Once again, a fully vaccinated person catches covid. The vaccine fails again. He probably won't have a serious case since he's not old or fat but I don't know if he has any underlying conditions like asthma, copd, high-blood pressure, etc.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10049583/Vaccinated-Supreme-Court-justice-Brett-Kavanaugh-tests-POSITIVE-COVID.html
its the unvaxxxed fault brahhhH!!!! the fake news told me that!!!!!!!
shareDammit! The unvaxxed should be tarred and feathered!
shareyes hanged from the hallows or send to the gas chambers
sharehallows? LOL! That h & g are too close together. đ Iâm forever typing i instead of o!
sharelmfao i am really baked in a starbucks and killing a hard monster in runescape while i am talking here so forgive me for sounding like a retard, in my stoned head it sounded right since it is halloween time and hanging people is pretty spooky stuff
shareWow that syringe holds some strong stuff to ward off Covid! Hmm?đ€ Howâs it working for ya?
shareSigh. Again, most vaccines against viruses don't necessarily prevent infection. It's the same as with flu shots (are you anti-flu shot?) But they greatly reduce the probability of severe infection, and they reduce the possibility of spread (yet again, reduce the chances of, not 100% prevent). So your post (albeit, based on falsehoods in part propagated by our current geriatric-in-chief), and is pointless.
https://www.mana.md/can-you-still-get-the-flu-if-you-get-a-flu-shot/
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/misconceptions.htm
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Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.
You and I both know that polio and measles provide immunity, we also know that was the definition of a vaccine until it was recently changed.
shareHow quickly one forgets:
https://moviechat.org/bd0000082/Politics/610479d659e5cd52d81f0aa5/The-Covid-blame-game-just-took-a-dark-turn?reply=610484ff59e5cd52d81f0b47
The polio vaccine prevents poliomyelitis. The measles vaccine protects against becoming infected with the measles.Neither of those actually âpreventâ. They just greatly reduce, and can help stop the spread.
https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/disease-prevention/pages/news/news/2016/04/poliomyelitis-polio-and-the-vaccines-used-to-eradicate-it-questions-and-answers
https://www.cdc.gov/cpr/polioviruscontainment/diseaseandvirus.htm#:~:text=Inactivated%20poliovirus%20vaccine%20(IPV)%20protects,stop%20transmission%20of%20the%20virus.
https://polioeradication.org/polio-today/polio-prevention/the-vaccines/ipv/[for IPV] In the event of infection, these antibodies prevent the spread of the virus to the central nervous system and protect against paralysis. In this way, IPV prevents infection, but it does not stop transmission of the virus.In other words, it doesn't prevent poliomyelitis from entering your system. It prevents the virus from causing any real harm. In this case, IPV also doesn't prevent transmission, but fights it off. OPV (which is orally taken), however, does prevent transmission, so is used in areas where an outbreak occurs. Widespread vaccinations are the only way to keep it tamped down.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/04/18/304155213/why-mumps-and-measles-can-spread-even-when-were-vaccinated
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/measles/prevention-and-control/addressing-misconceptions-measles
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.htmlMR vaccine is very effective at protecting people against measles, mumps, and rubella, and preventing the complications caused by these diseases. People who receive MMR vaccination according to the U.S. vaccination schedule are usually considered protected for life against measles and rubella. While MMR provides effective protection against mumps for most people, immunity against mumps may decrease over time and some people may no longer be protected against mumps later in life. An additional dose may be needed if you are at risk because of a mumps outbreak.In other words, as I said, âvaccination does not prevent contraction of the virus (no vaccine ever has)⊠It gives your body the boost it needs to fight it off.. and can minimize how contagious you become from it.â These vaccines are no different, except that theyâre new, which puts their long-term efficacy into question (but only time will answer that, just like it did with those earlier vaccines).
So yes, even those previous vaccines âyou can still get and pass onâ, just like the COVID vaccines. But since almost everyone has those previous vaccines, outbreaks are very rare. Thatâs the goal with the COVID vaccines as well.
If those vaccines kill the virus before it can harm you and this vaccine doesn't, as evidence by fully vaxxed people hospitalized and dying, then this isn't a vaccine by those standards either
shareBut this vaccine does do that, just not as effectively, in part due to the variants, in part because it was so rushed, and in part because the vaccines are waning more quickly than expected (probably a byproduct of them being rushed and not perfected). That doesn't mean it doesn't do anything at all. While there are breakthrough cases, the vast majority of severe cases and COVID deaths are from unvaccinated (which include those for which the vaccine has waned).
