MovieChat Forums > Star Trek: Picard (2020) Discussion > Why are we suppose to care about Picard'...

Why are we suppose to care about Picard's child life


It's been like 30yrs since Picard has been on ST:TNG, and all of a sudden someone thinks we now need a whole episode (and scenes in other episodes) of him playing hide-and-seek with his tormented mother. It just seems odd that a character as established as this has to all of a sudden be fleshed out. It's not like this show is gonna go on for many more years, or that anyone is gonna remember or care.

This season started out interesting enough, but went downhill with every episode. Whoever thought Alex Kurtzman was to man to give Star Trek to should be kicked in the ass. He hadn't done anything in the past that would make me think he'd be good for this. Good going Paramount. You've managed to totally wreck a great franchise.

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Why would you not? If you are a fan of TNG and it's characters, these characters, their lives, pain, etc. is exactly what you should care about.

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"If you are a fan of TNG and it's characters,"

No one above the age of 7 should say this.

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LOL, for once I agree with you.

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lol, I dont remember saying this, I think I stole that line from someone else.

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30yrs later? Seriously?

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Ok, and?

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Reviews of the episode this week agree with you saying the PACE of the show is interrupted each time that they insert flashbacks to his childhood (especially during a chase scene).

Ok. So what's happened so far? Picard seems to have blamed his father for being abusive to his mother, but then recalls how his mother was mentally ill and refused treatment???

Perhaps the SEASON FINALE will offer us some explanation as to the reason why we've explored PICARD's childhood this season???










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Sounds dreary. Trek is supposed to be optimistic and uplifting.

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If TREK was constantly OPTIMISTIC and UPLIFTING, we'd be dealing with a DISNEY MOVIE like POLLYANNA, where that character was the same way, but even she also ends up with something DREARY happening to her at the end of that story.

In other words, Stories always need something ANTAGONISTIC to happen to the PROTAGONIST in order to keep our attention and remain interesting.

I'm doing some research and here's what it has to say about PICARD's mother YVETTE:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Yvette_Picard

Yvette had a turbulent relationship with her husband Maurice, which proved a traumatic part of Jean-Luc's childhood memories. (PIC: "The Star Gazer") While Jean-Luc had long assumed this was merely due to abuse on the part of Maurice, he later realized that Yvette also suffered from severe mental illness that she refused to treat, and that Maurice handled poorly. (PIC: "Monsters") This struggle with mental illness would eventually lead Yvette to commit suicide in the 2310s, something which Jean-Luc blamed himself for. (PIC: "Hide and Seek")


Maybe by reading his family history we can figure out why we've been seeing flashbacks of his childhood???

It also says the NAZI's took over the place where he grew up and it remained empty after that for 100 years.

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The original Star Trek was uplifting and optimistic. (Also, Next Generation)

In context with the era, the 1960s was dealing with racism, sexism, the Cold War with the USSR, extreme global poverty, war, disease, new computer tech., etc.. This show was hopeful that our future would overcome these problems. That's why Trek shows a diverse cast including a Russian. Poverty, disease and war no longer exist on Earth. We even have an alliance with many extraterrestrials.

Conflict still exists, but the flawed groups are outside of the federation.

Let Earth stay positive and introduce the negative stuff, aka: conflict, as they explore distant planets. Keep Roddenberry's original vision.

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People tend to "OVER IDEALIZE" RODDENBERRY and his vision without being aware of what a MAJOR pain in the butt he could be:

https://www.thegamer.com/25-nifty-secrets-didnt-know-star-trek-next-generation/

25 Nifty Secrets You Didn't Know About Star Trek: The Next Generation

Star Trek is known for its amazing character relationships and interesting storylines. It's also pretty dark at times.

Here are 25 Dark Secrets!

Roddenberry wanted Deanna Troi to also stand out in another, more provocative fashion. He felt that Betazoid women should have four parts to their chest instead of two, not only adding to her appeal, but also signifying that she is an alien. Fortunately, veteran Star Trek writer D.C. Fontana shot down the impracticality of Roddenberry’s idea.

Of course, this would have also detracted from Troi’s effectiveness as a counselor, which was already a revolutionary idea at the time. The counselor stayed the way she was and went on to become an invaluable member of the crew and a deeply memorable character.

Gene Roddenberry initially rejected Patrick Stewart for the role of Jean-Luc Picard because he was bald

While widely praised as a visionary of his time, Gene Roddenberry also acquired another, less respectable reputation: he was very, very difficult to work with. Specifically, he was known as an extreme control freak when it came to his ideas. Everything had to be done in a very particular way. He regularly entered interpersonal conflicts with the crew of the show and would often double back on his previous preferences for what would occur on air. It didn’t help matters that attending so many fan conventions for Star Trek had padded Roddenberry’s ego to the point where he knew he was a visionary. Among the many difficult things Roddenberry did to have his own way on The Next Generation, nothing was more severe than his attorney, Leonard Maizlish.

