I liked seeing more of Sam's backstory, but is it really credible that an Avenger who helped save New York, then the Earth, then the entire universe, can't get a loan?
Seems to me he could get Pepper Potts on the phone and get whatever amount he wants from Stark Industries.
It does seem like he and especially his sister are trying to solve it on their own out of pride, however, so it's a minor quibble.
Short answer: No, it's not credible.
Long answer: The writers are (obviously) trying to go for a specific tale of struggle. . .without spelling out the circumstances that would make it plausible. Someone like Sam would have access to essentially LIMITLESS resources; plus he's got an absurd amount of goodwill. He could get a sponsorship from Nike, Apple, Burger King, or Elon Musk, and never have to worry about money again. He could start a GoFundMe, and never have to worry about money again. Et cetera, etc. . .but, again: the writers are shorthanding their way into a specific story they want to tell.
Shrug.
No tale is perfect; on balance, this one is pretty entertaining. I'm willing to go along for the ride, and see where they take it.
Yeah best not to think about it
The rescue in the opening sequence alone should be worth more than they’d need as a loan
Sam’s not in uniform after all - that means he’s a military contractor
Can’t see some elite Blackwater operative drawing minimum wage from the U.S. military
Good point too about endorsements and GofundMe — if Avengers can’t do endorsement deals, they’d have to be compensated accordingly
Oh well ... you’re right, best not to think about it too hard
It’s a bit disappointing though because Bucky’s “making amends” hassles are relatable while remaining completely consistent with the milieu
Never thought about the sponsorship angle. Even a secondary avenger like Falcon(who was a war hero) should have his own shoe deal at bare minimum.
No avenger would have to worry about money ever again.
It's unimaginable that an Avenger would be allowed endorsement deals, or that Sam would stoop to taking one even if such a thing were allowed.
shareAllowed by whom? At this point, the Avengers are a loose collection of super heroes with no leadership to speak of and Sam doesn't work for anybody at the moment.
And Stark's business clearly would have benefited from his Ironman status, so precedent has been set. There would be zero wrong with him slapping an Under Armor logo on his suit and taking a large check for it.
The Avengers work hand-in-hand with the government, and it would be ridiculous to think they'd allow them to accept endorsement money. This would be akin to the police dept. having Pepsi sponsor officers. What happens when the fire department is unable to save the Nike store, and it's pointed out that Adidas sponsors the firefighters in that town? If there were superheroes in the real world, they wouldn't be signing endorsements.
shareCouple things:
1) The sokovia accords didn't make them govt employees. It just put them under the jurisdiction of the UN.
2) There is absolutely nothing stopping any cop from doing a Pepsi commercial or being a spokesman for any other brand. Probably cant wear their merch while on duty or in in ad, but they can absolutely be up there. In Falcons case, he is his own brand and the government has zero rights to his likeness or uniform(I'm assuming he's flying a suped up Stark version of his wings and not the one stolen in Winter Soldier).
Would doing an ad be in bad taste? Debatable, but certainly possible.
Maybe the rest of the series will be about Falcon learning basic entrepreneurship skills, with the realization that he can raise millions in funds by literally lifting a finger.
shareI thought this was fucking ridiculous as well. No way would he even need a loan let alone be turned down for one.
shareYou can save Earth or even the universe multiple times, doesn't matter. That whole scene just shows who's the real boss: bankers.
I hate to say it but I watched superman and Lois...and Superman has money troubles!
share
That’s because Superman still has a secret identity to protect
He can only spend what Clark Kent can credibly earn
Still, seems like in that series his army general father-in-law knows full well who he is. So, like Sam, seems like the military should be willing and definitely able to compensate him for his contract work
Sure, but by your logic Superman can earn, right?
shareThis wokeism....that sub plot gives the imression that they can't get the loan because they are black.
shareNo. They can't get the loan due to his sister struggling for money and having no capitol and Sam not having any earnings over the last 5 years.
Can save the world 100 times but if you physically can't reapy a loan then why would they give it to him.
Race played no part on that scene no matter how much you want it to. I am one fo the first to call out woke bullshit but that wasn't it.
yes, she said so to the banker.
share
That’s looking for “woke” where it ain’t
It’s completely opposite
The loan officer literally idolized Sam
no, the woke was there. she said it.
share[–] ExTechOp (1413) 2 days ago...and yet not ONCE did the banker, loan officer or whatever he was, "Thank Him For His Service" as an Avenger or as a Veteran.
That’s looking for “woke” where it ain’t
You weren't paying attention. Race was not a factor. You're grasping at straws here.
sharethat's exactly what the sister said, that it is a race issue.
so i guess you were not paying attention ...
She began trying to make it out as one, and he corrected her. They bent over backwards to make it clear that race wasn't coming into play, but there will always be a few of you who need race to be an issue in everything...
shareYeah, but still, the woke implication was there, the implication that she assumed to be racially motivated and that it is a wide spread thing but in THIS case is not because he is a fan of Sam.
