Be like these people: - Politics Discussion

[–] parkerbot (10625) 2 years ago

How about I be like myself and not some fake media personalities?

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[–] warrior-poet (1369) 2 years ago

Absolutely. As long as you "remain persistently open-minded and seek out opposing perspectives over those who merely agree, approaching everything with a mindset of wanting to learn, grow and expand", which is what this video is all about.
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Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I agree with the principle of what you're saying, but Ben Shapiro?!?

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[–] warrior-poet (1369) 2 years ago

Well, that's just the video I happened to come across. And he's willingly seeking out discussion with opposing opinions, so it fit my point. It's something hardly anyone does (including this board). Both sides dig in, refuse to see the faults in their own "side" and take great pains to dance around good points made by the opposing side. Unlike the conversation in this video, which has two people with opposing viewpoints finding common ground, even changing their minds a bit as a result.
_________________________________________
Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I've made similar points on MC before, including even yesterday: https://moviechat.org/general/General-Discussion/64821ee6add4157fcb7d9bf8/People-Dont-Know-or-Care-To-Logically-Argue-and-Explain

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[–] warrior-poet (1369) 2 years ago

Yes I've noticed that. You're one of the very few, and it's quite refreshing to see.
_________________________________________
Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Thanks.

Please feel free to bring up this topic every now and then. If I see your posts, I'll try to respond.

Do you share my frustration about the lack of genuine engagement between people of different points-of-view?

People just seem to (figuratively) shout at each other, or simply strawman one another, without either engaging in the other person's argument or bothering to give their own reasoned and rational basis for *their* POV.

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[–] warrior-poet (1369) 2 years ago

Absolutely share your frustration on that front. In my view it's one of the biggest roadblocks we have as a society. Too many want to prove they're right without even considering they may be at least partially wrong, or that there may be more effective or even alternative yet equally effective ways to think about something.

It's escalated to such an out-of-control level that I fear we may be nearing a point of no return, at least not without a complete blow-up to help reset it all. Which is why I really like seeing those of opposing viewpoints being willing to sit down and have a measured, rational discussion instead of instantly turning it into a flame war that accomplishes nothing other than to degrade civility in an infectious manner that continues to tribalisticly spread to others.
_________________________________________
Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I love being right, but I also acknowledge that I'm often wrong, several times a day, on occasion.

What we all need to do is be able to hold our hands up and admit that we may be wrong. I'm certainly prepared to make such a pledge (although it can be frustrating dealing with others who aren't prepared to do the same, because admitting one is wrong, feeds into their ego and self-righteousness).

To be honest, the world is a complex place, and no-one has all the answers. Arguments change as new facts come to light. The best we can do is go on the body of evidence, and most logical present arguments, at our disposal, and be theoretically prepared to change our minds as soon as contradictory info comes to light.

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[–] warrior-poet (1369) 2 years ago

Well-said! This is EXACTLY the mindset we should strive for, regardless of differing conclusions.
_________________________________________
Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

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[–] Bossdog677 (1582) 2 years ago

Ben Shapiro is an infomercial salesman saying anything he has to for the left not to cancel his scam of selling fake jewelry to Reagan fans....Ana pushes for all the policies that are against her own best interests and only gets mad and speaks out when she suffers the obvious consequences everybody else saw coming from a mile away......be nothing like these people.

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[–] warrior-poet (1369) 2 years ago

So be closed-minded, envelop oneself in a vacuum of like-minded, agreeable people only, striving to remain stagnant, immature, and increasingly steeped in groupthink. Sounds like a winning approach to life. Or is it in fact the entire problem with modern society?
_________________________________________
Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

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[–] Bossdog677 (1582) 2 years ago

Act like you know me. In my teenage social group only two of us were conservative minded and boy were we singled out and berated by everybody. The funny thing now though is every single one of them save for a few females who know nothing about nothing now preach to me about Conservatism as if I'm a liberal they are trying to convert.

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[–] warrior-poet (1369) 2 years ago

In other words you agree with me, despite what you may think about the two individuals in this video? By that I specifically mean you agree that we should all try our best to "remain persistently open-minded and seek out opposing perspectives over those who merely agree, approaching everything with a mindset of wanting to learn, grow and expand". That's exactly what both people engaged in discussion in this video are doing, so despite other faults they may have (everyone has some), they're approach is correct (or at least appears to be correct in this video, assuming it's not all an act, which is certinaly possible).
_________________________________________
Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Funnily enough, I had the opposite experience.

I was ostracised for being too left-wing as a kid, and now everyone has not only 'caught up' with me politically, in some cases they're now further to the left of me.

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[–] Bossdog677 (1582) 2 years ago

It's funny too because when we first moved to the neighborhood my grandpa told me that everybody on the other side of Haskell are a bunch of snobby democrats and would do everything they could to get in my head and change my beliefs and not to let them do it.

Years later when I got in with all them I was bombarded every night by all the kids and their parents desperately trying to get me to change my views and I never did and now 20 odd years later it's them singing a different tune.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Seriously?

I don't know much about Ana Kasparian, but from what I've seen of Ben Shapiro, he's one of the most close-minded, arrogant, self-righteous, supercillious pricks out there. Yes, he's academically smart and accomplished, but he has zero emotional intelligence or empathy.

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[–] warrior-poet (1369) 2 years ago

He certainly doesn't seem to be that way in this video. Maybe he's changing his ways? The individual histories aren't really my point. How they're approaching their discussion with each other with an open mind in this specific video is my point.
_________________________________________
Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

reply

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Fair enough. If he's changed, more power to him.

