How is this show in the woke/diversity scale? - WandaVision (2021) Discussion

[–] unsanesarah (249) 4 years ago

Honestly I have been impressed so far with their restraint. The first black characters appeared in the 60s setting, not the 50s one, making it plausible, if improbable. They could have just done it in the first one but it would have felt jarring just based on what we know of 50s shows. And when they did come in they were very natural. No other types of wokeness that I noticed at least. I do think the people making this are trying hard to make something genuine. As I said in another thread, this is Marvel so there is a very good chance they waste the effort on some CGI battle mess at the end, but so far so good.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

Thank you. I think I'll give it a try.

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[–] Threadkiller (3075) 4 years ago

Demented white supremacist inbred logic: "Hey. This show starring the superhero witch lady & omnipotent android from the Avengers movie franchise, who appear to be trapped in some kind of surreal, ever changing Black Mirror style simulated reality that so far seems to be an existential parody of old American sitcoms of the 50s & 60s, better not have any of that totally "woke" diversity crap like having a black character because THAT is what would be unrealistic...."

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[–] Burk48917 (11354) 4 years ago

There was nothing remotely white supremacists about that reply, you virtue signaling piece of shit.

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[–] wrecche (631) 4 years ago

lol

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[–] Threadkiller (3075) 4 years ago

Demented white supremacist inbred logic:

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[–] Threadkiller (3075) 4 years ago

and so on

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

[...] some kind of surreal, ever changing Black Mirror style simulated reality that so far seems to be an existential parody of old American sitcoms of the 50s & 60s [...] "woke" diversity crap like having a black character because THAT is what would be unrealistic...."

Actually, it would be unrealistic.

Fantasy genres are not random. They require established rules, internal logic and a well-thought worldbuilding. Creating such universes is not an easy task, to the point that fantasy universes that work well are often cloned. That happened, for example, to Tolkien's high fantasy LotR setting, which was cloned to death during the following years.

Elements that are added to that universe for the sake of political/ideological/religious propaganda¹ stand out and break immersion.

---
¹ Like Jews being evil in nazi movies, or Japanese being evil in Chinese movies, or Atheists being evil in Christian movies, or white males being evil in woke movies, or females being physically strong in woke movies, or blacks being intelligent in woke movies, or any other similar fantasy stuff.

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[–] AckbarsRevenge (3800) 4 years ago

blacks being intelligent in woke movies

Do you think blacks are generally less intelligent? Honest question.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

It's not about what I think. Blacks are on average less intelligent. That's a statistical fact.

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[–] AckbarsRevenge (3800) 4 years ago

But where can I find those statistics?

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

There's enough literature about the topic. Look for yourself, it's not that difficult.

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[–] AckbarsRevenge (3800) 4 years ago

Google doesn't provide me with any statistics regarding this topic. But if there's enough literature you could name a few titles I could look up. I find this an interesting question.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

Google is completely censored when it comes to politically incorrect topics, you're not gonna find anything there. If you wanna search about them, use duckduckgo, yandex or baidu.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=statictics+iq+by+race

yandex.com/search/?text=statistics%20iq%20by%20race

www.baidu.com/s?wd=statictics%20iq%20by%20race

Btw, this is an interesting study, since it's done with adopted children. That means that the environment was exactly the same for all of them, independently of the race. The difference in IQ between whites and blacks were about 10 to 15 points.
https://www.amren.com/news/2019/10/twin-studies-arthur-jensen-iq-race-differences/

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[–] AckbarsRevenge (3800) 4 years ago

Thanks. I'll have a look.

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[–] asom (6824) 4 years ago

That doesn't mean that some blacks cannot be intelligent. I would consider Neil deGrasse Tyson to be fairly intelligent although black and tbh i think there's a big chance he is more intelligent than you ...

So yeah, you are quite racist with this remark.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

That doesn't mean that some blacks cannot be intelligent.

Yeah, so what?

I would consider Neil deGrasse Tyson to be fairly intelligent

deGrasse Tyson is intelligent, but he's not particularly brilliant. If he was white, he'd be a standard unknown scientist among thousands. He enjoys the "special race" card, though.

So yeah, you are quite racist with this remark.

Let's remember my remark: "It's not about what I think. Blacks are on average less intelligent. That's a statistical fact.".