It is no secret that Gene Roddenberry was a heavy drinker and habitual user of many illicit substances. He was also an avid stimulant user to stay awake while working on scripts. While Star Trek: The Next Generation was in full swing, Roddenberry’s health eventually took him out of the picture. It was clear that his health decline would prohibit much of the work necessitated by a showrunner. Michael Piller and Rick Berman eventually replaced Roddenberry to close out the series. He suffered a stroke in 1989 and was bound to the use of a wheelchair until his passing on October 24th, 1991 at the age of 70.

The Best of Both Worlds,” Captain Picard is transformed into Locutus of Borg, an intermediary member of the Collective. This episode was directly possible due to Roddenberry’s inability to maintain power over the show due to his ailing health. By championing the Humanist philosophy for The Next Generation, it went against Roddenberry’s core rule set to make a villain out of one of the regular cast. Despite this, “The Best of Both Worlds” is now looked upon as a turning point in the series’ overall character development and writing.

There was a serious issue on The Next Generation as it related to the writers who worked tirelessly to bring Roddenberry’s vision of the future to life. By the end of the third season, 24 writers had quit the show because they had to deal with Roddenberry

The Next Generation featured a grand total of 155 writers (including freelancers) over the course of the seven-season run of 198 episodes. The notion that TNG was solely credited to the singular vision of its creator is preposterous.

He initially wanted no part of it (TNG).


So now the conversation has also SHIFTED from the CHILDHOOD of PICARD over to the life of RODDENBERRY???

🧐



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A hatchet piece from a blogger who didn't know Roddenberry. His personality is irrelevant to me. The final Trek product was innovative and courageous during the 60s when casts were white-only and sci-fi showed dismal futures. He had to fight to get a black person to be on the Bridge. A woman as second-in-command wasn't acceptable so ended up being ditched. It's hard to be a trailblazer which is the reason I respect them.

Series like Trek use different writers and directors.

re: Locutis. That was only a temporary change. Kirk became a villain in an episode when he tried to rape a woman. Temporary wouldn't be in conflict with GRs edict.

That's not true about GR not wanting to be a part of TNG. He was excited about another chance at a Trek series. Syndication allowed him to do sci-fi which is more of a niche market as well as have more creative control whereas networks didn't. The more passive Picard and blind Geordi were his ideas. It's also normal for creative people to toss many if not most ideas before the final product is finished. That's the reason why I emphasize the importance of the Final Product.

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Roddenberry wanted Deanna Troi to also stand out in another, more provocative fashion. He felt that Betazoid women should have four parts to their chest instead of two, not only adding to her appeal, but also signifying that she is an alien. Fortunately, veteran Star Trek writer D.C. Fontana shot down the impracticality of Roddenberry’s idea.

Of course, this would have also detracted from Troi’s effectiveness as a counselor,


What about the way he wanted Deanna to have 4 Breasts? Do you think that was a good idea? And what about the MINI SKIRTS he had the women wearing in TOS? Don't you also think that was SEXIST and unnecessary?

At least in STRANGE NEW WORLDS (which begins in 5 more days on MAY 5TH) the women wore DARK TIGHTS under those SHORT SKIRTS in ST: DISCOVERY:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEdXDXBxcwE

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds - Official Trailer (2022) Ethan Peck, Anson Mount, Rebecca Romijn


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Like I said, toying with many ideas is part of the creative process. It's also a good idea to get feedback from others because a creator can become too close to their work. GR did that.

Sexism was very apparent in TOS. Not only the micro minis, but serial sexual predator Kirk and certain jobs they had. GR fixed that in the Motion Picture and TNG. We get to see Picard in a dress, too!

Unfortunately, women are expected to sexually appeal to men in sci-fi. They put Seven of Nine in a tight sweater which was also offensive.

GR had Majel Barret in pants in the original pilot so the objectification of women could have been the network's idea. Don't know.

At least the computer's voice in TOS was female which showed some progress.

I bet you weren't expecting me to agree with you. : )

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You're right having someone agree with someone else these days has become a VERY RARE OCCURENCE. 😊😊😊

POOR Seven was wearing more than just a TIGHT SWEATER. She wore a CORSET that was so TIGHT she could barely breathe, and she also had to have someone help her get out of it each time she needed to use the bathroom.

https://trekmovie.com/2012/04/11/jeri-ryan-talks-sevens-arc-and-corset-breast-mounds/

Actress Jeri Ryan spent four years in the Delta Quadrant on Star Trek: Voyager. In a new interview the actress says she is happy about her time on the show and with the character, but she doesn’t miss her costume. She even goes into some detail on some her corset’s painful functionality.

https://www.thegeektwins.com/2014/11/5-horrifying-facts-about-seven-of-nines.html

it was so tight, she had trouble breathing. It got so bad that they had nurses on the set with oxygen tanks. "It was so tight originally that I passed out four times," Ryan told USA Today in 1997. "They would bring nurses to the set with oxygen, and I wouldn't say anything. But after the fourth time passing out, I spoke up."

the worst part is Ryan couldn't take off the costume without help. That meant bathroom breaks were an ordeal so bad that they had to shut down the set. She said, "If I had to go to the bathroom it was a 20-minute production shutdown."

