Ummm, just Trump refusing to to cooperate with lawful subpoenas is against the law.
No it isn't. With respect, our system is very different from a parliamentary system (which may be what you have). The Founders devised a federal government with 3 separate, co-equal branches with checks and balances. The Chief Executive (President), elected independently by the nation, does
not serve at the pleasure of the legislature. He can't be ousted with a no confidence vote. And he possesses universally recognized "executive privilege" rights that, among other things, safeguard the secrecy necessary to do his job (like confidential conversations with top advisers; sort of like attorney-client privilege). These rights have been recognized from George Washington through Obama.
Congress and the President may disagree on whether something legitimately falls under Executive Privilege, or other turf battles, and traditionally that's settled by the third branch, the courts. While Trump was willing to abide by court decisions over these subpoenas, the Democrats weren't and sought to bypass the Judicial branch rather than arguing their legal case.
As even liberal legal scholar Jonathan Turley observed, by making the mere assertions of rights in court an impeachable offense, House Democrats were the ones abusing their power.
If you think that sites that have been around for much longer than Trump has been in office are extremely partisan, than I don't know what to say to you.
Surely you know that partisanship long predates Trump. So does that aforementioned bias.
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sslssg (35200)
5 years ago
I realize that partisanship predates Trump. I am talking about the sites that have fact checked whomever is in power regardless of party.
Executive privilege only is in play when revealing said information would impair government functions.
Look, all I want to ask you is would you be okay with this if it was Obama or Clinton?
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krl97a (5619)
5 years ago
Again, their extreme bias was commented on by many including me long before Trump came along.
A President not being able to confide in his top advisers would definitely impair his ability to do his job.
Obama and Clinton both did far worse stuff than this. Obama presided over real scandals like the IRS abuse suppressing conservative groups ahead of his second election, Fast and Furious, Benghazi etc., in some of which people died, yet Republicans never pushed to impeach him. I might have supported impeaching Obama if a special counsel had been appointed that tied him to crimes involved in those scandals, but his cronies at the DOJ blocked any investigation with teeth from ever happening, so I didn't call for his impeachment.
As chief law enforcement officer Trump was actually doing his job. There's nothing wrong with simply inquiring about the truth of a widely reported potential corruption case involving a US Vice President and a billion dollars of tax payer money. We still need a real investigation of that Biden mess.
The irony is that it was the Obama administration and Clinton campaign that sought foreign dirt on Trump that they knew was BS, and lied on FISA warrants to spy on his campaign.
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sslssg (35200)
5 years ago
So why hasn't Trump released his tax returns yet?
I honestly just wanted to talk to kspkap, as I wanted to know what she thought. I really have no interest in debating this further. I've read some of your other comments and I don't think that we can be objective in this conversation as you seem to be very partisan and I have no horse in this race, so thank you, but I'm bowing out.
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krl97a (5619)
5 years ago
His tax returns? Seriously? Why should he? What does that have to do with the topic? Seems like you're the one just tossing out random partisan talking points, while I generously took time to explain things to you in my own words.
If you only want one person to reply to your posts, then instead of posting in a public thread, where someone like me might take issue with your false claims, there's a private message function you might want to try to communicate with that poster.
Have a nice day.
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sslssg (35200)
5 years ago
Fine.
His tax returns were subpoenaed. What this has to do with this conversation is that Trump seems to disregard the law. Why will he not release them? He has been saying that he will for years. You ask why he should? I ask what is he hiding? Why isn't he. Why do other presidents?
This whole impeachment is about Ukraine, and you even said 'There's nothing wrong with simply inquiring about the truth of a widely reported potential corruption case involving a US Vice President and a billion dollars of tax payer money. We still need a real investigation of that Biden mess.' But he asked for a quid pro quo or he didn't. The senate refused any witnesses that could have shed any light on whether or not there was a quid pro quo.
But back to the corruption of Biden and his son. Why does that need to be investigated but not Trump? How much money is he earning by being president? What about the use of his hotels for foreign dignitaries? How much does it cost tax payers for him to go to Mara Lago, that also goes into Trump's pocket?
If Biden should be looked at, so should Trump. If Trump isn't being investigated, then why should Biden be?
I guess I should have replied to her privately. I am done with this conversation and won't be replying anymore.
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krl97a (5619)
5 years ago
The attempt by partisans to get his personal tax returns is a legal case that's still making its way through the courts. That's how the system works, and has nothing to do with impeachment. Trump certainly isn't breaking the law by asserting legal rights in court. I don't give a crap about his tax returns nor do most Americans. Sane people are judging him by his tenure in office.
We know there was no quid pro quo on Ukraine because the aid was released with no investigation announced, not that such a quid pro quo would have been a crime anyway (diplomacy is largely about quid pro quo). We also know that the Ukrainians didn't even know the aid was suspended, let alone what conditions may have been tied to it, so no quid pro quo demand was made. We have heard from the people in a position to know.
Trump has been investigated on baseless charges his entire presidency. One partisan conspiracy theory after another has been debunked. By contrast the Bidens' undeniable conflict of interest and potential corruption has not been investigated.
It's time to do that.
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NormaAndNorman (3900)
5 years ago
"So why hasn't Trump released his tax returns yet?"
It's not REQUIRED. Sure, presidents normally do but it isn't required.
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