Years ago it was said that the truth would make you free. Nowadays, it seems that it makes you racist.

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[–] asom (6824) 4 years ago

you're racist for saying that blacks cannot be intelligent. And this IS a fact (that you are racist).

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

you're racist for saying that blacks cannot be intelligent.

I quote again my exact words: "Blacks are on average less intelligent. That's a statistical fact."

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[–] NorrinRad (5468) 4 years ago

[–] kukuxu (3463) an hour ago
you're racist for saying that blacks cannot be intelligent.

I quote again my exact words: "Blacks are on average less intelligent. That's a statistical fact."

The only fact in that quoted text above is that YOU personally think that blacks, African-Americans, coloreds or people of color match your opinion(s).

You'll root around on the interwebs, the internet, forums, cross-referenced articles and old tomes in a pseudo-intellectual research attempt to bolster what is and will always be nothing more than.....

your opinion.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

YAWWWWNNNN

Anyway, for anybody else who is interested, if you're gonna make your own research about the topic, don't use google. As a woke company, it considers that researching about this topic is a sin, and it has censored most results. You better use non-religious searchers as duckduckgo (for now), yandex or baidu.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=statictics+iq+by+race

yandex.com/search/?text=statistics%20iq%20by%20race

www.baidu.com/s?wd=statictics%20iq%20by%20race

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[–] NorrinRad (5468) 4 years ago

[–] kukuxu (3466) 10 hours ago
YAWWWWNNNN

Anyway, for anybody else who is interested, if you're gonna make your own research about the topic, don't use google.

Confirmation Bias on full display.

Sounds like you're recruiting? Humph, that is so odd. 😎

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

Sounds like you're recruiting? Humph, that is so odd.

Telling people to do their own research about the topic... sounds like recruiting... ahem...

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

You're doing your own research?? You're thinking for yourself??? HOW DARE YOU!!! 😂

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[–] asom (6824) 4 years ago

Nope, your EXACT words, in case you forgot:

"or blacks being intelligent".

That means that in your opinion is IMPOSSIBLE for blacks to be intelligent and they should only be portrayed as dumb, idiots, morons, etc.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

Let's quote it more completely:

"Jews being evil in nazi movies, or Japanese being evil in Chinese movies, or Atheists being evil in Christian movies [...] or blacks being intelligent in woke movies, or any other similar fantasy stuff."

Obviously, there's evil Jews, and evil Japanese, and evil Atheists, and even intelligent Blacks. It's not usual, but it happens. The sentence was a sarcasm about Nazi movies that portray every Jew as evil, or Christian movies that portray every Atheist as evil, or Woke movies that portray every black as intelligent and almost every white male as either evil or stupid.

Anyway, don't worry. Wokes, the same as other religious people, you have difficulties catching sarcasm and sense of humor in general.

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[–] asom (6824) 4 years ago

unfortunately in your case it's not the case.

i'm quite anti-woke but your blatant racism is quite visible, from the moon, even for me.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

i'm quite anti-woke

You're an obvious woke. One of the most characteristic traits of wokes is that you get triggered when people talk about the biological differences between genders or races, which is considered taboo. For a woke, talking about how blacks have lower average IQ is racism and talking about how women have lower upper body strength is sexism.

Whatever.

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[–] asom (6824) 4 years ago

are you stupid or something? Don't need to answer, it's rhetorical.

I wasn't triggered, i just pointed out that using averages in a distribution to "prove" that blacks cannot be intelligent and that they should not be painted as intelligent in movies because it's an impossibility is dumb AND racist.

can you see the difference? i guess not, maybe because statistically there's a big chance that you are more stupid than the average black ;)

i'm not triggered nor i deny the fact that ON AVERAGE blacks have lower IQ ( but I bet there are a LOT of blacks that are way smarter than YOU) or that on average women are around 30% weaker (physically) than men (but I bet there are A LOT of women that would kick your sorry ass).

using a bad understanding of science and biology to justify your racism is not the best idea.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

You sound very triggered 😂

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[–] asom (6824) 4 years ago

Not as triggered as you are by things that don't really matter (and I'm not talking about the blatant woke movies/etc).