So you cannot deny the implication and the woke race baiting are present because they are, right in our face.
I'd argue it's the opposite.
shareOf course you would. Like any woketard, would deny the truth even when it's in front of them.
Although you admitted that she "made it as one" - that's the woke part right there, no need to go further.
Why resort to insults? Especially unfounded ones, i.e. assuming I'm "woke."
shareBeing woke is not an insult per se.
Maybe you're right, i shouldn't have, But ... when you defend a woke scene saying that it didn't happen ... you kinda brought it to yourself ...
Look, I liked the first episode, even though it has some woke elements, but almost everything now needs to have some wokeness, unfortunately. And while i get it still it sticks too much sometime.
I mean, sometime I'm like "ok, this is woke, but wasn't that bad or cringe" (like this scene) and give it a pass. But still, I brand it as a "woke scene" even if it doesn't bother me and I only make a note of it.
There's nothing "woke" about that scene whatsoever.
She (may) think race played a factor. Sam is sure it doesn't. The manager is clearly star-struck. All of these elements grind the gears, and the story proceeds.
It's hilarious watching the pendulum yaw wildly back and forth. You people shouting across either side of the aisle are missing the forest for the trees.
Go ahead and decide what the writers intended, hold it close to your heart, and sit contentedly with it. Even if you insist on thinking Sam's sister is "woke," that has nothing to do w/the unbiased perspective of the scene, and what it's describing as it moves the story along.
The gist of the scene is this:
agent: I admire you, and wish I could give you the loan, but your numbers don't allow it.
her: We didn't get the loan because of race
him: No, we didn't get it because we didn't qualify.
That is reality, which, in my opinion, is the opposite of woke. The entire woke concept is that there is systemic racism holding back people of color, and/or racist people in power. The show was realistic in that even if someone is quick to assume racism, when the facts say otherwise, that person is told they are wrong.
If the scene were woke, it might play out more like this:
agent: Sorry, I just can't give you the loan. Your numbers look okay, but it's not enough.
her: We didn't get the loan because of race
him: Even though I'm an Avenger, some people can't see past the color of my skin.
None of this is to say that racism doesn't exist, and if a show does include an instance of racism, even that, in my mind, doesn't qualify as what we call woke, but that's an entirely different discussion.
It was woke BECAUSE the scene included "because of race". There was no need for it.
I know, it's real and it happens, but it had no place here. Specially after I admire you ...
Then we just disagree. I don't think the mere mention of race or racism qualifies a show as woke. That's what I admire most about the MCU-- they acknowledge reality in terms of race, gender, social issues, and so forth, but never put forth an opinion. Nothing is preachy, and politics never enter into it. They keep things focused on entertainment, and never try to make a statement.
shareyup, we disagree.
And MCU never try to make a statement??
REALLY???
Cpt Marvel is a 100% woke statement.
I'm in complete opposition to wokeness/woke politics, and think it's complete lunacy, but saw zero evidence of anything remotely woke in Captain Marvel. Having a female lead does not mean "woke."
shareWatch Alien/Aliens (or even the first Wonder Woman) and the Captain Marvel again.
Maybe you will see the difference between a "non-woke" female led movie and a woke one ;)
If not it means your are way more woke than you think.
But we already knew this, right? ;)
"Brie Larson (Captain Marvel) has expressed herself as a raging feminist. She said in an EW interview that Captain Marvel was all about “intersectional feminism” and playing the character was her “form of activism”. She is quoted as saying she does not want “40 year old white dudes” to have an opinion on her films."
https://reason.com/2019/03/08/captain-marvel-woke-message-movie/
I know "you disagree" - but can you ask yourself ... why do you disagree?
The actress may have real-life opinions, but I don't know what they are. I'd never heard of her before seeing her in Captain Marvel. As for having a "woke" message, I'd put forth that Wonder Woman was somewhat heavy-handed in the feminist message, as opposed to Captain Marvel, which ignored the topic altogether.
The article you linked is fairly nonsensical. They establish that the actress is politically confused, and proceed to read all sorts of things into the film that aren't there. Vers acted disaffected and alien because she was an alien. She'd lost her human side, and was trying to channel the persona of her adopted Kree race, which was at war with her true, forgotten self. Like you, the author is so caught up in her being female, and being played by Larson, that you're both grasping at anything you can twist to fit your narrative.
For what it's worth, I believe you, and others like you, do a disservice to those of us who use fact and logic to stand up to the woke left. You're not much different than they are in that you're more concerned about finding offense where it doesn't exist than in focusing on the true problems we face. It's hard enough going against a side that has all the power behind them without people like you giving them easy targets for dismissing those opposed to their nonsense.
You standing to the woke crowd? Muaahahahaha, that's a precious one.
You cannot see woke even when it hits you.
It was very believable. Often, famous individuals are not wealthy. Also recall that he vanished for 5 years, so his finances are likely in shambles. And, he's not the type to beg and grovel. He's a proud, confident man, so his first thought when faced with hardship isn't to go beg to the rich widow of someone he barely knew, and was in conflict with before he died.
share
Good point, it’s clear both Sam and his sister are exactly the kind of “too proud to beg” that gets into this sort of trouble
It's not in the least bit believable.
