palestinians were ethnic-cleansed. Their homes, villages, towns and farms were destroyed and/or given to Jews. The bombing is ongoing ethnic-cleansing of non-Jews.
3. The entire goal of Zionism as defined by its founders is to take all Palestine for Jews while removing as many non-Jews as possible. A couple of Israeli leaders have publicly stated that they should have ethnic-cleansed ALL non-Jews from the country in the 1940s.
4. Israeli leaders said publicly a few years ago that they should completely destroy Gaza making it uninhabitable which would force all Palestinians allowing the land to be claimed for Israeli Jews.
Yes, correct... OCT 7th shouldn't have happened. Are you arguing that the absolute most reasonable way for HAMAS to exert their terrorist prowess was to attack on OCT 7th? I agree with you. I think that's the most reasonable and effective way to show someone your complete terrorist prowess.
One popular typology identifies three broad classes of terrorism, revolutionary, subrevolutionary, and establishment. Which one are Hamas? Let's establish that 1st and then continue with your antisemitic rhetoric.
Most Israeli hostages in Gaza were killed by Israel's bombs. Those who have been released, like Noa, don't give Hamas a bad name and were treated in a human way.
Russian-Israeli hostage's return was indeed a "miracle". It is hard to survive when many hundreds or thousands of bombs are dropped in the 1 square mile where your place of residence is and in a region without water supply.
Your links don't contradict PSville's argument. One Israeli complaining that she was looked at isn't torture. Of course, a captive is looked at while being guarded! Any complaints about losing weight can be blamed on Israel's government and extremists since they're the reason for food deprivation throughout Gaza.
Israeli hostages received medical attention, food and humane treatment. One hostage was given a birthday cake which is NOT torture.
Israelis literally torture and rape Palestinians whom they hold in prisons for years without charges or trial. The entire reason for Hamas taking Israelis was to do a prisoner exchange with Israel since they hold thousands of Palestinian hostages.
Explain how a country can hold civilians in prison for years without any charges or trial and still call itself a "democracy" .
"Amit Soussana, 40, was taken hostage on Oct. 7 from Kibbutz Kfar Aza. Security camera footage showed her fighting back against her abductors. She said that around Oct. 24 she was attacked by the man guarding her after washing in the bathroom.
Soussana said the guard, who called himself Muhammad, put a gun to her forehead, beat her and dragged her to a child's bedroom. "Then he, with the gun pointed at me, forced me to commit a sexual act on him," Soussana said in the interview.
The Times said Soussana's account was consistent with what she told two doctors and a social worker less than 24 hours after she was freed on Nov. 30. during a week-long truce."
Are you going to keep simping for a psychopathic islamofascist murderous terrorist organisation?
There's no proof what she said is true. Meanwhile, Palestinian hostages released by Israel have visible signs of torture.
Israel is committing genocide, war crimes, ethnic-cleansing and human rights violations for 77+ years. Are you going to keep simping for a psychopathic far-right extremist supremacist terrorist state that has also targeted and killed Americans?
>There's no proof what she said is true. Meanwhile, Palestinian hostages released by Israel have visible signs of torture.
Okay, so you just assume that the hostages rescued are liars. Because of course you do. Borderline racist attitude where you just reject anything that depicts Hamas in a poor light purely because of the national identity of the person saying it.
>Israel is committing genocide, war crimes, ethnic-cleansing and human rights violations for 77+ years. Are you going to keep simping for a psychopathic ethno-religious murderous terrorist state?
Sure. I can condemn specific charges. I can condemn all of that.
Are you ready to acknowledge that Hamas are an Islamosupremacist theocratic bunch of terrorists?
"Sure. I can condemn specific charges. I can condemn all of that."
How would you stop Israel from committing international war crimes including genocide, ethnic-cleansing, illegal settlements, and human rights violations?
Do you support the two-state solution with Palestine having 100% control over their land with all illegal settlements and walls removed plus the law of return applying to all Palestinian refugees in the diaspora?
Or do you support the one-state solution with 100% equality, justice and democracy for all Palestinians and Israelis, restitution for stolen land and property plus law of return for all Palestinians in the diaspora?
And without literally invading countries that do this stuff by force (and Israel is nowhere near the only country that does this), there's nothing you can do. Are you now an interventionist on matters like this?