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[–] Threadkiller (3075) 4 years ago

The on going self parody of white supremacist degenerates playing dumb with "because I said so" logic:

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[–] TheArgentinian (7059) 4 years ago

OP is a well-known white supremacist.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

You're a well-known rapist.

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[–] FFNogoodnik (775) 4 years ago

The sign he ordered for his office was made incorrectly. It said "THE RAPIST" when it should have said "THERAPIST". :)

As far as your original question goes, it goes with how you think of "woke". If you think that simply having minorities and women as main characters is a sign of being "woke" you *may* see this as woke.
IF however, you think that for a show to be "woke" it requires the characters to have a social issue as part of the story or their character then this is not "woke". There is nothing in any of the characters where their race or gender is point of their character.
In other words, this show is not about the race or gender of the characters and, imho, would not be considered "woke".

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

I understand for wokeness what's usually understood for wokeness: a political/religious gospel based in forced diversity, white demonization and male demonization.

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[–] raymondoz2007 (2098) 4 years ago

and your a well known antiFa marxist

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[–] Satan2016 (25525) 4 years ago

You are a deranged SJW, get help!

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[–] ultravioletx (10237) 4 years ago

Well said.

White grievers are so far up their own ass they gotta go to a message board and ask if the wokeness level is low enough for them to even watch it.

So dumb.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

White grievers are so far up their own ass they gotta go to a message board and ask if the wokeness level is low enough for them to even watch it

Asking about the level of religious propaganda in a movie is a legit question.

I don't like religious movies preaching the gospel. If the movie is Christian propaganda, I don't watch it. If the movie is Woke propaganda, I don't watch it. Period.

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[–] ultravioletx (10237) 4 years ago

Since it is such a problem, surely you can give an example of a DisneyPlus show that managed to slip in wokeness akin to religious propaganda without you knowing about it.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

can give an example of a DisneyPlus show that managed to slip in wokeness akin to religious propaganda

The Disney Star Wars movies.

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[–] ultravioletx (10237) 4 years ago

So you're a liar then. You were bitching about them when they were in theaters before DisneyPlus even existed.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

?????

Disney+ is just an online distribution channel owned by Disney. I'm talking about the content. I don't give a shit if you watch it in a movie theater, in Disney+, if you download it with torrent, or you project it on your ass and show it to your neighbors.

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[–] Kowalski (75520) 4 years ago

🤔WOW.

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[–] Nate Adams SA23 (902) 4 years ago

Indeed, wtf is going on in this thread. Just enjoy the show folks, it’s great. (Except for the slow pace)

Get over wokeness/anti wokeness. It’s a shit mindset

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

If you wanna eat whatever Hollywood throws at you, you're free to do so. Nobody is preventing you from enjoying trash movies and series as much as you want.

Some people have some minimum requirements, though. Please, respect that.

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[–] Nicko's Nose (1651) 4 years ago

So a movie/series automatically becomes trash if there’s black people in it?

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[–] cj3333 (1046) 4 years ago

Yes. Maybe a few naked chink women now and then. But that's it.

No, you fucking dumbass...

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[–] Nicko's Nose (1651) 4 years ago

"No, you fucking dumbass..."

I don’t think you know kukuxu very well.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

A movie that is woke is highly likely to be trash.

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[–] NorrinRad (5468) 4 years ago

[–] kukuxu (3423) 3 days ago
A movie that is woke is highly likely to be trash.

That is hilarious!!

Oh well, one person's trash is another person's treasure. Try watching before making a declaration.

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[–] wrecche (631) 4 years ago

While I do agree with this sentiment, what is woke about wandavision?

It's not supergirl, afterall...

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

A why are you asking me??? I haven't seen it, that's why I opened a thread asking people who had watched it whether it was woke.

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[–] wrecche (631) 4 years ago

Umm, I know the reply flow is a bit skewed by it's nature, but I was replying to the other guy.

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[–] FilmBuff (7234) 4 years ago

Keep in mind that ku kux u wrote earlier in this thread about the lack of realism in woke movies, which included "blacks being intelligent... or any other similar fantasy stuff. It's pretty clear what his thought process is, though he denies being a white supremacist.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

That's not 'white supremacism'. White supremacism is a political theory. IQ distribution in ethnic groups is just empirical data.
https://alfinnextlevel.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/race_and_iq_wikipedia.png

You can't assign any ideology to somebody for saying that the sky is blue.