He *is* smart. I'll give him that, so, in theory, it should stand to reason that he'd have the wisdom to hear other people out rather than block out anything that goes against his intrinsic values.

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[–] CraigC (8720) 2 years ago

Why, because he disagrees with leftist lunacy??? Cold hard facts too tough for you?

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[–] brux (14837) 2 years ago

A role model for the fascist Right-wing.
Academically smart? Says who?

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[–] xanthas (3215) 2 years ago

No. If you're on the Right, be like Mitt Romney. If you're on the left, be like Lawrence O'Donnell

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I looked up Lawrence O'Donnell.

Whilst I approve of his professed socialism, I'm less keen on his patriotism. 'Leftist' patriots are often the worst. They make it harder for those of us on the left who abhor the fundamental stupidity of patriotism/flag-waving to take up any oxygen.

I see he criticised the late Herman Cain for not participating in Civil Rights protests, and in avoiding the Vietnam draft. Firstly, why is every Black man obliged to participate in Civil Rights protests, and what business is it of a privately-educated white man? Secondly, fuck the Vietnam War. I can't blame anyone who avoided it. Also, Lawrence was the right age to serve in Vietnam. If he's so offended by a Black man avoiding the Vietnam draft, why didn't he serve?

I also see he criticised the aforementioned Mitt Romney because Mormanism is a 'made up religion'... *sigh* ALL religions are made up...

Also, why was the editor who leaked a video of O'Donnell shouting during a broadcast fired? Is that de rigueur for all whistleblowers?

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[–] brux (14837) 2 years ago

> Firstly, why is every Black man obliged to participate in Civil Rights protests

Because every human is obliged to support civil rights because civil rights is human rights.

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[–] Gd5150 (11948) 2 years ago

1 on 1 long form discussions are much more interesting and informative than the usual leftwing “debate” hosted by 1-4 leftwingers, with 1 right winger, and an audience of leftwing lemmings.

Props to her for sitting down with Shapiro.

Very few of the modern left, if any at all, can actually debate. Mainly because they have no facts or evidence on their side. They require an audience of lemmings, and control of the pulpit via “moderators” to trigger an emotional response from their sheep.

Just see every hate night tv show including Bill Maher. His 1 on 1 podcast is much more enjoyable. You actually get a discussion of solutions.

Imagine if we had a government that didn’t consist of career politicians, but rather people who’d accomplished things in the real world. And they could have discussions on solutions to problems facing the American people. Instead we get pointless college style gotcha debates that accomplish nothing but providing the media material to cut and paste from.

This is precisely why these long form interviews have grown in popularity. Why people like Rogan, Peterson, Shapiro, are listened to by those who want to be informed.

And the lemmings will continue to tune into their hate filled short attention span emotion based shows like the View and every hate night “comedy” show.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

With all due respect, you seem like the opposite of what the OP is referring to.

You're very set in your ways that the right-wing is ALWAYS right, and that you have nothing to learn from anyone on the political left.

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[–] CraigC (8720) 2 years ago

No, we're just tired of being labeled a racist, sexist, bigot, homophobe, etc., etc., ad nauseam, by intellectually vacant, emotionally stunted people, just for disagreeing.

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[–] tvfan (14459) 2 years ago

The left doesn’t care about that.

They only care about power and control by any means necessary so they lie, cheat, steal, kill, and destroy, then they blame and frame the right-side for all of it.

They have become more radical of what they have always been inherently.

They need to shift from here:

|-----D/L-------------------------------------C|----Right-----|

______________________________To here:

|--------------------------------------D/L----C|----Right-----|

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

All you're doing is proving that you're a right-wing headbanger, rather than someone who is prepared to listen to people of different views. There are extremist handbangers on all sides of the political spectrum, but what the OP and I are calling for is for more wingnuts to take the time out to listen to, and reasonably debate with, people of different political leanings, rather than assuming the other side is always wrong, and intentionally malign.

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[–] tvfan (14459) 2 years ago

You have no clue what it means to be on the right side since all you know is been a radical far lefty.
And apparently, you did not comprehend my suggestion of the shifting.

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[–] CraigC (8720) 2 years ago

He is exactly right. the left has shifted so far to the left, there is little or no common ground. I'm not going to meet people in the middle of it means sacrificing my values and constitutional rights.

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[–] B1cKsurN (17788) 2 years ago

This is spot on, and other sources in the past have made similar, (more colorful)charts. "The Right" is a two-headed beast that seldomly agree on things.

If anything, the Republicans/Libertarians have moved to the right by relaxing many gun restrictions across 27+ states. The Religious Right, however, have moved to the left by supporting more progressive ideals.

________________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.
Leftists always lie.
Wokeness is Weakness.

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[–] tvfan (14459) 2 years ago

Exactly.

I recently came across a small online list of pastors/churches that have compromised to the woke/progressive ideology.

Compromising is exactly why we are at this point which started mostly in 1962 with the SC’s decision to ban school prayer. It has been a downhill spiral to hell ever since.

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[–] AmeriGirl26 (15062) 2 years ago

I'd prefer to be myself, thank you, regardless of my political leanings.

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[–] brux (14837) 2 years ago

Kasparian is a seeker of the truth, and a broadcaster of same.
Not always right on the issues, but sincere and logically consistent.
Ben Shapiro is a sleazy closed-minded lying propagandist for the Right-wing and anyone who sits down with him with an open mind will regret it, and get up with fleas.

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