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RustyShacklefurd's Replies
I'm well aware of the dialogue in the first Thor movie that you're talking about. It's complete b.s. because it's made clear in the comic books that Thor is a god. That dialogue is completely abandoned in every subsequent movie with Thor. In subsequent films Thor and the rest of his family are repeatedly referred to as gods by others. In Thor: Ragnarok Hela repeatedly refers to herself as the Goddess of Death but Thor and Loki never even try to correct that claim. They never tell her that she's really just a very powerful "being" or "alien" who's merely "worshipped" as the Goddess of Death. They take it for granted that she really is the Goddess of Death.
And could you even explain to me the difference between Thor and an actual god? No matter what you may think Thor actually is, it's clear that his very existence is a challenge to Kamala Khan's supposed Islamic faith. She doesn't even try to reconcile her supposed Islamic faith with the existence of this supernaturally powerful being.
If you think that my argument doesn't make any sense then please explain to me why that is.
I was a fan of the original animated version of The Little Mermaid. I don't have to be a fan of the upcoming version or even have any intention of watching it in order to have a legitimate opinion about the wisdom of Disney's casting choice in the context of the film's central message. My opinion isn't hurting anyone. It's a generally accepted practice in society that people will publicly discuss their opinions of films, even films that they have no intention of watching. The more important question is why you have to shout at me.
Thor is a polytheistic version of a god. That is very different from the monotheistic version of God. The Christian/Muslim concept of God simply wouldn't apply to Thor. However, Thor is pretty much the same type of god that pre-Islamic Arabians believed in and that is very relevant in the context of a Muslim accepting the fact of Thor's existence. Islam wouldn't accept the existence of the MCU's Thor anymore than it would accept the existence of those pre-Islamic Arabian gods.
Captain America may have been a Christian or even just a deist at one point in time. We don't really know that he ever followed any actual religion. And if he was ever religious, we don't know that he maintained any religious beliefs after having met Thor. He only denied that Thor was a god before he had a chance to meet him. He never denied that Thor was a god at any point after their first meeting. Captain America's supposed Christianity/Deism may have been hinted at with that one line in The Avengers but it was completely ignored in everything both before and after in the MCU.
Please explain to me how my point is stupid and flawed. Because I sincerely can't see it. The mere fact that the actress who will play Ariel in the upcoming Little Mermaid movie is black doesn't actually bother me on its own. I say that in the context that I almost certainly wouldn't go see the movie even if she were white. I actually haven't seen a single Disney live-action remake of one of their animated films since 101 Dalmatians in 1996. I don't need to make up fake reasons not to see this movie.
The MCU will never resolve this issue because they don't even recognize it as an issue. All they want is a "Muslim" superhero. All that matters to them is Kamala Khan's superficial identity as a "Muslim superhero". All they want is the cultural credit they get for such political correctness. They got what they wanted. They have no reason to even address the issue of whether or not Kamala Khan is a real Muslim because it's an issue that no one even talks about. It's simply off everyone's radar.
The fact that Kamala Khan is a superhero fangirl proves me right. If Thor isn't really a god then that would make him a fraud. Why would she be a fan girl for a superhero she felt was a fraud? You don't seem to get that it doesn't matter whether she meets Thor in person and he tells her that he's a god. Thor exists, he calls himself a god and Kamala Khan accepts this as reality without ever having met him. She never challenges it in any way. Which is a direct challenge to the Muslim faith which she allegedly adheres to. Which means she can't really be a Muslim.
If Kamala Khan and Thor were to actually meet in person at any point in the MCU she would never be given the chance to challenge his status as a god. The MCU couldn't afford it. Either she would be wrong about him not being a god in which case her Muslim faith would be openly exposed as a joke or she would be right and the entire MCU would be exposed as a joke because the fact that Thor is a god and there are multiple other gods in the MCU has been a central tenet of the MCU for more than 10 years.