You people are getting caught up in the particulars, w/o considering the fact of the matter.
"Nike," "Apple," etc are just examples. If you can't think of MULTIPLE entities. . .corporate and otherwise. . .that would be willing & able to sponsor Sam for name recognition, you're just refusing to think. I'm not gonna spin out a bunch more examples, because that would defeat the purpose.
The idea that "famous individuals are *often* not wealthy" is similarly absurd. There's no real-world analogue for the type of "fame" a superhero would have, but, again: there's not a single human being on the planet w/that type of cachet that has money problems like those described in this episode. Sam's got a business plan, has crunched the numbers, and has gov't contracts lined up. There is simply No Way he'd have a problem getting a loan, from any one of a NUMBER of institutions/individuals/crowdfunding sources. Endof.
What you're saying doesn't make sense, and it doesn't match the reality in which we live. Of course we can say that since superheroes are involved, then all bets are off, but I'm looking at it through a lens of reality. In our real world, fame does not equal wealth. In our real world, being a government agent, U.N. included, means following a LOT of rules regarding what you can say and do in public, including endorsing a product or taking payment from a corporate entity. I think it's reasonable to say that if superheroes existed, in the way presented in the MCU, they would not be highly paid for what they do.
shareFilmbuff, I totally agree with you and understand what you are saying. Too many are thinking and using The Boys, Netflix's Tiger & Bunny or maybe even "Mystery Men" which were all about Fame, Image, Corporate sponsorship, Branding with abuse of power.
Playing by the rules wont get you rich as a Military Contractor but it can get you filthy rich (Mark Prince, Halliburton, Blackwater, etc) if you circumvent the rules, or you can even Double Dip, overcharge and do missions or contracts off the books. 😎
Sam was following the rules and had only done missions or contracts for roughly a few months or as they say "a hot minute". He might have even been volunteering at the VA when he teamed up with Steve and Nat. Might have been Ex-Military and optioned out of any more Special projects because of losing his wingman Riley. Sam appeared to be dealing with guilt because he felt helpless and was also trying to cope with how Ex-Military were being treated based on his conversation with Cap/Steve.
Bottom line Sam wasn't trying to "cash-in".
As far as corporate entities wanting to "Sponsor" Sam or even the Avengers that avenue was closed in this MC Universe as the amount of destruction that the Avengers caused was an EXTREME liability that no company wanted to be associated with. The entire Military Industrial Complex has no "Corporate" or Private sponsorship because it is mostly all tax-payer backed. The Tax-Payers just don't understand. No private or public corporation could ever afford the liability of Collateral Damage, Extra-Judicial assassinations and killings that would follow.
In this very real world I don't see Blackwater Security garnering any Corporate Sponsors. I'm not sure if they are even a publicly run company or has ever gone public even though they probably wanted to?
As a retired air force officer his pension is around 60 grand a year. So his money sat in a bank for 5 years earning compound intrest. He should have close to a million bucks in the bank.
shareFor starters, if he did get a pension, which is not guaranteed, after taxes and at current interest rates, he'd have about $180,721.44 in the bank, not "close to a million."
Secondly, I doubt the pension was even being paid, as he died and wasn't married. Third, we don't even know that he qualified for one. Fourth, if he did, and it was paid out, perhaps it went to someone who spent or kept it.
Half the world vanished for five years. There would be programs in place to accommodate those people. Judge them by their finances before they disappeared.
shareWhere was this money going to come from for the returning people? How do you stop scams from draining all of the already diminished financial resources? Billions of dollars are currently being scammed due to the Covid-19 Pandemic and Billions of more dollars have been scammed with the Stimulus relief package that went out one year ago along with billions diverted to large undeserving companies that took advantage of the available monies. Small companies and entrepreneurs were frozen out and their businesses are now gone.
No. Those that remained (businesses and people) during the BLIP probably were not all that magnanimous to EVERYONE that would be returning. How many people cashed in on death insurance policies? Every company would have completely lost their reserves paying those claims. Did those who returned have the beneficiaries return the money?
Programs take time to be setup and even when they are certain groups or organizations want to have a say-so on who should get relief and how much they should get.
Yeah, your argumentation fails short because he is the fucking Falcon, he is NOT "everyone".
shareAnd? Some of the most discarded people in first-world countries (i.e., America) are military Veterans.
Some of the best and bravest people that walk/walked the planet also make up the highest demographic of homeless and poverty-ridden in America.
Not all heroes are awarded/rewarded for their service, as evident by real life.
Are you that dense?
Falcon = random veteran that no one heard about?
It is not believable.
When the gear he has on him worth hundreds of millions and he does that type of missions he IS well paid.
Even if she is too proud to accept help from him she CAN accept a loan from him. And he can easily come with the money ... one call to Stark enterprises would had been enough ...
Batman: I bought the bank.