"Forget vanity, throw vanity to the wind!" Ryan recalled. "And you can forget anything about privacy because it ain't gonna happen. Anytime I have to go to the bathroom, everybody has to know about it. It's announced over the P.A. system, because production stops for a half-hour. 'We can't roll a shot. Jeri's not here.' 'Why not, where's Jeri?' 'Jeri has to go 10-100.' It's just a whole procedure."


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cd/22/5d/cd225d8a48a190cba28daa387430d392.jpg

And RODDENBERRY doesn't get the blame for this due to the way a part of him was already floating around out in space along with Carl Sagan when VOYAGER was made.

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I didn't know she wore a corset. It was about getting better ratings. At least she complained and the costume was changed. Troi and T'Pol were exploited, too.
https://screenrant.com/star-trek-voyager-bodysuit-costume-change-why/

Strange New Worlds looks good

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This SNW captain was very popular with fans of TOS when he was on the ST: DISCOVERY (which is how he got his own show).

But since we also know his TIME is limited before he becomes SEVERELY DISABLED, the TIME FRAME in which to tell his story could also be LIMITED as well (unless he gets another TIME CRYSTAL from the KLINGONS again ... which enables his ship to also TIME TRAVEL as well like the DISCOVERY has done).

And GEORGIOU is also getting her own show as well which will be called SECTION 31.

PLUS there's going to be another new TREK SHOW called ST: ACADEMY where we'll also find TILLY from ST: DISCOVERY busy teaching the new cadets.

And here's a LINK where you can read about these 3 NEW TREK SHOWS:

https://moviechat.org/tt8806524/Star-Trek-Picard/62570dc0497e7f775d9e7f76/Picard-ends-with-Season-3-Strange-New-Worlds-Section-31-ST-Academy

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I see they're milking it a bit. LOL!

GRs son Rod Roddenberry is directly involved in many of these series. This is a good article about my prior complaint re: optimism. It says Strange New Worlds will be more like the original by showing optimism and hope. It appears they believe that's what people want to see now after dealing with the pandemic. I think the show may also deal with social issues like the original. Finally!
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/01/entertainment/star-trek-strange-new-worlds-blake-cec/index.html

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Thanks for the article. Great Stuff!!

The new show, one of many "Star Trek" spinoffs, has been billed as a return to the optimism and romanticism of the original series, which ran from 1966-69.

Such a idealistic worldview may be a tough sell to today's audiences, battered by hateful politics, violence, war and dire warnings about a rapidly warming planet. But it's a change that Roddenberry, an executive producer with the new show, applauds.

Will Star Trek's optimism and emphasis on inclusivity feel outdated in today's cynical world?

We were at war," he says of the US's involvement in Vietnam. "The civil rights movement was still in its own intense moment of conflict. Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. were killed, not to mention the looming nuclear threat. The country was quite factionalized. The '60s were a tumultuous time."

Strange New Worlds" will reveal whether that vision still resonates with people, or whether the barriers of cynicism and hate are now too high for even the USS Enterprise to steer through.


The problem is how the 60's were full of IDEALISTIC ANTI WAR HIPPIES or ANTI ESTABLISMENT FLOWER CHILDREN who were the one's with the OPTIMISM. But they turned into YUPPIES, who went in pursuit of MONEY (just like their parents did before them).

So where's the MODERN DAY version of these former HIPPIES who had PEACEFUL PROTESTS and SIT INS as a way to protest against the VIET NAM WAR??? What we seem to have instead are VIOLENT PROTESTORS full of HATE from reading MISINFORMATION on FACE BOOK, who tried to HANG MIKE PENCE and kill other members of CONGRESS. And this could be one reason why the show may not work, because you have a completely different society now that's into reading CONSPIRACY THEORIES and joining CULTS that are dedicated to them.

PLUS you also have an audience that BINGE WATCHES shows, which today tend to be in an ONGOING ARC FORMAT (like reading chapters in a BOOK), whereas this other EPISODIC FORMAT that SNW will have may not appeal to the more CONTEMPORARY TASTE of the viewing public.

Anyhow, since the OPTIMISM and ROMANTICISM of the 60's doesn't EXIST anymore, it will definitely be interesting to see if this show appeals to today's audience or not. My guess would be those who spend most of their time ATTACKING and BASHING the NEW TREK SHOWS online will also continue to keep doing the same for this other more HOPEFUL version.