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid-19-by-the-numbers-vaccinated-continue-to-be-protected
https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf
https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/8/10/22618163/covid-deaths-vaccinated-data-how-many-die
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Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.
"the vast majority of severe cases are from unvaccinated."
Tell that to Israel, UK and Portugal
LOL the vaccine does do that except.....(then lists four reasons why it doesn't)
Just stop man
which include those for which the vaccine has wanedGuess you missed that part.
the vast majority of severe cases and COVID deaths are from unvaccinated
Yeah the numbers are questionable (everything should always be questioned), but the indictors (to the best that are available) do, at least at this point, show that deaths by those who are still fully vaccinated are extremely rare (and in most cases are because despite the vaccination something prevented antibodies from being properly generated).
So-called breakthrough death rates vary per region, but average about 1% of all COVID deaths in the U.S. This number is higher in areas (e.g. Israel) where a much larger portion of the population got fully vaccinated very early on. This seems to be happening because those "fully vaccinated" people are no longer vaccinated due to the waning effect, meaning these vaccines, especially Pfizer, don't last nearly as long as it should, and needs improvement. Another factor here, however, is that the stats are misleading and being misinterpreted (e.g. the second article below).
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/10/us/covid-breakthrough-infections-vaccines.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/08/31/covid-israel-hospitalization-rates-simpsons-paradox/
https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-deaths-among-older-adults-during-the-delta-surge-were-higher-in-states-with-lower-vaccination-rates/
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2021/10/01/military-covid-death-surge-continues-but-vaccine-rates-are-also-up/
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/us/us-covid-deaths-700k.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58545548
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Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.
Getting an accurate read on total Covid cases is next to impossible. Not everyone who gets it goes to the hospital. Many of them self-quarantine and a small percentage don't even get sick from it.
If we had a way to track Covid recoveries, those unvaccinated recoveries would not be told to get the vaccine since we'd know they already had the antibodies.
But since we have no idea who's had it and who hasn't, the vaccine is the only protection that can be documented.
I am against the flu vax and my last flu shot was back in 2004. The flu vaccine averages 40% efficacy and most of the flu vaccines have mercury in them. Mercury is a poison and the FDA even suggests mercury-free shots for pregnant women and children. They don't give a rip about older people.
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/verify-is-there-really-mercury-in-flu-vaccines/65-482388067
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200902/how-effective-is-the-flu-vaccine
My post is not pointless since some people might read it and research vaccine efficacy for themselves. This is a message board and all are allowed to post drivel. I IGNORE people who offend me but they are free to post their drivel.
A vaccine is supposed to prevent infection and that is how I judge its efficacy. The vaccine does not prevent infection and transmission. People are now saying prevention of hospitalization and death is the benchmark for a successful vaccine BUT most of the covid sufferers who die or are hospitalized are old/fat and/or have underlying conditions.
Fair enough, but your original post was about someone catching COVID (with very minor effects) despite being vaccinated, and that was never the intention of the vaccines. While they need work and improvement for sure, they still help. Having said that, they of course aren't for everyone. Someone who's survived COVID has better immunity, and although studies show that being vaccinated improves their immunity even more, they certainly aren't necessary. There are those who might have allergic reactions as well. Which is why the draconian mandates being thrust upon many indiscriminately are so reckless. Each individual must be allowed to make a choice under the guidance of their preferred medical professional about what's best for them. Also, therapeutics like Ivermectin are an essential part of infection response, whether someone's unvaccinated or not.
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Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.
I always thought the vaccines were supposed to prevent infection/transmission. I still think respirators would be a better approach since we might have to deal with future ebola, MERS, SARS, swine flu and bird flu outbreaks. We also have open borders so we're letting all these people in and they aren't vaccinated for anything.
My big concern is the risk of side effects from the vaccines. The mRNA vaccines are instructing immune systems to make spike proteins and these spike proteins might be harmful. Big pharma is saying that the spike proteins are not harmful but they also said that the opium in opioids was not harmful. The article below details a study that found the spike proteins alone damaged cells and that could be a problem if booster shots containing spike proteins are required every few months.
https://www.salk.edu/news-release/the-novel-coronavirus-spike-protein-plays-additional-key-role-in-illness/
Yeah the border is mess. The hypocrisy of forcing mandates on citizens while letting people who illegally enter pass freely through without an iota of testing is maddening, even shipping them in droves around the country. It makes no sense.