>Or do you support the one-state solution with 100% equality, justice and democracy for all Palestinians and Israelis, restitution for stolen land and property plus law of return for all Palestinians in the diaspora?
No, this is a fantasy. It is completely non-viable. Hamas reject equality. Hamas reject democracy. Hamas are Islamosupremacists who want to genocide all Jewish people, or drive them out.
Are you ready to acknowledge that Hamas are an Islamosupremacist theocratic bunch of terrorists?
77+ years and Israel has refused to do the two-state solution. Netanyahu and other extremists are 100% against it and want all Palestinian land for Jews only. How will you make Israel do the two-state solution?
>77+ years and Israel has refused to do the two-state solution. Netanyahu and other extremists are 100% against it and want all Palestinian land for Jews only. How will you make Israel do the two-state solution?
So has Palestine. The blame goes both ways. Neither party are interested in two-state solutions.
>The IDF targeted and killed Israeli civilians and IDF soldiers on Oct. 7. When are you going to call the IDF terrorists?
I am on the point of refusing to engage with you any further until you acknowledge that Hamas are an Islamofascist organisation. Or explain why you will not.
Assuming that is true, it's 14 people out of over 800 civilians or so slaughtered by Hamas.
No, it doesn't. Palestinian leaders in the 1940s wanted a one-state solution allowing Jews living there before the Balmour Agreement to stay in Palestine. Remember that historically Muslims, Jews and Christians have lived together peacefully for centuries. They all fought the European invading Crusaders together. Zionists wanted a Jewish-only state with Palestinians removed. Zionism is a settler-colonialism project! Neither the anti-Semitic British nor Americans agreed with Palestinian leaders because they didn't want Jews in their countries and millions of Jews needed a place to live after WWII. They decided upon Palestine.
Furthermore, Britain believed in the religious prophesy about establishing a Jewish homeland in order for all Jews to return so that Jesus can come back. And Britain had military and commercial strategic reasons to protect oil and trade routes while countering France's influence. They thought European Jews would be a better ally than Arabs. Herzl said the Jews would be beneficial to European Imperial powers in Asia as an outpost "of civilization as opposed to barbarism." Remember, they had a European colonialists' mindset in which nonwhites barely registered as human to them and their land was ripe for the stealing.
Today, Palestinians have agreed to a secular democratic one-state solution with full equality and the right of return for all Palestinians and Jews equally. Israel opposes it.
Today, there is de facto a one-state solution since Israel controls all of the land, sea, air rights, borders, etc.. The problem is that Israel has Palestinians living under a brutal military dictatorship aka: tyranny, in Palestine and under Jim Crow in Israel.
Hamas was supported and financed by Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders. Explain why they would support a "Islamofascist organisation"?
More than 14 including children.
There is no reason for Israel to occupy the West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalem. If they completely left, there would be a 2-state solution. That simple.
>No, it doesn't. Palestinian leaders in the 1940s wanted a one-state solution allowing Jews living there before the Balmour Agreement to stay in Palestine. Remember that historically Muslims, Jews and Christians have lived together peacefully for centuries. They all fought the European invading Crusaders together. Zionists wanted a Jewish-only state with Palestinians removed. Zionism is a settler-colonialism project! Neither the anti-Semitic British nor Americans agreed with Palestinian leaders because they didn't want Jews in their countries and millions of Jews needed a place to live after WWII. They decided upon Palestine.
Doesn't matter what Palestinian or Jewish leaders in the 1940s wanted anymore.
>Furthermore, Britain believed in the religious prophesy about establishing a Jewish homeland in order for all Jews to return so that Jesus can come back. And Britain had military and commercial strategic reasons to protect oil and trade routes while countering France's influence. They thought European Jews would be a better ally than Arabs. Herzl said the Jews would be beneficial to European Imperial powers in Asia as an outpost "of civilization as opposed to barbarism." Remember, they had a European colonialists' mindset in which nonwhites barely registered as human to them and their land was ripe for the stealing.
Doesn't matter what the UK believed in the 1940s anymore.
>Today, Palestinians have agreed to a secular democratic one-state solution with full equality and the right of return for all Palestinians and Jews equally. Israel opposes it.