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[–] asom (6824) 4 years ago

Talking about individual intelligence and presenting averages and DISTRIBUTION.

I hope you don't pretend to be intelligent on the basis that you are white ... or at least learn to read a graph before doing so.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

Talking about individual intelligence and presenting averages and DISTRIBUTION.

I'm talking about the systematic portrayal of different races in (woke) movies and series. Those "individuals" are not isolated exceptions. They're part of a common narrative and racial portrayal in modern Hollywood.

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[–] asom (6824) 4 years ago

nope, wrong. not true.

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[–] raymondoz2007 (2098) 4 years ago

I have seen 3 tv show that have obvious Elon Musk charcter. All 3 were played by blacks.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

And that's real racism. Its proper definition should be to portray some specific ethnic group much worse or better than they are in real life. And I don't know how which would the probability of an Elon Musk character being black in real life, in US. That probability is obviously lower than the demographics. Perhaps 1 in 100? 1 in 500?

Which would be the probability of getting 3 black Elon Musk in a row? once in 100 million times?

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[–] Nate Adams SA23 (902) 4 years ago

Jesus wept!

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[–] wrecche (631) 4 years ago

No one is forcing you to watch shit, jack... let alone come onto a board about said show and talk bollocks.

I'm sure there are some anime threads for you larpers to go furry about.

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[–] tom8 (3119) 4 years ago

bollocks"

buy some teeth, while Brexit hasn't closed all your borders

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[–] wrecche (631) 4 years ago

We use that term down here in Australia too, you know.. Where we have good dental health and are able to infuriate Americans and other nations, with our budgie smuggling prime ministers.

But if you want to sell your teeth, let me know how much. A tooth necklace would be sweet.

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[–] tom8 (3119) 4 years ago

I am not american you dumb fuck.

And of course you use British terms, you are the offspring of British convicts.

So you still carry that nasty brit teeth gene 🤮

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[–] wrecche (631) 4 years ago

I don't really care where you're from. Every nation has it's cunt. You're yours.

eat shit.

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[–] TheArgentinian (7059) 4 years ago

"This is a serious question"

That's an oxymoron.

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[–] fani (430) 4 years ago

It is a good show in typical good shows. Marvel and many others don't go for cheap Political Overcorrectness.

They just tell a good story with good actors. If they happen to be all white, so be it. All black, so be it. All brown, so be it. A mix of diff skin colors, so be it. etc.

The lone exception is the wretched modern Spiderman movies with their forced diversity and ultimate rubbish. Spiderman has been reduced to a doddering kid who calls his aunt May who is very young and flirty and god know what all is insinuated there along with Spiderman being not super and dependent on IronMan tech and IronMan bailing him out (first movie) and Happy being there (2nd movie) for no reason. His web fluid is not his but some Stark tech which runs out along with Edith and his silly glasses than apparently the bad guy can wear and command Edith as well.

Spiderman Homecoming and Far From Home were dismal PC diversity forced crap.

Outside this, Marvel has been excellent with casting and no one has cared about the points you listed because it is not in your face with an agenda. Like say Supergirl or Batgirl er... I mean Bat"woman" and others.

Casting diverse people isn't new. But it was never about shouting it out in your face and it was just there and people moved on because it was always about the story and show which was forefront, not the PC agenda. e.g. Star Trek. Look at Voyager - imo the best of the lot, had a female Captain, female Chief Engineer, female Astrophysicist 7of9, female powerful alien ally Kes, black Vulcan, Asian ensign and a native American first officer and female chief antagonist Borg Queen and none of it was forced or in your face or anything like that. Everyone had their jobs and they did it well as a unit. No one cared about showing strong females by making men extra weak or diverse characters. In fact they celebrated each other well. Why did it work then? Because they didn't put others down to show their strength. It stood on its own.

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[–] AP (5288) 4 years ago

Peter created his own webbing in the MCU.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

Thank you for your answer.

Marvel didn't use to go woke. In the first cycle there's some cringe moments, like the black viking in Valhalla, or the moment where Dr.Strange is walking in Katmandu (Nepal), with everybody around being Nepali, and then he's assaulted in a back alley by two thugs, one of them being... a caucasian white (what the odds, huh? 😂). But in general those moments were few and between.

