Surely cooperatives and mutual organisations that place democratic power in the hands of communities of people, is far more empowering and beneficial to traditionally oppressed people than capitalism and corporatism (i.e. the investment of power in the hands of a few, mostly white, mostly male, plutocrats) or even authoritarian socialism/social-democracy (i.e. the investment of power in the hands of a few, mostly white, mostly male, plutocrats).
Or must we all look up to 'daddy and mummy' to save and protect us?
Can you point yo an example of a successful "libertarian socialist" govt?
Cooperatives and mutual groups still need to have officers and a management hierarchy trusted to oversee and, if you like, govern those organisations in order to ensure their continued successful operation. If you don't like the management hierarchy or don't think they're doing a good job you can vote them out.
But you still need to trust people to run stuff. So it's never going to be as "libertarian" as you imagine.
There are few genuinely socialist governments in the world. Period. The best we can often hope for is the social-democratic model found in Sweden and Norway. That doesn't mean we should stop endeavouring towards a *more* libertarian socialist model that invests more power in communities rather than in remote, and often very wealthy, cabels of individuals who often end up thinking very alike, partly because they attended the same schools and colleges, but also because they cannot help but be influenced by working and living together whether they're based in Washington D.C., London or Strasbourg.
Mostly agreed (the Nordic Model is certainly *closer* to the Libertarian Socialist ideal than any other nation state has yet demonstrated, however limited, and is certainly a model to aspire to). Thank you.
So, you share my argument that libertarian socialist models can work (and you're right, the examples chilidoggg gave are Communist AKA an extreme form of authoritarian socialism). Perhaps you should advise my critics here that *they* are the mistaken ones.
Capitalism is the antithesis of socialism, not libertarianism.
Libertarian socialism is not anti-government (anarchism may be, but that is only one offshoot of libertarian socialism). It is anti-State and anti-authoritarianism. However, it does support smaller, democratically-organised structures in the provision of services, such as social welfare, education, housing and healthcare.
FWIW, I am not a purist libertarian socialist. At this juncture, I don't yet believe a fully libertarian socialist system is yet workable, but I do believe we should be incrementally moving in that direction, rather than regressing further into authoritarianism (i.e. more laws, more surveillance, more government control/micro-management of our lives). We do at present need a reasonably large State to authorise and fund public education, healthcare and the other essential services I outlined, along with roads and infrastructure, but the point I keep making is that it is a 'necessary evil' rather than something that should be propped up as a innate good. We should not worship the State or expand it any further than it *needs* to be, but it should be as large as is required to provide those services. I don't even have a particular problem with managerial and administrative expansion within the public sector (as many do). They are often needed for the day-to-day running of services, and moreover, they provide stable, decent, middle-income jobs for 'ordinary people', who have accrued *attainable* skills and qualifications through hard work, years of service and through accessible college courses/degrees, rather than privileged elites. It's where more power and resources are concentrated at the *top* of the hierarchy (i.e. Presidents and Prime Ministers, and wealthy senators and congresspeople) where I take issue.
Doesn't matter if it's capitalism or communism, it always ends the same way: with a tiny group of power-hungry assholes getting all the money and political sway.
The only thing that makes capitalism not so bad is there's enough money going around that actual hard-working people have a prayer of moving up in the world, if they'd get off their asses and stop whining about how unfair life is.
Socialism is good in that most socialist societies provide a safety net that prevents anyone from becoming *really* poor. And I don't care how 'lazy' and 'whiny' an individual is, no one should be living in poverty, especially not within a G8 nation, and especially if they have children and other dependants to provide for.