What a load of fucking garbage. Show me a source that says that Hamas has agreed to a secular democratic state.
>Today, there is de facto a one-state solution since Israel controls all of the land, sea, air rights, borders, etc.. The problem is that Israel has Palestinians living under a brutal military dictatorship aka: tyranny, in Palestine and under Jim Crow in Israel.
Did Israel make Palestinians elect Hamas in the strip?
>Hamas was supported and financed by Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders. Explain why they would support a "Islamofascist organisation"?
To discredit the Palestinian independence movement.
>There is no reason for Israel to occupy the West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalem. If they completely left, there would be a 2-state solution. That simple.
And Hamas doesn't accept that either. Hamas wants the expulsion or genocide of all Jews in the region. They are an Islamosupremacist genocidal fascist group.
What both Palestinians and Israelis historically wanted has not changed. Israel is still a settler-colonialism project with the goal of stealing all Palestinian land and ethnic-cleansing Palestinians from it including Christians.
"To discredit the Palestinian independence movement."
That's not true. Try again.
"Hamas wants the expulsion or genocide of all Jews in the region"
100% irrelevant since Hamas has no power while Israel controls all of Palestine. Israeli government can simply leave the West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalem and take their illegal settlers with them. That simple.
>What both Palestinians and Israelis historically wanted has not changed. Israel is still a settler-colonialism project with the goal of stealing all Palestinian land and ethnic-cleansing Palestinians from it including Christians.
This is fucking bullshit. Plenty of Palestinians, or plenty of Palestinian organisations desire the expulsion of all Jews from Palestine-Israel and the implementation of an Islamic theocracy.
>That's not true. Try again.
They did it to undermine legitimate, or more credible secular and democratic Palestinian movements. But ended up aiding a monster. It's blowback, but it doesn't change what Hamas is.
>100% irrelevant since Hamas has no power while Israel controls all of Palestine. Israeli government can simply leave the West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalem and take their illegal settlers with them. That simple.
Hamas *wants* power. Their ideal of a solution is simply not secular, and not democratic. They want more than just those regions. They have to be dealt with.
I gave you the answer a few posts ago. All you need to know to understand everything that's happening is to comprehend that Zionism is a settler-colonialism project. All Israel's behavior is based on that one goal. Everything without exception. This is an excellent article that I have repeatedly posted:
Skavau, you're a fairly intelligent person which is why your repeated Islamophobic slur is very disappointing. BTW, not all Palestinians a Muslim. There are plenty of Christians who are suffering under Israel's brutal tyranny, too. Israel doesn't distinguish between combatants and civilians which is the reason it's ok for the IDF to bomb little kids playing. U.S. is also breaking its own laws by supplying miiitary weapons used in a terror campaign by Israel against civilians killings 40,000+ mainly women and children.
No reason for Israeli citizens to complain about being shot at by the IDF on Oct 7. The American who died complained about Israel trying to kill him in his last video:
"“Since I arrived in Gaza, I’ve survived with almost no medical care, little food and little water. I can’t remember the last time I saw the sun or took a breath of fresh air,” he says, highlighting “non-stop” IDF airstrikes and criticizing the Israeli government.
>"For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
The premier’s policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from"
And why is it do you think that they propped up Hamas? To discredit the secular Palestinian cause.
>Skavau, you're a fairly intelligent person which is why your repeated Islamophobic slur is very disappointing.
And what Islamophobic slur have I said? Name it.
>BTW, not all Palestinians a Muslim. There are plenty of Christians who are suffering under Israel's brutal tyranny, too.
I didn't say that they were. We're talking about the strip, not the west bank. The vast majority of Palestinians in the strip are Muslim.
>No reason for Israeli citizens to complain about being shot at by the IDF on Oct 7. The American who died complained about Israel trying to kill him in his last video:
You have not provided any evidence that most Israel citizens who died on October the 7th were shot by the IDF. I continue to await evidence for this claim.
>Once again, Israel can just simply simply leave West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalem all of which they occupy illegally.
And this would not satiate Hamas. They want all of Israel, and to expel or genocide all Jews and other non-muslims there.
Good point, I would hate to see Hamas's Idle-Hands policy once Israelis have been purged from the area. What on Earth will they do then? I can only guessssss.......