However, Marvel is owned by Disney, and the new cycle looks like it's gonna be a different story. Perhaps Wandavision will be good enough (I hope). Perhaps they're gonna start non-woke to catch viewers and then increase the level of wokeness and end up preaching the woke gospel. I don't know. 90% of the new Marvel cycle looks like it's gonna be garbage. I have some hopes with Wandavision, Loki and the DrStrange sequel, though, but that's all.

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[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7699) 4 years ago

With what is revealed in episode 4 it makes sense why there is people of other races. I won't spoil it though.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

here's something that would probably grind your gears a bit.

it actually annoyed me a little.

in the most recent episode, someone speaks to kat denning's character as 'ms whatever her name is' and she quickly corrects him by saying 'doctor.'

i believe denning identified herself as an astro-physicist in a previous scene.

the underlying implication is that there's some sort of sexism in her not being addressed with that honorific. it's not said right out, but such things have been part of the conversation recently, specifically with women, even more specifically with the new first lady in the us.

personally i think phds who are not medical doctors that go around insisting that they be referred to by 'dr' are pretty much stomping around declaring 'do you know who i am?' & i think they should tamp their ego down by about 20%. but that's just me.

is that woke? i dunno. but i find it kinda annoying.

i'm enjoying the show quite a bit otherwise, though.

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[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7699) 4 years ago

What you just said reminds me of this scene from Ghostbusters.
Walter Peck: Are you Peter Venkman?
Peter Venkman: Yes I'm Doctor Venkman.
Walter Peck: Exactly what are you a doctor of Mr. Venkman?
Peter Venkman: I have PHDs in Parapsychology and psychology.
Walter Peck: I see. And now you catch ghosts.
Peter Venkman: You could say that.
Walter Peck: And how many ghosts have you caught, Mr. Venkman?

Yeah. Peck refuses to call Peter Doctor Venkman because he's a bigot who refuses to call anyone who is a doctor doctor if they aren't a medical doctor. Just made me think of that.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

i think it's a step too far to say that reserving 'dr' for MDs is bigoted.

there's no firm rule on this.

personally, i think someone who has a doctorate who insists on being referred to as dr might be a bit lacking in grace & tact.

in academic settings, it's absolutely appropriate for colleagues or students to refer to their prof as dr. outside of that setting, there's no set rule for such a thing, and personally i find it offputting, and not aligned with the way i think educated people should approach open, free societies.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

For a student, I find it more natural to address their professors as 'professor', but I don't think there's an established protocol.

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[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7699) 4 years ago

Well in the case of Ghostbusters Peter told him to call him Doctor Venkman and he refused. That's what caused all the crap to happen. Then again Peck isn't portrayed as a very good person when he accuses the ghostbusters of using nerve gas on people. And of course that's false and he has absolutely no evidence to back up his claims.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

Yeap, it's kind of picky.

I don't use 'doctor' in casual conversation unless it's a medical one. I think many people do the same. Other people don't. Not a big issue, anyway.

Was that scene woke? No idea. One simple way to measure wokeness is to check how accurate would be that scene. If that's how it used to be, it's not woke, it's just accurate.

Would most people in the 50s/60s refuse to address properly a woman because she was a woman? US used to be extremely meritocratic. Women did not use to pursue technical or scientific careers, but there was women who did and succeeded. Were these women refused to be addressed properly after they have succeeded in their field? Honestly, I don't know, but I find it difficult to believe with the society being so proud of its meritocracy.

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[–] raymondoz2007 (2098) 4 years ago

Colnel Sanders is his name. Call him Colnel!

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[–] Surpriseiiime (96) 4 years ago

This series is diverse af !... just need to throw in some LGBT characters and that would complete it!

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[–] Satan2016 (25525) 4 years ago

What To Expect When You’re Expecting Superheroes: A Guide To Billy And Tommy Maximoff
https://www.elle.com/culture/movies-tv/a35294397/wiccan-speed-billy-tommy-wandavision-children/

At this point, Billy and Tommy are leading members of the Young Avengers. Billy is one of the first gay characters in the Marvel universe, deeply in love with his team member Teddy Altman, aka the shape-shifting Hulkling.

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