Where socialism is more problematic, in my experience, is that certain sectors within the public/state system, particularly the civil service, often have a closed-shop, elitist and opaque process for hiring its workforce, whereas in my experience from working in private companies, it's generally easier to get ahead and make promotion/increase one's salary, if one is willing to work hard, whatever school/college one attended, and whatever race, gender and class one belongs to. I've seen rich privately-educated white men get preferential treatment in the public sector, and I've also seen situations, at the lower-end, where women and POC have gotten preferential treatment over white people. This means that if one is a working-class white man, as opposed to a wealthy, privately-educated white man, one is caught in the middle and thus loses out (is it any wonder that working-class white men are one of the demographics most likey to drop out of school early, and one of the demographics most likely to be a small business owner/work in the private sector?)
This isn't an anti-woke/anti-affirmative action rant. I have some sympathy for Affirmative Action, but unless it *also* addresses *class* to a similar degree to the way it addresses other marginalised groups, it stands to reason that working-class white men, who come from poor backgrounds, but necessarily don't benefit from programs targeted specifically at women and/or POC, don't have an avenue for accessing the public sector, which, as I say, is mostly dominated by rich white privately-educated men at its higher echelons.
There are other benefits to socialism, at least social democracy, because it arguably enfranchises consumers, and certainly workers, more than a system dominated by large corporations.
Limited capitalism, controlled by governments, works, because it allows for consumer choice, but ultimately a government with control of nationalised industries, that can be voted out come the next election, is far more preferable to consumers than a corporation that has become SO powerful and essentially monopolised an industry, including arguably essential services, like the rail network, that the 'consumer power' often talked-up in relation to capitalism, becomes entirely non-existent.
Although Amazon isn't engaged in 'essential services' its monolithic grip on parts of the consumer market is as bad for consumers as it is for workers. I certainly don't think the retail market should be nationalised, in the way that water, gas, electricity and public transport should be, but Amazon is a potent example of how the corporate monopolisation of certain industries, destroys jobs, workers' rights, and consumer choice.
Didn't America run into a similar problem with powerful companies having monopolies back in the 1800s? How come none of the anti-trust laws from that era have seemed to stop the internet companies from doing the very same thing the Robber Barons of times past had done?
The Civil War ended the slave-holding oligarchy. FDR's New Deal and 90% taxation on the rich ended the Gilded Age oligarchy. New oligarchy began in 1970s and snow-balled during the 1980s era under Reagan.
Anti-trust laws have to be enforced. Politicians receive political donations from those same large corporations thanks to conservative-supported Citizens United v. FEC decision. Those politicians can defund anti-trust enforcement government agencies through Congress. Right-wing federal judges recommended by the conservative Federalist Society and appointed by the GOP can neuter any on-going cases.
Historically, the conservative party sides with big business - not regular folks.
Look up Libertarian Socialism, as well as the four quadrant political spectrum.
As a Libertarian Socialist, I am as far away on the political spectrum from Stalin as I am from Ayn Rand. Not all socialists are authoritarians, and plenty of right-wingers are.
American Libertarians believe in big business and helping the rich. Less business regulation and consumer protection laws help big business while hurting most Americans. For instance, deregulating The Glass-Steagall Act created the mortgage crisis which lead to millions of Americans in foreclosure.
Fewer government services help the rich who don't need them, anyway. Conservatives want to end Social Security and Medicare. That's not going to hurt Elon Musk.
Technically, the U.S. has plenty of socialism which helps everyone. Socialism examples:
public libraries, public schools, Polio vaccine, food and drug safety agencies, police, firefighters, military, public highways and bridges, street lights, public and national parks, food stamps, the internet, GPS, post office, medicare and medicaid, housing programs, senior citizen centers, public transportation, electricity water and sewer systems, courts, passports, driver license, coast guard, border control, student loans and grants, garbage collection, farm subsidies, EPA, jails/prisons, etc..
Tax-payer funded vital services is not "Socialism" as defined by, and implemented by true socialist governments. This has been an established fact for a very long time, and you trying to will it into existence is not going to happen.
Give your definition of "socialism" and name a "true socialist government". According to your definition, that government doesn't collect any taxes so this should be interesting.