MovieChat Forums > The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (2022) Discussion > Why don't Woke-Washers do like Akira Kur...

Why don't Woke-Washers do like Akira Kurosawa did?


He took Shakespearean plays like Macbeth and King Lear and completely converted the stories to a Medieval Japanese setting and created the masterpieces, Throne of Blood and Ran. Nobody thinks of this as Woke, because it isn't. It was simply an adaption of the material to Kurosawa's own culture.

He DID NOT just throw a whole pile of people of color into a Medieval European-inspired setting to create a ludicrous, unbelievable hodge-podge.

If Wokey-type people wanted a Tolkien epic with people of color all over the place, why didn't they translate the story to an African or Asian-inspired setting?

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If Wokey-type people wanted a Tolkien epic with people of color all over the place, why didn't they translate the story to an African or Asian-inspired setting?

That would actually be interesting, and something which might entice me to watch this series - in spite of them not having the rights to the Silmarillion.

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The short answer?
Akira Kurosawa was a genius and these folks are talentless hacks who think in clichés and slogans.

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Except that this is a Second Age story, which was largely inspired by the rise and fall of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire conquered many nations, and made citizens of people of many ethnicities, races, nationalities, and colors, and was what we today call diverse.

Imagining Numenor being as diverse as Rome isn't woke-washing, it's good sense. The only people who can't see it are those who cling to their vision of an all-white world, and news flash guys - the world was *never* all-white.

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No. Tolkien wrote that Numenor was his take on the Atlantis myth.
He'd believed England didn't have a proper grand mythology of its own. And he set out to create just that based on North European sagas, legends and myths.

It still leaves more than a half of the continent populated with other ethnicities and races - enough for a thousand movies and TV shows. Have at it!

Or if you simply cannot live without injecting your ideology everywhere at least do it right:
There were dark skinned citizens of the Lake city in the Hobbit movies. And why not? It's a major trading hub. You get merchants and sailors from all over - and over time some might stay or leave their issue behind.
There was a black Gondorian officer in the Shadow of War game - perfectly and believably explained.

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No, Numenor was largely inspired by Rome, and the Third Age was largely based on post-Roman Europe. The people of the Dark Ages and Middle Ages lived among reminds of the empire that had once been, lived among buildings, roads, and aqueducts that were still standing long after the empire that built them was gone, and to the people of the Dark Ages the aqueducts must have looked as mysterious and magical as Orthanc looked to the hobbits and Rohirrim.

Yeah, there was a bit of Atlantis mixed into the Alkallabeth as well, obviously, but since nobody knows anything about Atlantean culture, Tolkien had to use other sources to flesh out the story of Numenor. His real job was the study of Dark Ages languages and culture, which was very much shaped by Rome and its fall, so that seems to have been a primary source.

And at least, none of you twats have even tried to claim that Roman society didn't become very diverse.

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You gonna have to break out your Ouija board and take it with the Professor. I'm sure you know better than what he himself wrote though.

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No, I just know better than you.

Now fuck off, you and your racist pals aren't worth my time.

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This is a pattern with you. You reply to someone, they counter what you say, you get upset and start with the name-calling, before finally deciding they're not worth your time. And you have yet to make any of your vapid accusations stick.

Now, I know that papamihel is a dick, from exchanges elsewhere, but he hasn't been one here. Only you have.

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[Middle Finger]

Yes, it's a pattern, because to debate someone is to take them seriously. Racists should never be taken seriously by anyone except the FBI, and don't deserve the time and attention of decent people. All you lot deserve is contempt and shunning.

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So you're just throwing out random accusations of racism in order to have an excuse not to address their points?

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Sweetie, anyone who complains about diversity in casting IS a racist.

Yes, it's that simple. Now fuck off, racist.

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Sweetie, anyone who complains about diversity in casting IS a racist.

No, that's not how it works. Racism is if you have prejudices against people because of their ethnicity, if you think some racial groups are better or worse than others. If such reasons lie behind complaints of diversity, then you can call them racist. But such is not the case here.

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I wonder if Otter would complain if people said to leave POC mythologies and folklore alone?

Would he support representation of all races in Journey to the West? News flash: the world was never all-Chinese.
What about Avatar: The Last Airbender’s movie adaptation? Is it racist to hate it now?
Should Wakanda be a melting pot of races? News flash: the world was never all-black.

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Hell, let's mess with Roots. It's unfair that Native Americans, Asians, Indians, Maori and, of course, blacks don't get any representation at all among the plantation owners.

"But that's history!"

No, it isn't. The TV series was based on a novel which was a plagiarised work, taken from Courlander's fictional novel The African. So it's fiction. Diversifying slaves and masters and claiming faithfulness to the book is just as valid as, say, making a series set in the Second Age of Middle Earth without having the rights to the relevant source material, and without caring about Tolkien's own descriptions, and yet claiming with a straight face they're being faithful.

But even if it were history, so what? History has never been sacred in Hollywood. Braveheart, for example, played extremely loose with the facts, and yet claimed from the very beginning to be the real history. Now, I get to complain about that, because I actually care about being faithful to the source material. But Otter would have to shut his pie hole - he can't have it both ways.

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Except that this is a Second Age story, which was largely inspired by the rise and fall of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire conquered many nations, and made citizens of people of many ethnicities, races, nationalities, and colors, and was what we today call diverse.

Not what we call diverse today, no. When we speak of diversity, we're actually talking about a diverse society - but the Roman Empire was not particularly diverse in this regard. There wasn't much migration until at the very end of the Roman empire, when it had become less stable - and numerous invasions and subsequent waves of migration caused the Western Roman Empire to crumble and split up (the Migration Period, c. 400-600). Before that time, the Roman Empire consisted of several ethnically homogenous regions, with very little cultural exchange between them. Some places enjoyed more cultural exchange than others, but it wasn't a melting pot. And this is exactly what Tolkien described: most regions of Middle Earth are culturally self-contained, with some places having people of mixed backgrounds - eg. the city of Bree, the Corsairs etc. But for the most part, you can certainly say that "these guys are like this, and those guys are like that".

Imagining Numenor being as diverse as Rome isn't woke-washing, it's good sense.

No, it isn't. For one thing, like I said, Rome was never diverse in the sense that this series will be diverse. But more importantly, Tolkien described exactly in what ways some regions were diverse. Numenor, for example, was home to the Dunedain and the Druedain - two distinct and separate races. You won't find Dunlendings, Gondorians, Rohirrim or Easterlings - or their descendants - residing there. Now, you will find Dunedain spread across the realm, but this was a one-way exchange.

So when you view the entire universe of Middle Earth, yes it is a very diverse bunch that lives there. But individual groups are not diverse - with some notable exceptions.

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