Indeed, side effects of any vaccine, or any medicine of any type, should be a concern. Blind faith is never wise. The most any of us can do is have a discussion with a medical professional and make the best decision possible based on the most currently available information. The technology for mRNA delivery has been around for some time (it first started development in the 80s), but was never employed until now. It actually has the potential for other future applications, as long as it turns out not to have widespread or long term side effects. Everyone should be allowed to make their own decision on the matter.
That article is describing the spike proteins that comprise the virus, not the vaccines. In fact, it specifically says "which behave very differently than those safely encoded by vaccines." But it is new, and we should all be wary, and seek the advice of a medical professional. Of course, there's also the couple of batches of Moderna now that have been produced with containments, microscopic metal particles, so there's also an issue with quality control to be concerned about.
But by and large the vaccines have had a net positive effect. In recent cases, because that positive effect has waned, we see COVID ramping back up. Whether a booster is truly wise or not the pros will have to decide, and from what I've read it should be fine as long as the previous vaccine has truly waned. However, some studies suggest that it is possible to over-vaccinate to the point of crashing the immune system, which is another reason why indiscriminately forcing vaccines onto people without first testing to make sure they truly need it is such a bad idea. If they want to truly follow the science, follow the science.
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Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.
Thats like saying most red stop lights donât mean you really need to stop.
The literal definition of âvaccineâ is immunity. Because a trillion dollar industry and their Democrat media/party/lemmings claim otherwise doesnât make it so.
But "immunity" means:
im·mu·ni·ty ( Âč-myâșânÂč-t¶) n. pl. im·mu·ni·ties Abbr. immun. 1. The quality or condition of being immune. 2. Immunology Inherited, acquired, or induced resistance to infection by a specific pathogen. 3. Law a. Exemption from normal legal duties, penalties, or liabilities, granted to a special group of people: legislative immunity. b. Exemption from legal prosecution, often granted a witness in exchange for self-incriminating testimony.
"Resistance", not "prevention".
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Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.
1. The quality or condition of being immune.
IMMUNE
adjective
*Not subject to an obligation imposed on others; exempt.
Having legal immunity.
*Not affected by a given influence; unresponsive.
*Of or relating to immunity or an immune response.
*Having resistance to a specific pathogen.
*Having or producing sensitized antibodies or lymphocytes that react to specific antigens.
noun
*One who is exempt; specifically, one who is protected from a particular disease by inoculation or by a previous attack.
Yup. That's definitely a slight rephrasing of the same definition.
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Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.
He thinks it's a different definition. He's suffering from a learning disability.
shareHow did it fail ?
If he's not hospitalized or on his death bed, how did it fail ?
A vaccine is supposed to provide immunity from infection and it did not do that. The vaccine failed when a fully vaccinated man caught said virus. I'm not sure how long it takes for a covid sufferer to go to the hospital but it's still possible.
Do you consider the vaccine to be a failure when the recipient is hospitalized or dies? I consider the vaccine a failure when someone catches the virus. It's good to know what people consider success or failure. Most people who are hospitalized or die are fat/old and/or have underlying conditions.
You may want to read up on the vaccine, before you make such inane statements.
The vaccine was never proposed to provide 100% immunity, just like the flu vax doesn't provide 100% immunity. What immunity it was proposed was to lessen the severity of the virus if one was infected with it - which means no severe symptoms and treatable outside of a hospital; a big difference from when there was no vax for the virus. The fatality rate for those infected with the vax has severely dropped from those fatalities without the vax.
Those without the vax and becoming infected with covid are filling up hospital beds and on respirators due to the severity of the illness without vax protection. Those who are dying have a much higher percentage of not having the vax than those who are vaxed.
Another thread that proves only one thing: The OPer is an idiot.
Every day someone will get pregnant despite using prophylactics. Does that mean condoms, birth control, etc don't work?
Another good use of whataboutism. A couple people brought up lightning strikes and seatbelts yesterday in their attempts to engage in whataboutism. People only engage in whataboutism when they can't make valid arguments.
Prophylactics are not 100% effective so there should not be a government mandate. It's a personal choice. It's my body and my choice.
