You maniacs! You blew it up! Aw damn you! God damn you all to hell!
I don't mind having Vader appear and even being active in the show. What I'm disappointed with is him meeting Obi-Wan face-to-face and engaging in battle. Disney just blew a Sea of Tranquillity-sized plot hole into the Star Wars canon. And it was totally unnecessary.
The thing is the not only did they do it - they completely screwed it into the ground.
Not only was the "at last we meet again" thrown out the window but so too was the "I was but a learner". The second part was all the more laughable because Vader absolutely beat him quite literally into the ground!
(But then just decided to leave him or something? What exactly was supposed to be going on there??!)
What a joke...
It was an absolutely terrible scene in every way, just really stupid.
shareThe 'I was but a learner' is not necessarily thrown out the window. We're on ep3, there are 3 more eps to go. The Obi Wan we see hasn't used the force in 10 years and has ptsd. So we still have 3 eps to see if this changes. I think we should reserve judgement until the end.
shareYeah but the problem is that Darth comprehensively beat him THIS time.
Therefore, even if they meet again, as they predictably will, with Rocky, sorry Obi-Wan getting up, the circle is not complete. Maybe a double circle though!
I didn't really see it that way. It looked like Vader beat a sick man and anyone competitive will not consider that a real fight. You want your opponent to be ready and in their peak when you battle so that the defeat is satisfying. Even in ep4, Obi Wan wasn't defeated, he allowed himself to die so he still was the master over Vader. Vader was wong when he made that statement.
shareIf you're referring to:
I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner. Now, I am the master.
Apologist nonsense. It's VERY clear A New Hope was the first time they saw each other since THEEEEE FIGHT.
shareNo just puzzling through it logically as a casual fan, so perhaps there's information elsewhere I'm not aware of or have insight into. But when I rewatch either fight I don't get that surefire connection at all, and I don't understand how anyone does.
In other words I completely disagree that "'its VERY clear A New Hope was the first time they saw each other since THEEEEE FIGHT". It's not clear at all, not without assumptions and preconceptions creatively assigned by the viewer who concocts a connection. There's no dialogue that suggests this in that scene. Especially since A New Hope was written 45 years ago.
I don't see any evidence for the conclusion that the Mustafar fight is specifically referred to in A New Hope.
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Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.
You are 100% kuatorises.
shareWhy yes, I am 100% kuatorises.
shareLOL. Yeah that would be weird if you were only 87.249% kuatorises. Maybe 10% Bob, and the remainder just filler?
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Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.
His response is one of the best typos I've ever seen.
shareYou have very valid argument for the continuity not being trashed. It really takes some of the sting out of my disappointment because of its plausibility. But why wasn't the circle completed with this meeting?
share:) appreciate the willingness to consider other possibilities. I'd speculate that he didn't consider the circle complete with this meeting because he doesn't yet consider himself "the master" (despite the fact he just kicked Obi Wan's ass). Consider the words he said in A New Hope: "The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner. Now, I am the master." In other words it's not until that final fateful confrontation that Vader considers himself worthy, and perhaps emotionally ready, to finally finish off his old master. But there's three episodes left to go, so we'll have to see how that shakes out. It may shed more light on things.
Or, it might step all over itself and shit the bed. Who knows?
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Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.
I totally agree. If anything, this makes their encounter in ANH make more sense.
Obi Wan wasn’t shocked to see Vader in an armor suit in ANH. He was just like, “yeah, I know you are a metal monster, let’s get this over with.”
The encounter we saw in this series made more sense as a first encounter after Mustafar.
Obi Wan wasn’t shocked to see Vader in an armor suit in ANH
I'm on board with this as well after watching Ep. III of this series. Obi-Wan wasn't surprised on the Death Star in ANH. Seems like he knew who and WHAT Vader is. I see both points of the argument but I think Boricanator and warrior-poet make sense. There's still three more episodes, so who knows where this goes at this point... ?
shareI'd bet real money that there's a confrontation between the two at the season finale or the show's finale, whichever comes first. And that it's a draw, Obi-Wan gets away with a clever trick before either is killed, and Vader says something cheesy like "I still have something to learn from my old master...".
It's the old law of playwriting: "If you introduce a gun (or a Vader) in the first act, you must use it in the third".
^ 100% this
In fact Obi-Wan might even beat Vader and in his rage at allowing himself to be defeated again he might kill the Inquisitors and have a rampage Rogue One style.
Well, if Obi-Wan beats Vader by slicing off his cybernetic feet or something, I'd still call that a draw!
