Very bizarre media push
So everyone is just gonna pretend like Jeti Li and Jackie Chan movies don't exist? I get a similar vibe when Black Panther came out. Everyone forgot that the Blade movies happened.
shareThey didn't care about the Blade movies, because at the time Marvel superhero movies was a niche market. Same with Jackie Chan movies. A niche market in the west. You don't read blogs complaining about how DC doesn't have a black or Asian superhero movie yet do you? Because the DCEU sucked. They only parasite already successful franchises.
shareI wouldn't say niche, they were popular in the 90's and very prominent hence the like. These days I miss Jet Li as I watched him as a kid as well as Jackie Chan but since he's turned communist, he's lost his way. I like his movies but I dislike him as a person now.
shareYou think Jackie Chan is a billionaire and communist? How much a simpleton do you have to be to believe that? You might as well believe Warren Buffett is communist too.
Jackie Chan is a socialist, he believes billionaires should be socially responsible and take better care of the poor. And of course corporate media told the poor to hate him, ironic, isn't it?
Does he want to join the CCP to undermine it from within?
shareJackie is a huge supporter of the Chinese Communist Party. This is known.
shareYes, but what mainstream media do not tell you is that "Chinese Communist Party" is not communist. Of course there is no real communist country after Soviet fell. But from what I understand China from the beginning to end never claimed to be communist, only socialist. I think the name was a legacy to please the Soviet.
Think about it, how many billionaires China has now, I bet even you can name a few. And you think "Chinese Communist Party" is communist?
Sometimes I am kind of amazed what media can do.
Economically, they are a weird hybrid economy. I am not concerned about their economics.
What makes the CCP distasteful and unacceptable is their authoritarian nature, which we see in nearly all countries that end up calling themselves communist OR socialist: China, North Korea, the Soviet Union, Cambodia when under the control of the Khmer Rouge and so on. Marxist ideologies constantly end up resulting in corrupt authoritarian regimes that are willing to do sick shit to their own people in order to maintain power and control.
The CCP is no exception and if Jackie wants to support that shit, fuck him.
That is another thing media trained you to think, and trust me you are not the only one programmed to think that way.
In western countries where you and I live, we have something called liberal democracy. And we are programmed to think it is great. But you do know there are this thing called lobbyists. And I think you know the last US federal election cost $6 billion. First year after Biden off as vice president he took in $11 million, second year $4 million. After Obama was off as president he was paid half million dollars per 20 minute speeches to bankers (No wonder there was no banking reform). but he was not presidential candidate anymore so he did not have to declare his income like Biden did, so we don't know how much he was taking, but I bet it was much more than Biden. These are all well documented.
So our governments are ruled by corporate elites, China is ruled by political elites. But we have this facade of elections to determine which faction of corporate elites get to rule the government.
Our media are surprisingly all owned by corporate elites, and think what they would say about a country not ruled by them.
Also China is not authoritarian, is one party rule. Being authoritarian is more like one person rule, like kings or queens. China is not even unique, both Vietnam and Singapore are one party rule and they are our allies. Vietnam does not even go through the charade of elections like Singapore did (Singapore is ruled by the same political party since founding and they had regular elections, interesting, isn't it?), but you don't hear much of that, do you?
Think what media are telling you. Most of time instead of news we are fed narratives. Only when you start to think, the deprogramming can start. Then again it is up to you, I don't think it will change your life either way that much.
Me, I read way too much, it becomes a problem sometimes.
I presume then you have read about:
- China's "social credit" system, which makes life increasingly difficult for anyone who does not think and act as they want their citizens to think and act
- China's lack of free expression and censored Internet that only allows the information that they want their citizens to be exposed to
- Widespread religious discrimination
- Systematic harassment, subjugation and internment of the Uyghur population
Is China a country you would want to live in? I certainly wouldn't. Fuck all of that shit.
OK, let's start with some facts. From what I understand there are 10 times more mosques in Xinjiang alone than in entire US. So what religious discrimination? Allowing Islam?
From what I understand there are at least 30 private Christian schools including a private Christian university in Shanghai alone. So what are we talking about here?
Secondly, I heard about China's "social credit" system, to my great surprise, it doesn't exist. I think it was a proposal, not even sure it was from Chinese government.
As for China's lack of free expression and censored Internet. Is China a country you would want to live in? No, I have been to China before, and can't access bloomberg was a great inconvenience, but I do understand why, since I do read bloomberg regularly for my investments, but like I said before it talked about China in very negative ways. It is really just corporate propaganda, why would China allow corporate propaganda on their people, to let them think the way you do?
But "free expression" is a great topic. What is "free expression"? If you think a little deeper you will find it has nothing to do with you. Because none can hear you without a corporate platform, so it is really something for the corporate media. To allow them control our thoughts.
You can say I have a social media account and millions of followers. I am not corporate media and I will have my say. Well, Trump thought that too, I think you know what happened. If the president of united states can not escape corporate censorship, who has free expression?
You may want to read a little more widely and deeply.