Your thinking is very superficial. Just because Kamala Khan goes to mosque and the show labels her a "Muslim" doesn't automatically mean that she really is a Muslim. Since the central belief of Islam is that there are no gods but Allah how can she really be "following the rules" of Islam if she acknowledges the existence of at least one other god? The fact that she hasn't met Thor yet, if she ever will, is irrelevant. The fact that she knows about Thor and merely acknowledges his existence is enough on its own to challenge Islam's central belief and therefore it's enough to challenge her status as an authentic Muslim. The very existence of Thor and all the other gods is actually a problem for all Muslims in the world of the MCU.
I'm saying that, hypothetically, if Eric wanted Ariel to be white and she had the ability to make herself white then she would do so. That's something we know about her character given that she's willing to completely change the lower half of her body. My point is that the message Disney is trying to send by making her black is completely contradicted by the larger message of the movie.
acidraindrop,
I don't even know if you're referring to javie or to me.
And that's important in the context of Kamala Khan being a supposed Muslim. Islam devised a central belief that there are no gods but Allah in order to stamp out belief in the multiple minor gods of pre-Islamic Arabia. Pre-Islamic Arabians believed in gods similiar to Thor. The MCU's Thor is exactly the kind of "god" that Islam refuses to acknowledge existing. In that context you can clearly see how absurd it is for Kamala Khan to really be a Muslim while also fangirling the Avengers. Islam clearly does not want its followers to acknowledge the existence of "alien beings with astounding strength and ability", especially not those with magically-derived strengths and abilities which are *not attributed to Allah*. Islam definitely does not want its followers to fangirl a man with the literal power of thunder who does not attribute his powers to Allah.
And you forget about the far more powerful gods in the MCU such as Ego, Arishem and Eternity. Surely you won't deny that these characters are gods. In Thor: Love and Thunder, Thor goes to stop Gorr the God Butcher from asking Eternity to kill all the gods. You have to at least acknowledge that Eternity is a god here. How can Kamala Khan legitimately be a real Muslim when she fangirls the central hero in this adventure? How can Islam possibly legitimately acknowledge even the existence of these "gods" or whatever you want to call them, their enormous powers and the astounding events surrounding them as portrayed in the MCU?
You're the one misunderstanding the MCU. What you're talking about is clearly just your own interpretation and it's an interpretation completely lacking any basis in the MCU itself. The MCU repeatedly refers to Thor, Zeus, etc. as gods because the MCU specifically views them as gods. The MCU never at any point states or even infers that they're just "viewed" as gods. They're both alien beings and gods at the same time. Thor is a god from another planet. He is not the capital-g God but he is still a lowercase-g god. Gorr the God Butcher is specifically called that by the MCU because the MCU views those he kills specifically as gods. That's why he's called Gorr the God Butcher instead of Gorr the Those-Who-Are-Worshipped-As-Gods Butcher. No one on Earth, including Kamala Khan, "knows" that Thor is not a god. The MCU provides absolutely no basis for asserting otherwise.
You mistakenly talk about the MCU's Thor and Zeus as "alien beings with astounding strength and ability" as if that were somehow different from "gods". But that's exactly how Thor and Zeus were actually viewed in ancient times. Thor and Zeus were always viewed by those who worshipped them as "beings with astounding strength and ability". That's what it meant to be a god. Your description of the MCU's Thor doesn't actually disprove his actual status as an actual god.
I can't really answer your question unless you're more specific about what it is that you don't understand.
Thor is most definitely a god. He is only an alien is the sense that he is an alien to the people of Earth but that does not in any way change his status as a god. Throughout the MCU films he is repeatedly referred to as a god (as are the rest of his family). It is never at any point denied that he is a god. The villain from Thor: Love and Thunder is called Gorr the God Butcher because he goes around killing gods. He wants to kill Thor because Thor is a god. Kamala Khan is certainly not "aware" that Thor is just an alien and not also a god. She's a big fan of The Avengers so she clearly knows that Thor is the God of Thunder.