Because THE ORVILLE was also a TREK-like show that had the same kind of IDEALISM and OPTIMISM. But that show also didn't work out for some of us (due to the way it went OFF the AIR from a REGULAR NETWORK channel and also became a STREAMING PAY CHANNEL where most people who can't afford it now don't watch it anymore).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpg6VwO90kk

And,, imo, that's also a part of the reason for the SUCCESS of the OLDER TREK SHOWS ... was because one could watch them on the REGULAR TV CHANNELS which were available to "MOST people" ... whereas today you're required to watch the NEWER SHOWS on the PAY TV CHANNELS (which means only a small fraction of people get to see them).




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You're welcome. Upon rereading the section you pasted, the author doesn't realize the 60s were very turbulent with many existing problems, but young idealistic people were trying to fix them.

Those 60s protest weren't all peaceful. There were plenty of riots, violence and assassinations. Violence happens because the state strikes back hard to maintain the status quo.

Those young people in the 50s-70s drastically changed society.

But, social change is usually a young person's game and now it's another generation's turn. We saw some activism with Occupy Wall Street, George Floyd marches, BLM and Antifa, climate change, Parkland students and anti-book ban activism. They tend to be left-wing like the 60s hippies and want to change the status quo. The problem is that they don't appear to know how. Marches aren't enough and persistence is important.

The Jan. 6 mob and other conspiracy theorists want to reverse the 60s changes. They're older than the aforementioned group, insecure and afraid which is why they can be easily manipulated with political scare tactics and mudslinging. I don't believe they should watch Trek since the show isn't for them, anyway.

Most younger people are liberal which tends to be the targeted audience of a Trek show.

I'm a huge fan of the Orville. If people had refused to pay for streaming, those shows would have remained free.

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The filming of THE ORIVILLE got shut down because of COVID (just like the case was with WESTWORLD), which is why it's taken so long for both shows to air their next season.

As for people paying for the streaming service to see TO, since it has yet to air on it's streaming service, there's probably also no way to reach a conclusion yet about the success of the show remaining free or not???

I'm also curious to see how the child of the couple who hatched it when it was an EGG turns out. One parent wanted her to remain a female; the other insisted she become a male.

Then they also found a planet full of females of their SPECIES who rebelled and had refused to be made into males when they were born.

That was also funny when the character got addicted to pornography and rejected being intimate with his mate (due to their disagreement over having the sex change for their child).

2 days left to go until the SEASON FINALE of PICARD & the start of STRANGE NEW WORLDS.

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I meant all the newer streaming services like Disney+, AMC+, Paramount+, etc.. It only leads to more shows with fees like Discovery which used to be free on CBS.

Orville premieres June 2. I hope they have many more seasons.

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Yes that's the point is how MOST PEOPLE can't afford to pay for HULU (to watch the ORVILLE), and pay still more FEES to watch PICARD (DIS/STW/ACADEMY/SEC 31 etc), or pay still other fees to other services to watch other shows.

Anyhow both PICARD and The BORG QUEEN (who have BOTH been REJECTING LOVE) also seem to have learned some lessons about LOVE:

AGNES to BORG QUEEN:

IMAGINE members who would fight harder for what they chose ... who would lose no battles because they made no ENEMIES ... who would not be DISCARDED and REPLACED ... ATTACHMENTS could grow and DEEPEN ...

like SEVEN ... didn't you once LOVE her too???

And wasn't she the BEST of what we could be???

Somebody who used her BORG HALF to serve the best of humanity

Let's build a UNIVERSE of SEVEN'S

Let's start with this one.


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So ... Getting back to your ORIGINAL QUESTION:

Why are we suppose to care about Picard's child life


MY BET is S3 is going to END with a WEDDING where PICARD marries BEVERLY (because of the way the DEMONS he FEARED from his CHILDHOOD MEMORIES have been PURGED this season).

🚀


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I just fast forward the flashback scenes in Picard's childhood. As far as I'm concerned, none of that is canon and there is ZERO indication of any of that kind of childhood in Picard's life throughout all 7 seasons of TNG, Generations, First Contact, Insurrection, Nemesis, and the pilot episode of Deep Space Nine.

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That episode 7 was painful to get through! It made Discovery look good by comparison!

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And when you consider how bad Discovery is, that says a lot.

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It's not just one episode, it's multiple episodes of his mom and himself with a traumatized life as a kid. None of this was ever shown before until Picard came around. It's like they wanted to make him a weakling or show he had a bad upbringing or his childhood was messed up which doesn't seem to fit with his persona in TNG.

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So, if these are really Picard's childhood memories, where the hell is his brother Robert? Just like they never bother to mention Lal or Lore from Data's past, seems they've brushed aside Robert as well.

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I also wondered about his brother. I suppose he could have been several years older and away at university or something.

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