But I really can't see Obi-Wan letting himself have a rage-fueled killing rampage, I don't think that's something he could live with, even if his victims were his enemies. For one thing, in AOTC it it's canonically established that killing enemies in a rage-fueled rampage is not the Jedi way, it's considered to be a bad thing that leaves you fucked-up and guilt-ridden. And ten years later Obi-Wan didn't seem fucked-up and guilt-ridden, he's mellow and focused on the present, he's completely ready to become One With The Force without seeming to be weary of life, etc. Sure, he lies about the past to Luke, but well, even he can see that Luke is a bit dim and it would be a bad idea to hit him with any complex ideas.
While Obi-Wan does seem to regain his confidence by Star Wars '77 there is little indication that he even achieved fighting parity with Vader again, based on Vader's force powers displayed in SW '77 and '80.
shareMaybe, but Obi-Wan was able to best Darth Maul again in Star Wars Rebels. I think he could still hold his own against Vader.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeG215-yu-k
My bad I should have made that clearer I meant Vader would go on a rage-fuelled killing rampage if Obi-Wan bettered him again in a duel and then was able to escape Vader once again.
Vader seems so revenge fueled against Obi-Wan in the latest episode that I can just see him snapping and killing some Inquisitors or some Imperial officers or something in a moment of rage.
My bad, sorry I misunderstood!
Because yeah, Vader would totally go on a killing rampage if Kenobi bested him somehow, and wouldn't care if it was innocent civilians or Imperial officers he was killing. I'm sure he finds reasons to do so regularly, killing rages keep him firmly in touch with the Dark Side, and terrorize populations into submission. It'd be a win-win for him.
Two meetings..... great.
shareI don't mind Vader and Obi-Wan meeting and having a duel or whatever, the continuity has never been the strongest aspect of Star Wars, heck even in the original trilogy Luke has a crush on his own sister, George has an imagination but he never thought too far ahead.
What I have a problem with though is just how terrible the writing on this show can be at times. Obi-Wan getting his ass kicked by Vader and then getting saved by some fire and that slow moving droid (that Vader could have easily crushed with the force) is laughably bad.
Outside of that though I liked the episode and I think this was easily the best one yet.
What I noticed is that Vader caused fire with his lightsaber and then extinguished it with the force. But he didn't extinguish the fire caused by the explosion. I know he likes to play with his food, but this is pushing it.
shareYeah it was a daft way to have Obi-Wan escape, quite sloppy writing and should have been handled better.
share
The continuity could (and I believe will be) preserved if, by the end of this series, Obi Wan wipes the floor with Vader.
Obviously, Obi-Wan ep.3 can't be the last time they meet before "New Hope." It's clearly a set-up for a later confrontation. As long Vader learns that, yes, Obi-Wan is STILL the "master," the line in "New Hope" still works.
You could argue that the continuity of that line was already broken in the prequels anyway.
Anakin was hardly but a learner by the end of ROTS.
Was it just me, or did the whole thing feel... off? Weird? Lore-breaking aside, the scene felt cheaply shot, there was nothing grand about it, like they didn't even try. Vader showing up in Rogue One felt like a big deal, but his (premature) reunion with Obi-Wan looked like a bad fan film.
The original reunion in A New Hope had an eerie feeling, even before you found out they knew each other, it was ominous and unsettling, not to mention the setting was better. Hell, the fan-made version of their fight in A New Hope had more effort put into it, from the fight choreography to the music to the overall umph of the scene.
Because it was off. It was cheap. Nothing special about it at all. It feels like fan fiction.
sharethe scene felt cheaply shot
Was it just me, or did the whole thing feel... off? Weird? Lore-breaking aside, the scene felt cheaply shot, there was nothing grand about it, like they didn't even try. Vader showing up in Rogue One felt like a big deal, but his (premature) reunion with Obi-Wan looked like a bad fan film.
I don't know if I'd say uncomfortable, because it IS just a TV show after all, but yeah. You're watching it and the whole time you just feel like, "Yeah....this didn't happen. This is made up. Not a part of the real/original story." I actually liked the first two episodes, but the longer Leia is with him the more and more I get that feeling. And don't even get me started on Obi Wan and Vader fighting. Sorry, but no. Never happened.
shareYeah it was missing a good fight choreographer definitely. It also wasn't a very visually exciting location for a duel either. It was definitely underwhelming and I hope the next duel makes up for it.
shareElaborate on that... what plot hole are you imagining?
shareI’m not hating Obi-Wan and Vader meeting as much as I thought, and they’re obviously going to meet again in this series.
I think what could really make me forgive this retcon is, in their next meeting, Obi-Wan pwns Vader, shows he truly is “the Master” while addressing Anakin as “Darth”….