In China, there are approved Christian churches and then there are underground house churches. Why do the house churches exist? Because the official churches are controlled by the CCP. It's Christianity, CCP-style, and if you actually want to teach unfiltered from the Bible you have to do it underground and risk imprisonment. (And that is no idle threat. Many Christian ministers have been arrested.)
Regarding the social credit system, did these Business Insider reporters just fabricate this story out of thin air?
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4
The social credit system exists. You can find a lot of information about it. It's not someone's imagination. There was an MMA fighter a little while back who had his flight privileges taken away because he embarrassed too many traditional kung fu artists, which the CCP didn't care for.
Regarding free expression, I do not disagree with you that corporate media is way too powerful and that corporations in general have way too much control. But it is important that legally we have a right to speak our minds and that is why we must fight for our constitutional protections of free speech. In China, you have no such protections.
Furthermore, with the Internet, random people DO get heard now. Unfortunately, doing so usually requires the use of social networks and other such sites, like YouTube, Facebook, Twitter and so on, and those companies can take your voice away whenever they want to.
I just read the news article, and it is lying or at least misrepresenting things. You just have to check the references, one of which they used was from China. To me that is the only one likely to be factual. They think none can't understand (They are not really trying to fool Chinese). But thankfully there is this thing called google translate.
If you read it through Google translate, you will find it is about these people refusing to enlist when drafted to serve their country and court issued punishment "According to the 'Military Service Law'" as following:
not to be hired as civil servants
not to go on to higher education within two years
cancel their qualifications for applying for high schools, secondary schools (That is a bit lost in translation I think, they are definitely over high school age, probably they are not qualified for government community colleges)
be included in the personal credit "blacklist" (That is probably more to do with what you said, but hardly a comprehensive social credit system)
restrictions on going abroad (border) and the purchase of real estate, taking airplanes, taking high-grade trains and seats, traveling and vacationing in hotels above stars, and other high-consumption behaviors
restricting the provision of services such as loans and insurance;
refusal to perform military service and The punishment results are reported to the society through the media;
the county (city, district) government where the perpetrator is located can impose a certain amount of fines in accordance with regulations.
The above appears to be regional, related to Jilin City.
Fu'an City, Fujian Province issued a "ticket" to two persons who objected to military service, including a one-time financial fine of 30,000 yuan, and the permanent words "Rejection to Military Service" in the "Service Column" of the individual household register were not allowed to be processed within 3 years. Penalties such as going abroad and exit procedures.
So in another region, punishment issued by court is different. It is really a case by case basis.
I think those are mostly from rich families who do not want to enlist. So the punishment is mostly to deny them luxury and subsidized government services (high speed trains and public schools) for a number of years.
To me the punishment is surprisingly lenient, considering conscription evasion is a crime, in most countries would result in criminal record and prison terms.
Edit: Actually there is a mistake I made here. High speed trains should be "high grade trains" from Google translate, I think it could mean you can't buy first class tickets or something. Then again they could be the same thing.
"approved Christian churches" I kind of have to smile while reading it. From what I understand China has a different church. Basically not rooted from Rome. Like UK has Church of England, it is a separate hierarchy from Rome.
I think you understand a bit about lies and propaganda related to China now. So I have great doubts about any of those are credible at all.
Reading your responses I can see that your responses are just going to be "well I think that article is misleading or lying" and "well, I just don't believe that, that's propaganda."
You basically just said, "Well I don't like all this stuff the article you posted says so I'm just going to go 'oh well that's propaganda.'"
Regarding the situation with Christian churches in China, all you have to do is listen to the Christians there and also listen to the missionaries there. Have you done much of either?
Frankly, you sound like a CCP disinformation agent.
In any case, it's obvious that you are just going to sweep away any evidence that might be contrary to your current viewpoint, so I don't see any reason to keep going with this conversation.
Like I said before it is up to you. I don't think it will change your life either way that much.
shareAnd the evidence was in the article you quoted. Like I said you just have to read the references.
sharePrime, you really should listen to fc31. The CCP are souls of the purest virtue, right up there with the holiest saints you can name.
shareDude, I think you are taking it way too far. If I convinced you of that then I am sorry.
When bad guys fight other guys, that doesn't mean the other guys are the good guys. I mean they could be, but you just don't know that yet.
I like socialist ideas and I don't like being lied to. China is definitely not what corporate media said. Once you are aware of the narratives they are trying to push you will see they are full of lies. But that alone does not mean socialists are saints. Just they might not be bad guys at all.
You could be trying to be sarcastic, but I have been dealing with way too many simpletons before to risk it.
Do you regard what they're doing to the Uyghurs as fantasy? Also corporate propaganda? That's not a real thing that's happening?
BTW regarding the Christian church in China, I guess this is also corporate media propaganda:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/china-christians-religious-persecution-translation-bible
Just lies and falsehoods, amirite?