I already explained to you yesterday that no vaccine is 100% effective; not even the polio vaccine. Why you keep repeating yourself is baffling.
shareI will keep posting breakthrough cases until people realize that the vaccine is not effective. The case yesterday was a vaccinated married couple who succumbed to covid and this is a separate case. I am not repeating myself.
shareI will keep posting breakthrough cases until people realize that the vaccine is not effective.
It's a perfectly valid comparison as it demonstrates you're arbitrarily introducing an impossibly high standard for this one thing. It exposes your special pleading.
The question is about the effectiveness of the vaccine, but now you're shifting the argument to a government mandate and bodily autonomy. Prophylactics are not 100%, but they should be used if one wants to avoid pregnancy. As noted below, the polio vaccine was not 100%. Surgery is not 100%. Few things, apart from maybe your guaranteed stupidity, are 100%. If people want to avoid contracting COVID, they're advised to take the vaccine. One breakthrough case only proves your ignorance of statistics.
Birth control is irrelevant to the conversation about covid vaccines and government mandates.
Ultimately, my goal is to inform people on the board that the vaccines are not effective and to argue against government vaccine mandates. I do believe vaccine efficacy, body autonomy and government vaccine mandates are all interrelated. Vaccines are not the only way to avoid contracting covid.
I don't trust the statistics since people and companies get paid based on statistics. There is too much manipulation of statistics so I prefer to post individual breakthrough cases.
Beliefs that are not informed by facts need not abuse facts. If someone takes bodily autonomy as morally axiomatic, then there is no threshold by which they would accede to a government mandate. Even an impossible 100% effectiveness would subvert prioritized rights.
One of the arguments many people find compelling against the death penalty is that the accused could be innocent, and since there is no remedy for someone mistakenly sent to the grave, we must abolish the practice. I don't share that view. I take it as fundamental that limited government means states do not have the authority to execute their own citizens, even if we fully know the accused is guilty. It would not make sense for me to argue that someone could be innocent as that fact is moot. Interestingly, right-wing anti-vaxxers most likely support state injected poison.
If the facts are not on your side -- and they're not -- then you pound the law. Anyone with their head not in the sand will concede the vaccines are effective. Their argument is that vaccine effectiveness does not necessarily justify government coercion. It's not a good argument, but it's what you have.
There you go again with your death penalty whataboutism. The death penalty is irrelevant to the conversation about covid vaccines, body autonomy and governmental mandates. This thread is not about the death penalty.
I disagree with everything you've typed. We might see in a few months or years if the vaccines were the solution to the problem. There are also some court challenges that might overturn some of these mandates but I'm hoping for a red wave that will restore freedom and uproot the tyranny that has overtaken this nation.
It would be helpful if you had any idea what you were discussing. It's not whataboutism; it's an illustration of a moral principle in action.
Yeah, it might take years to see if the vaccine works. Never mind Portugal. Never mind that people who are vaccinated are much less likely to get sick or die. Not only are you ignorant of informal logical fallacies, but you're innumerate, and possibly semi-literate.
Exactly.
Nothing is 100%. As I said a few days ago, no vaccine is 100% - not even the polio vaccine (it's effective rate is 97 -99%, not 100%). Why these Trumpers believe it's 100% or nothing is beyond logic.
In efficacy this vaccine is worse than pulling out.
shareHe's probably lying about being vaccinated ... but in any case if you read any further - he has no symptoms. That is what the vaccine does.
shareThey never claimed that vaccinated folks can't get Covid; they claim it results in a more minor case. But yes, that's questionable.
shareBiden said during the CNN town hall back in July that the covid vaccine would prevent infection, hospitalization and death. The vaccine should only be mandated for at-risk people if it only reduces the risk of serious infection.
"You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations," Biden said.
"This is a simple, basic proposition: If youâre vaccinated, youâre not going to be hospitalized, youâre not going to be in an ICU unit, and youâre not going to die," Biden said.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/joe-biden/biden-exaggerates-efficacy-covid-19-vaccines/
Biden just go by what Fauci says and he's wrong. The Fauci ouchy can lead to sudden deathy.
shareWow...Seriously, how are so many of you this dense? Yes, you can still test positive for covid if vaccinated, but the fact is, more than 99.99% of people fully vaccinated against Covid-19 have not had a breakthrough case resulting in hospitalization or death, according to the latest data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In other words, you're going to be asymptomatic, like Justice Kavanaugh is. Sounds a lot better to me rather than ending up on a ventilator.
https://abc7.com/covid-breakthrough-cdc-data/10923757/