I do know about the Uyghurs, at least better than the most. I researched the topic and there are YouTubers been to Xinjiang. One of them was an Indonesian woman, she worked as a teacher in China, visited Xinjiang I think about 3 years ago, before this entire thing, talking about Muslim lives in Xinjiang and what she thought of it. Her name is Syifa Adriana, you can check out her youtube channel, she left China long ago, so her channel is no longer about China: https://www.youtube.com/c/SyifaAdriana
Corporate media describing Xinjiang as hell on earth, but everything seemed to be great and Muslim community seemed to be quite OK. So image my surprise of what was reported.
Also on CGTN when a BBC reporter asking for a question in one of the Chinese press releases on Xinjiang issues she basically said before asking a question that she knew her colleagues made up the whole Xinjiang story.
So as it turns out the whole thing is actually a lie. They paid someone to create the lie then reported it as if they just discovered it.
And if you know about geopolitics then you can even understand why they went to so much trouble. It is disgusting and despicable.
And think about the brazenness of the lies. What is really the limit of these media propaganda?
I know much less about Christians in China, but I do know they are not that different from corporations, a lot of it is about money.
From what I understand there are laws regulating religions in China. The most important of all is about taking money from people, such as tithing, especially from poor people.
And I do know about the wealth of churches. I worked for a startup before in the beginning of my career in a Grade A, 39 story, CBD office building. Image my surprise when my boss told me the building belonged to United Churches, I mean the whole building.
Trust me churches don't like being regulated, especially about taking people's money. So if they are underground, most likely they are doing something illegal. It would not surprise me at all if they worked with corporate elites on many things.
I see, they couldn't be underground because the CCP likes to control over element of life in China, including religious life.
Why do you think the CCP wants to issue their own "approved" Bible translation?
Fact of the matter is that the Christian gospel tells people to put their trust in Christ, not the Chinese Communist Party, and that Christianity teaches that God is the ultimate authority and not the government. That's why the CCP hates it and wants to manipulate and control the churches.
When you know they are lying, why believe any of it?
Socialists protect poor and vulnerable people, that is what they do. You seem to have a problem with that.
I think even you can see through these lies now.
Socialism always leads to death, destruction and the violation of human rights. There are reams and reams of data to back this up. One would have to ignore history entirely to think otherwise.
shareI don't know why you are like this. Maybe you are a hardcore conservative or something. But what you said sounds more and more like propaganda.
Anyway, this is no longer an intelligent discussion, so I am no longer interested.
Maybe it is for the best. I mean ignorance is bliss. You could be a lot happier denying the inconvenient and unpleasant reality.
I agree it's no longer an intelligent discussion. I'm not sure that it ever was one.
Have a good evening.
Socialism is a scare word. https://historyhub.history.gov/thread/8516
shareI feel like I'm living in some twisted fantasy world when someone is defending the CCP.
shareBut it is important that legally we have a right to speak our minds and that is why we must fight for our constitutional protections of free speech. In China, you have no such protections.
I think we already discussed this. "Free speech" is not for you or any individual. The more you fight for the right of free speech the more power you are going to give corporate media.
You are picking the wrong fight, it is actually their fight. But I think people are programmed too well to think outside of that.
If you want to fight for free speech for you. You should fight for the social media platforms to be regulated, like they have no right to censor you and me. If there has to be censorship then there has to be a law on what could be censored, censorship should be decided by courts, not by corporate elites.
So are you willing to fight for a censorship law? Does that sound more and more like China? share
Now I think you can understand why corporate media hate China. When they say China has no protection for free speech, I think the censorship law is what they meant. Like I said before it's really their fight.
They are fighting for the right to lie to us and the right to censor us. That is what "Free speech" is and why "Free speech" and "Media freedom" are so important to them.
PrimeMinisterX was again outclassed in a serious discussion, as he usually is. And then goes radio silent once his points are broken down and disintegrated
shareI don't even know who you are.
shareYou got pwned in this discussion and I am a witness to that. That's all you need to know
You came across as very uneducated and ignorant and did not respond to fc31, but you respond to me so it is clear that you are aware of the notifications coming from this thread which is further proof of you conceding pwnage
No idea who you are but if you're pro-CCP then I know you're an asshole. Thanks for letting me know that.
Also, you're coming off as a weird stalker right now. It is not becoming that you follow someone around on a public forum and it makes you seem mentally unbalanced.
Nothing to do with CCP. It has everything to do with your responses up in this thread and the responses of the other guy and you clearly coming across as way less knowledgeable
And your replies to me just confirm that you are dead-set in your ignorance and unwilling to admit that you don't know much about the things you talk about
You resort quickly to personal attacks against me lol. You're an unintelligent person
You really do seem to be suffering from one it more psychiatric disorders.
I'll provide this for your benefit so you don't come across as an asshole in the future: The CCP is evil. There is plenty of evidence of this. If you really don't understand that, then truly whatever school system you feel up in has failed you. You are probably very young and you are the one who is ignorant.
Anyway, I'm pretty weirded out by your stalker approach and will be putting you on my ignore list. You can reply but I won't see it.